Tougher Body Style

hendlerj · Jan 1, 2010

I love the Treg. I am on my third one.

I am saddened to see it slowly disappearing from the VW offering. No more v8. No more v10. No more marketing.

I am told that the American market is not willing to pay the price for a VW badge, so they are yielding this market to the Audi Q7. It all goes to the same bottom line, so maybe corporate doesn't care.

I have an idea though, to double or triple Treg sales without detracting from Q7 sales.

A few days ago, I bought a true clunker: a 1991 Toyota 4Runner with 186,000 miles on it for $1,700. I bought it to leave in Vermont at our ski house so the Treg could come back to VA with me.

I jokingly sent pics out to some friends to show them my new car.

I was astounded at how many guy friends said something like, "It's by time you got a man's car."

Everyone on this website knows how much the Treg can do. We all know we'd rather be driving a Treg with 350 horses than a 4Runner with 150 horses (in 1991 - so maybe half are still running).

But the American male public doesn't know what the Treg has!

If VW were to put on it a super tough looking body (Gwagen, Land Rover Defender, or even Treg Baja Rally body) and then market the heck out of it, I think sales would double or triple.

If anyone has the ear of anyone at corporate, please let them know.

I would love to see the Treg become the best selling SUV in America!

chesters · Jan 1, 2010

No leave it alone, i'd hate the Treg to become the best selling SUV in America not because am British, but because then they would become so mainstream that they would loose there Kudos and individuality, its nice to drive something alittle bit upper market that half the population on America doesnt.

Lets keep the treg's abillites our sercret

Yeti · Jan 2, 2010

chesters said:
No leave it alone, i'd hate the Treg to become the best selling SUV in America not because am British, but because then they would become so mainstream that they would loose there Kudos and individuality, its nice to drive something alittle bit upper market that half the population on America doesnt.

Lets keep the treg's abillites our sercret

I agree totally other then the fact that the next gen Treg is going to be more or less a worthless cross over like other stuff out there. I am glad I bought my 2010 TDI since it may be the last year to get a off road worthy Touareg anymore. The Q7 is marketed a whole lot different then the Treg. It was never intended to go off road, but just to be an upscale soccer mom vehical.

canon_mutant · Jan 2, 2010

I just wish they would test the waters with the new model.

Offer the base Tiguan big-brother crossover.

And then offer the ability to upgrade it to a "real" SUV with appropriate offroad packages for those that want them.

4motion => 4Xmotion
springs => air

See what percentage of sales they get.

Then there's always a Touareg [Porsche Transyberian model]. I would seriously consider a TDI version of that.

Like, Yeti said though, I too am glad -thrilled I got my 2010 because IMO the offroad Touareg is about to die. RIP. We offroaders are a dying breed.

volkswagendude · Jan 2, 2010

chesters said:
No leave it alone, i'd hate the Treg to become the best selling SUV in America not because am British, but because then they would become so mainstream that they would loose there Kudos and individuality, its nice to drive something alittle bit upper market that half the population on America doesnt.

Lets keep the treg's abillites our sercret

My sentiments also.

canon_mutant · Jan 3, 2010

I don't necessarily want it to be the best selling SUV in America, I just want it to be successful enough to stay around. Despite how "we" may feel about it, the Touareg has not hardly been a success story here in the US. However, if success means just another grocery getter without any upgradable options to make it a real SUV, forget it.

nickm · Jan 3, 2010

It would never have been a best seller at the price bracket this vehicle is in..heck you can pick up a domestic or japanese SUV for less than 1/2 what the Treg costs. Body styling has never been a weak point of the Treg so I doubt a "tougher" body style would do anything...I don't know how anyone could consider the 4runner tough or manly anyways. If you are having penis length issues then hey..you buy an F350 dually diesel, not a 4runner.

As far as the Treg's success is concerned, they've sold well over 400,000 of them worldwide, so its not a flop...and if you pull a GM and group the Cayenne, Q7 and Treg together, then its one of the most successful high end SUV platforms in the North American marketplace..and likely the best selling high end SUV platform worldwide

VW just needs to figure out where they sit in the marketplace (more so in the US than Canada)..there's a loyal following that sees them as excellent vehicles, right up there with BMW and MB but at a value price (kinda), but anyone else thinks VW sits somewhere around KIA in terms of price and capability....even amongst this group 1/2 the people think vehicles like the Jetta or GTI are pieces of crap, when the reality is they offer far better value and driving experience than a base 3 series or C class.

Yeti · Jan 3, 2010

nickm said:
VW just needs to figure out where they sit in the marketplace (more so in the US than Canada)..there's a loyal following that sees them as excellent vehicles, right up there with BMW and MB but at a value price (kinda), but anyone else thinks VW sits somewhere around KIA in terms of price and capability....even amongst this group 1/2 the people think vehicles like the Jetta or GTI are pieces of crap, when the reality is they offer far better value and driving experience than a base 3 series or C class.

You are totally right on that last part. Most see the older VW stuff and right away they think junk and will not even consider buying a new one. Hell, after having my 04 that is the reason we went and purchased the Passat. Wife really wanted a new GTI, but at the time it was not in the budget. I was a Ford guy for years and still some day want my Shelby Mustang Convertible, but I really like my Dubs. So far all three have been really good to me and I read up on the possible issues the Passat could have so I know what to look for. From what I read even on the Passat if you maintain it well it should treat you very well also. The US Dealerships really need to step up on their service though. I really hate the fact how they try to pass off issues as normal or the dreaded could not duplicate response you get from most of them. Straighten that out and I believe VW could be as good as any other brand.

Rickanns · Jan 3, 2010

In this part of the country, SUV's are king ever since the Suburban was introduced. You would be amazed at the numbers of MB's, X3 and X5s, Escalades, Lincolns (including their high end pickup), and Lexus Suv's that you would see around here not to mention Suburbans, Denali's, Tahoe's, Yukons, Expeditions etc. All the MB's, BMW's, Caddies, and Lexus come out of one luxury dealer. These guys have built their business on the high end market and service and do very well with it.

The VW dealer has always tended to the less expensive, less demanding(?) market. When the Touareg and Phaeton came out, they tried to move up their service level to match the cost of the Touareg but didn't even try for the Phaeton market. They did an extremely poor job marketing the Treg here, and of course, didn't dent the luxury market here. Shame! The service went well for a year of so, then they started degrading the levels, They cut loaners and I think that I am the only guy who can get a rental now(if they keep Treg overnight). Bear in mind that there are probably less than a dozen Touaregs in Lubbock, if that many.

Now that VW has basically stripped the high end out of the Touareg, I think it is dead meat sooner or later. What a shame!

The trouble for me is that there is nothing out there that gives me what the Touareg has....luxury, off-road, and towing. I guess I am just a wierd duck!( Like nobody knows that)

Rick

Yeti · Jan 3, 2010

Rickanns said:
I guess I am just a wierd duck!( Like nobody knows that)

Rick

No, not at all Rick!!

volkswagendude · Jan 3, 2010

Two Extremes, and No Middle Ground

Rickanns said:
......All the MB's, BMW's, Caddies, and Lexus come out of one luxury dealer. These guys have built their business on the high end market and service and do very well with it........

Rick

"...come out of one luxury dealer"....I think what you wrote is exactly what I'd be so curious to hear the response to, if one had the imaginative dream chance to ask this question at a VW board meeting. A question based with the theme of "in retrospect.." Just to hear their answer.....

Toyota certainly didn't conjure up Lexus overnight. Nissan didn't do it with Infinity either. With VW, if you go back almost a mere decade ago, 98/99 to be precise, when the B5 Passat and MKIV Jetta were first introduced, you new that something radical was up at VW in Germany. Those two cars were an A-Z departure from their predecessors...I don't care what anybody sais in forums, those cars screamed quality for their respective niche class they were set at. They redefined what an interior was supposed to be like, and even exterior styling. I remember reading about Ferdinand Piech taking a ride(in the passenger seat) in late 98 in the Jetta VR6 on the Nuburgring, and coyly smiling, being quite satisfied at what was just created. He was on a mission to drive Volkswagen and Audi brands up market one might say. Then shortly after, along came the Phaeton Glass Factory. I'll stop right there. Metaphorically, this is beautiful. Here is the problem. You have a teutonic, clinical, spotless, artsy, Phaeton Glass factory on one end, and the VW dealership network in the USA in the other. The dealership network that is being reported here and virtually on all other VW forums. The two extremes!!!

I've always said to people around here, VW's saving grace is truly its product line. If it wasn't for it, I too would have "moved on." Don't you guys find its quite sad that we try to stay loyal to a brand because of its product line, but must have to CRINGE at the mere thought of having to drop off the car(Phaeton, Touareg, even Passat TDI models...) at VW for some diagnostic service? And pray to God that when you pick it up, something won't be "different"?

Luckily, here in Canada, the VW dealerships are not as bad as in the USA. This seems to be quite consistent visiting all VW forums. But even here, you have to choose your dealerships carefully. Word of mouth travels fast, well at least if you look for it.

canon_mutant · Jan 4, 2010

Rickanns said:
The trouble for me is that there is nothing out there that gives me what the Touareg has....luxury, off-road, and towing.

+1 on that . . .

Rickanns said:
Now that VW has basically stripped the high end out of the Touareg, I think it is dead meat sooner or later. What a shame!

Sadly, I am almost afraid they'll succeed at it since most folks never go offroad and there's always been the VW = highend perception problem. Afterall, my dealer won't even stock Touaregs because of this.

Just a big brother decontented Tiguan crossover in the 35-50K MSRP market might actually sell. With 4motion, hill climb and hill descent it wouldn't be horrible but I won't buy one. Of course, I have no need to buy one now. Unless it turns into a problem child, I'll be driving my 2010 for quite awhile I suspect.

gregtay · Jan 4, 2010

We own both the VW and an Audi and i can say that my local Audi dealership gets an 11 out of 10 for the service experiance... it's truely amazing.. but you do pay for it since even the A3 is $$$$ these days. Unfortunatly VW sells a bunch of $20K cars that compete with a Honda/Toyota, etc and they simply don't have the margin to pour into creating an amazing service department. Plus... VW's in the US are CHEAP compared to what you would pay for on in Germany (meaning less profit for VW)... for example... a V6TDi runs about EU$67K's... now convert that to US$ and it's about $100K.

Yes... the people to make a differance.. and i can say that i am very lucky to have my Touareg serviced at Chaplins in Bellevue WA... they have some great service writers and the pac NW is home of a ton of Touaregs (I had a dealer tell me the Seattle area sells more Touaregs than any other part of the country.. not sure if that is true but they are EVERYWHERE... you can't go for a drive without passing a few).... so our dealers have some techs dedicated to the Touareg and we get great service. Do I get the same experiance as the Audi dealer? nope... but the stuff that's missing is just fluff (makes my wife feel good)... what i really care about is my car trusting the service guys to put the correct oil in it. I can't image the level of service some of you guys get where Touaregs are a bit less popular... and i can't imagine what happens when you roll in with a V10... again.. i usually see 1 or 2 other V10's at my dealers service department whenever i am there.... the V10 isn't "rare" to them... they see them everyday.

At the end of the day i just don't think VW can compete in the $20K car price range and the "high end" lux bracket as well... just two different customers and requirements. People in the sub $20K car bracket in the US tend to care more about price than anything else.. they may spend a few dollars more to have a VW vw. a Hyndai, but they won't pay more up front to have a lux service experiance.

Here's a bit of an example... I recently needed some TPMS valve stems for my new winter wheels... as with most things Audi and VW share the same part.. same part number and all... it's the EXACT same part in the EXACT same box (says AUDI-VW-SEAT-SKODA on it.) The VW dealer was out of stock so i stopped by the Audi dealer..they had them in stock and they had a list price of $63 each but they gave me the "customer discount" down to $53 (FOR VALVE STEMS!!!!) I walked away... why?... because VW lists the same price at $44 but my dealer (after the normal discount because you "NEVER PAY MSRP FOR PARTS" to $32 each (still $$$ for a valve stem...) but it was a lot better than $53 each. So why did Audi charge more? Well first their customers will pay it because they paid $$$$ for their cars and sort of just expect everything to be expensive. Second... they have more $$$$ poured into the dealership so they need to get more margin out of everything they sell. Why doesn't VW charge the same $53?.. because people with VW Golfs would flip out if they walked in and were told they needed to pay $200+ for a set of valve stems.

AndrieK · Jan 4, 2010

We had a little fiasco over here about 18months ago. VWSA decided to introduce the Seat brand for the first time here, a couple of years ago. For various reasons, the attempt wasn't very successful and they closed all their dealerships a little over a year ago. My nephew bought a second hand Ibiza FR 1.9TDi (what a car!!!) in Sep09 and, since it's still under warranty he phoned the VW dealer for a service. They told him: "Take it to the Audi dealer. They support the Seats now."

He did just that and, guess what, he gets EXCELLENT service at a reasonable price on a US$15k car!!! Why...? Because Audi dealers have a much better understanding of the term "customer service".

VWSA created what they call "Touareg Technical Centres" here. Special dealers with special technicians and special tools to work specifically on Touaregs, and they're still useless. What they should've done, was tell Touareg customers "Take it to the Audi dealer. They support the Touaregs now."

The Phaeton was never sold here, neither the W8 Passat, so the Touareg was (actually still is, after 6 years) a real culture shock for the VW dealers.

Question: Surely the TPMS / KESSY / Valve Body / Propshaft / Brake Life / etc. issues are common with the Q7 (and even the Cayenne) but why is it that you never hear a Q7 owner complain about these things...?

nickm · Jan 4, 2010

gregtay said:
At the end of the day i just don't think VW can compete in the $20K car price range and the "high end" lux bracket as well... just two different customers and requirements. People in the sub $20K car bracket in the US tend to care more about price than anything else.. they may spend a few dollars more to have a VW vw. a Hyndai, but they won't pay more up front to have a lux service experiance.

I'm not sure I buy this...not that GM is a stellar example of service but they sell and service $12K Cobalts and $80K Cadillacs and Corvettes out of the same dealerships, Same with Ford selling Focus' and Lincolns...heck even BMW sells 1 series price in the high $20s and M cars nearing $100K..I certainly wouldn't think of a 1 series buyer and an M6 buyer having the same expectations.

volkswagendude · Jan 5, 2010

AndrieK said:
.....The Phaeton was never sold here, neither the W8 Passat, so the Touareg was (actually still is, after 6 years) a real culture shock for the VW dealers.

Very dramatic, and what a beautiful line!

This simplifies the question once the above statement is introduced in those words. Is there any excuse for there to have been any kind of culture shock for the VW dealers to begin with? I think the Touareg, Phaeton, W8 Passat, (and to some extent newer TDI technology in the USA) were all a culture shock to VW dealerships. Both gregtay and AndrieK mention the consistent superior Audi dealership service, and so do many others. Nick makes an excellent point though with Ford dealerships selling the Focus, while still managing well enough with a Lincoln right beside it. GM? Well I'll ignore that one, they almost went bankrupt did they not?

Which just reminded me on a quick side note...I wonder how well Chrysler serviced and took care of their Viper V10 crowd? I have no idea, just asking.

I don't know...I don't mind not having the "fluff" at the dealerships, I just want my car to be serviced professionally, no muss, no fuss..Seems to me that VW's training and hiring program is the problem. Are they hiring the flunks from mechanics school? I don't get it. On two occasions, I've had to return my car to the dealer after one simple oil change, beacuse they over filled it by at least 1 quart! In fact, in one other VW forum(before I became a Touareg owner), I even took pictures of the dipstick with the overfilled oil, to ask the "guru" members, if I should proceed with a drain procedure, or just continue to drive on with no worries. In any case, not to ramble on about that past case, fact of the matter is, the mechanical service side of VW continues to persist as being inept....along side an otherwise very interesting and very desirable product line, probably the most interesting one in the industry imho. Sad sad sad.

AndrieK · Jan 5, 2010

volkswagendude said:
Are they hiring the flunks from mechanics school? I don't get it. On two occasions, I've had to return my car to the dealer after one simple oil change, beacuse they over filled it by at least 1 quart!

I have seen more cars with overfilled sumps after a dealer service in my life than ones that were correct, and that goes fo almost any brand. To this day I still cannot figure out why they're doing it. I suspect it's because oil comes in multiples of 1 litre bottles and if you only need 3.5 litres, you just chuck 4 in there because you don't know what to do with the extra 0.5.

Regarding the flunks, I think this might be a little harsh, but the fact remains that they are not skilled to do the job. I'm a mechanical engineer that has worked in the automotive industry for the past 9 years and even I battle to understand some of the systems on the Treg. How can you then expect an improperly trained mechanic to do anything other than "fault finding by replacing"...?

The bit I'm grabbing the popcorn for, is all the OTHER new fancy SUV's out there. Go look at the systems that are now standard in cars like the 200 Series Land Cruiser or the new Prado, or even the new LR4. Watch this space, their equally inadequate mechanics are going to walk the same path. The 4x4 guys over here are very quick to say they wan't a car without electronics because of the better reliability. Well, guess what...? Electronic systems in cars are here to stay. Either you learn to deal with them or you stay home.

The Treg and Cayenne were the first (but Prorsche dealers know how to keep their customers happy, so you don't hear about their issues), but in the end, we all cook with the same water.

Diablonyc2 · Jan 5, 2010

On a side note....this past weekend I had the treg washed and it was looking sweet. Two young girls were in the car wash and looked at the treg and one said "Wow...what kind of car is that?" The other girl told her "Oh that is the new VW Tigerone". I had to laugh.

I love my treg and it is great all around but always was scared to take it off road due to the high price in repairs.

I had a 2000 4Runner and a 2003 4Runner. The 2003 was a lot of bells and whistles....it was okay but had a nice V8. The 2000 was less bells and whistles and was a solid car...and my favorite car.....until I bought my 04 Treg!

Tougher Body Style

hendlerj

chesters

Yeti

canon_mutant

volkswagendude

canon_mutant

nickm

Yeti

Rickanns

Yeti

volkswagendude

canon_mutant

gregtay

AndrieK

nickm

volkswagendude

AndrieK

Diablonyc2

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