Nudge bar and sill protection Aussie made

Armdlo · Mar 18, 2008

Does anyone have any experience with a Sydney co. "Powerful 4x4", they advertise a nudge bar and side bars, ie sill protecters. I cant get a clear enough image from the web site POWERFUL 4x4
Armdlo

V10-downunder · Mar 26, 2008

Hi All,

Does any one have a photo of the so called Nudge Bar Powerful 4X4 lists.

I can not see a photo.

Has any Syndey owner investigated the product?

Gerald

Singh · Mar 26, 2008

never heard of them...will have to check it out

Frank S · Mar 28, 2008

I have been in email contact and managed to get this picture from them. I have asked about self installation and driving light mounts but still awaiting a reply.

Frank

V10-downunder · Mar 28, 2008

Hi Frank,

Thank you for the feedback. An intersting bar, if you do get a reply, please ask if they have actually installed it on a Touareg and one with parking sensors. As I feel the bar may obstruct the ultrasonic transducers to produce false distance warnings.

Gerald.

Frank S · Mar 28, 2008

Hi Gerald,

Will do. I expect that the bar will interfere with the sensors, based on email dialog I have had with O'seas bar suppliers.

Frank

Moonan · Mar 29, 2008

I emailed them and got the same photo. Also that they would have to "check with the manufacturer" about fitting and parking sensor interference. Have not heard back again.
..Neil

V10-downunder · Mar 30, 2008

Hi Neil,

Long time no reply.

Sounds a bit dodgy to me!!

Thanks.

Regards

Gerald

tezza · Apr 18, 2008

Nudge Bar sensors

Saw a TREG in QLD had his fitted with a nudge bar and had the 2 centre sensors moved INTO the nudge bar. So guess it can be done but would need someone with a bit of intelligence to fit it correctly

dmm_au · Apr 18, 2008

tezza said:
Saw a TREG in QLD had his fitted with a nudge bar and had the 2 centre sensors moved INTO the nudge bar. So guess it can be done but would need someone with a bit of intelligence to fit it correctly

Why would you bother?? Lot of effort to go to just to create a platform for some driving lights.

V10-downunder · Apr 18, 2008

David,

Yes and no. Driving lights is one thing, but a suitable long range high powered HF antenna mount is another matter.

Also good driving lights needs sturdy mount.

I spoke with Powerful 4X4 today asking for more detail. I provided my e-mail address and stressed the need for more data and informed them that I had a real interest.

In addition, I would be keen to try the bar, and if it's good, I'd be more then happy to promote it, the plus and minuses.

Some of us do take it offroad seriously and the need to equippe the vehicle for safety is paramount.

I prefer a pair of snorkels in place of 10 nudge bars in reality.

Regards

Gerald

Keiros · May 2, 2008

dmm_au said:
Why would you bother?? Lot of effort to go to just to create a platform for some driving lights.

Its because most people in shopping centre carparks can't drive.

The guy who drilled the sensors into the 'bar either got paid a bucket or had way too much time on his hands. Either way he modified an airbag compatible protection device which is a big no-no in Oz.

Keiros · May 2, 2008

P4x4 replied...

Retail on this unit is $899...............fitting time? Well that will depend on you guys. I Assume you will do your own fitting. We out source our fitting to various fitters. We have them in stock...you can pickup or we can send via courier...

Still didnt answer my question about the sensors. Wont know until VW get back to me or we just do one. It would need the owner to sign something authorising us to disconnect a safety feature of the vehicle.

barefoot · May 2, 2008

dmm_au said:
Why would you bother?? Lot of effort to go to just to create a platform for some driving lights.

I'd second that, it makes the car less safe to yourself but also those you hit.

I don't buy the shopping centre drivers rationale either, if that's the reason why not stick on a full bull bar, front and back, people are more likely to hit you at the corners (front and back) than front on.

There are better ways to mount things than to stick on a hard metal object to replace an intended pedestrian friendly soft bumper, at the same altering the airbag trigger dynamics where only a fraction of a second could mean the difference between an airbag deploying to cushion you as opposed to it knocking you out, or worse, deployed too late.

Apologies if I offend anyone, a bit of a touchy subject with me. I grew up in northwest qld, never hit a roo, family has never hit a roo, and in the burbs, there are no roos or cows to hit.
Cheers

TOPNDR · May 2, 2008

Not offended but I grew up in Melbourne, hit a roo just north of Alice ($3.5k damage), hit countless birds and have come close to countless cattle, sheep, the odd donkey, a camel, and a few emus.

Oh, and the tree that hit me would have left us on the Kalumbaru Rd if not for the bull bar.

Pros and cons for everything I guess.

barefoot · May 2, 2008

There are electronic options that is proven to work with wildlife (like shu-roo). As for trees, been driving for 25 years, never hit one, and with parktronic in the treg I think chances of avoiding trees have improved further for me

.

Also, most modern cars are usually monocoque chassis not ladder framed chassis, so if you're going to hit anything (and your car is fitted with a bull/nudge bar) it will most likely cause more damage to the car than if you didn't have a bull/nudge bar (i.e. bent chasis, engine mount, distort drivetrain, rupture fuel lines etc).

In terms of preserving mobility, I'd say the benefit is marginal with a bull bar and virtually nil with a nudge bar. Brake lines, intercooler, air intake, radiator pipes, running gear are usually located in places other than behind a nudge/bull bar (and on a treg ON the monocoque).

Weighing up all issues including the integrity of airbags, crumple zones, pedestrian safety (which most of the times are your own friends and families), I'd say the likes of ARB, TJM has alot more to gain than 4by (especially touareg) owners.

One last comment, IMHO if bull/nudge bar truely serves a higher purpose other than visual and psychological appeal, safety conscious manufacturers like volvo would have put them on their cars. Instead reputable manufacturers invests hundreds of millions of dollars on finite element analysis technology to ensure their cars crumple properly, maintain structural integrity under stress, and things like fuel lines & essential wiring are not affected etc.
Cheers

Keiros · May 3, 2008

barefoot said:
I don't buy the shopping centre drivers rationale either, if that's the reason why not stick on a full bull bar, front and back, people are more likely to hit you at the corners (front and back) than front on.

There are better ways to mount things than to stick on a hard metal object to replace an intended pedestrian friendly soft bumper, at the same altering the airbag trigger dynamics where only a fraction of a second could mean the difference between an airbag deploying to cushion you as opposed to it knocking you out, or worse, deployed too late.

Apologies if I offend anyone, a bit of a touchy subject with me. I grew up in northwest qld, never hit a roo, family has never hit a roo, and in the burbs, there are no roos or cows to hit.
Cheers

Nudges are meant to be fully compliant with airbag deployment, and it stands to reason that if the initial impact that activates the bags is 1 foot in front of the vehicle instead of the vehicle itself, then you are marginally better off.

One last comment, IMHO if bull/nudge bar truely serves a higher purpose other than visual and psychological appeal, safety conscious manufacturers like volvo would have put them on their cars. Instead reputable manufacturers invests hundreds of millions of dollars on finite element analysis technology to ensure their cars crumple properly, maintain structural integrity under stress, and things like fuel lines & essential wiring are not affected etc.

A bull bar spreads the force of a major impact over a wider area thereby utilising more of those crumple zones manufacterers spend so much money on. Minor impacts are absorbed by the bar itself. Notice that Toyota and Nissan have started to include bullbars as an optional extra...? I agree that there are less obtrusive ways to protect the vehicle and Shu-Roos are at the top of that list.

TOPNDR · May 3, 2008

I guess this could become an argument over semantics.

Is the Shoo Roo proven? I'm not aware of any independent studies into its efficiency. When I hit a roo I had 2 x air powered shoo roos on my bull bar. I've never observed the wild life disappearing en masse as some have claimed.

As for trees, well hitting bulldust and an unobtrusive 90 degree bend at the same time won't be avoided with park assist. I did however, learn from this event, not to travel over 80 kph on a dirt road I was not familiar with.

Keiros · May 3, 2008

TOPNDR said:
I guess this could become an argument over semantics.

Is the Shoo Roo proven? I'm not aware of any independent studies into its efficiency. When I hit a roo I had 2 x air powered shoo roos on my bull bar. I've never observed the wild life disappearing en masse as some have claimed.

As for trees, well hitting bulldust and an unobtrusive 90 degree bend at the same time won't be avoided with park assist. I did however, learn from this event, not to travel over 80 kph on a dirt road I was not familiar with.

I have a book of testimonials dating back to 1996. Wesfarmers, Mobil, Air Services...All swear by them. And the point is not to have animals fleeing in terror from your vehicle like villagers in a Godzilla film. Some animals will retreat, some will stand stock still. None should jump out at you...

barefoot · May 3, 2008

Keiros said:
Nudges are meant to be fully compliant with airbag deployment, and it stands to reason that if the initial impact that activates the bags is 1 foot in front of the vehicle instead of the vehicle itself, then you are marginally better off.

I think "meant" and "actually compliant" are two different things, and needs written confirmation, which for touareg I doubt you would get.

Said "compliant" also only refers to compliance with ADR 69 which is mainly to do with progressive crumple zones and SRS. Further, there is no technical threshold, compliance with ADR 69 usually entails some intent in the design of said (frontal protection bar) FPB only (not real world testing). Actual workings of airbag deployment is a precise milli-seconds trigger which requires real world testing in the design of FPB and car together (which I doubt ARB or TJM does). Look here to see what Toyota say about it:

Bull Bars - Accessories - Toyota Australia

BTW, The landcruiser, prado, patrol are all ladder framed chassis.

Keiros said:
A bull bar spreads the force of a major impact over a wider area thereby utilising more of those crumple zones manufacterers spend so much money on. Minor impacts are absorbed by the bar itself. Notice that Toyota and Nissan have started to include bullbars as an optional extra...? I agree that there are less obtrusive ways to protect the vehicle and Shu-Roos are at the top of that list.

Agree re' minor impacts, but if you really need it for impact where the crumple zones starts to work, I would say being mounted on a couple points means a FPB is always going to transfer loads to those mount points in a way not intended by the original manufacturers.

All things said and done, most 4bys in the city spend their times closer to young children than roos, so unless one lives in the bush, a FPB is as useful as tits on bulls. And also all things said and done, I'm embarrassed to admit (having only seen full bull bars as I was growing up) for a long time I thought a nudge bar was a towel rail located near the engine to aid faster drying

Cheers

Nudge bar and sill protection Aussie made

Armdlo

V10-downunder

Singh

Frank S

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