What makes VW 507 oil so necessary?

58642 Views 195 Replies 33 Participants Last post by jeffnhiscars, Mar 23, 2022

BenTDI

Discussion Starter · May 27, 2016

I can't help but to think, if our vehicles-3.0 TDI motors-are so special, so expensive and so exclusive, why do we need the magical VW 507 spec. oil? What is it in our motors that makes them so seemingly magical that they need this oil we can't just by at Vatozone, Advanced Auto, Walmart, etc. and have to pay about $10 a quart for?

161 - 180 of 196 Posts

BenTDI

Discussion Starter · #161 · Dec 29, 2016

Just think, with all the 3.0's that will be coming off the road, if the "Noah's Ark" of oils, the vaunted 507 spec was a challenge to find before, just think of what it will be like once the buyback/compensation/fix is complete.

In a big way, if the buyback for my 2012 is too good to pass up, I won't need any 507 other than for my wife's 2015 which she/we will keep as it is an awesome truck.

BeemerMikeTX

· #162 · Dec 29, 2016

Black Grouse said:
I'd suggest they aren't the same - as in the UK we have available 5W-30 ACEA-C3 without VW 507.00 and often from the same brand, a 5W-30 ACEA-C3 with VW 507.00 approval.

Which just brings us back to the OP's question.

BeemerMikeTX

· #163 · Dec 29, 2016

BenTDI said:
Just think, with all the 3.0's that will be coming off the road, if the "Noah's Ark" of oils, the vaunted 507 spec was a challenge to find before, just think of what it will be like once the buyback/compensation/fix is complete.

No doubt, but you should always be able to find it at your VW dealer (and at a reasonable price). Other folks may have to go to the trouble of on-line ordering, but at least you know what the VW dealer is using.

Stabone33

· #164 · Dec 29, 2016

Black Grouse said:
I'd suggest they aren't the same - as in the UK we have available 5W-30 ACEA-C3 without VW 507.00 and often from the same brand, a 5W-30 ACEA-C3 with VW 507.00 approval.

I'd also suggest that the reason is that oil requirements are banded to get their rating - in a laboratory two oils might be 3W-27 and 7W-33 but both marketed as 5W-30 - the qualities required for ACEA ratings are equally banded - the VW 507.00 bands may be tighter than the API viscosity rating band or ACEA grade band.

You've probably seen the specification for ACEA C3-12, the latest specification, https://www.infineum.com/media/16389/acea-2012-oil-sequences.pdf but VW 507.00 may be tighter than that.

Maybe, but the main difference is that only motor oils tested by VW's approved laboratories and granted the VW 507.00 seal of approval carry the 507.00 seal of approval. Others available in the US may meet the grade/spec, but they haven't been evaluated by VW's labs, so they don't carry the 507.00 stamp. Still others may not meet the spec.

So, the safest way to be sure in the US is just buy it from the dealer - it's not that much more expensive and for most people it's a lot easier. I suppose one could send samples of unused motor oil to a motor oil testing laboratory, pay for independent testing comparing a more commonly-found ACEA C3 spec oil to Castrol LL03, and then go from there, but that's a lot of time and money for a little bit of convenience.

Reactions: 1

BenTDI

Discussion Starter · #165 · Dec 29, 2016

BeemerMikeTX said:
No doubt, but you should always be able to find it at your VW dealer (and at a reasonable price). Other folks may have to go to the trouble of on-line ordering, but at least you know what the VW dealer is using.

I'm lucky as Idparts is in MA-where I live, and with their $4.95 flat rate shipping, I get it delivered in a day or two.

I can only imagine, if I go with a RR Td6, what sort of special-oil I may need for their motor.

noobytoogy

· #166 · Dec 29, 2016

Liquid gold!

Philth

· #167 · Dec 29, 2016

Like stated before, Amazon sells M1 ESP too for cheaper than Pep Boys.

Stabone33

· #168 · Dec 29, 2016

BenTDI said:
I'm lucky as Idparts is in MA-where I live, and with their $4.95 flat rate shipping, I get it delivered in a day or two.

I can only imagine, if I go with a RR Td6, what sort of special-oil I may need for their motor.

It's a Ford motor, and they're actually much less stringent - "SAE 5W-30 meeting Jaguar Land Rover engine oil specification STJLR.03.5005. If unavailable, SAE 5W-30 ACEA C2 engine oils may be used. Other specifications of engine oil are not approved for use in this vehicle."

bobbydigitali

· #169 · Jul 1, 2019

Add oil message popped up on my screen the other day. I went to the VW dealership in Escanaba, MI and they handed me a quart of 502 00 / 505 00 spec Castrol Edge. I politely declined and mentioned the 3.0 TDI should drink the 507 spec. The guy looked confused and said that’s what they’ve been using on TDIs for awhile. Moral of the story...do your research and don’t trust dealerships

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

alfissimo

· #170 · Mar 21, 2022

VOLKS N ROLL said:
For all, I noticed Pennzoil Euro LX do have the VW 507.00 specifications.
I did a lot of research like many of us did. This one is made from natural gas, so much cleaner for the based oil in order to add the synthetic ingredients after as part of the process to achieved the synthetic oil compared to other synthetic oil brand made from extraction of crude mineral oils where the process is more elaborated to achieved the synthetic level since the crude oil is less pure than the oil obtained from natural gas.

I saw on their website they offer also a good postal rebate until December 2016.

Pennzoil belongs to Shell, and many forums on Diesel Trucks I looked at have identified this one as a high quality oil based on high millage use and analysis.
Just passing a message here, if some think the one at dealers is the only one on the market the "real" best for our toy.

I am not trying to start a debate, I just want to inform our club members on other brands for the 507.00 spec.

If any are interested to learn on proper balance of zinc and phosphorous detergent in oil, which is also a part of the specific 507.00 requirement go and see the nice video from Mr. Lake Speed, Tribologist on DrivenRacingOil.com well known of NASCAR fans.

Reviving this dead thread. But came across this looking around.

Pennzoil from Natural Gas is far superior to any other oil except for maybe Motul Ester.

Read the reasons why here:

GTL innovation produces clean base oils from natural gas

Gas Processing provides news, business information and projects information for global gas processing industry and coverage includes Natural gas liquids (NGL), Liquefied natural gas (LNG), Gas-to-Liquids (GTL) and Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG).

gasprocessingnews.com

I used Ravenol and Motul but I am moving to this.

jeffnhiscars

· #171 · Mar 21, 2022

Not being a petroleum engineer or anything remotely close my eyes glazed over a couple of paragraphs in. I therefore must have missed the part that said "use this oil or your dog will die".

alfissimo

· #172 · Mar 21, 2022

jeffnhiscars said:
Not being a petroleum engineer or anything remotely close my eyes glazed over a couple of paragraphs in. I therefore must have missed the part that said "use this oil or your dog will die".

Boy you are fun!

rgh0

· #173 · Mar 21, 2022

VW 507 specification is basically a specification with a focus on 2 things beyond the standard API / ISO oil specifications
1. Long life that requires a higher quality synthetic base stock and additive package to meet the fixed 15,000 kms or longer extended oil change system requirements employed in some of the cars
2. Low SAPS ( Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus , Sulphur) to maximise DPF life and minimise ash build up in it.

Those manufacturers who make an approved VW 507 oil, charge a premium as its more expensive to make but they also have a captive market for the certified oil.

Incidentally the "Gas to liquids" oil base stock referred to above is a Group 3 hydrocracked base stock and inferior to group 4 PAO or Group 5 ester base stocks. VW507 oil requires at least group 3 base stocks but will usually be a blend of group 3 , 4 and maybe 5 depending on the manufacturer . In the general the higher the price the less group 3 base stock used

regards
Rohan

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jeffnhiscars

· #174 · Mar 22, 2022

alfissimo said:
Boy you are fun!

oil just doesn't excite us all the same way

I'm partial to any quality oil that's in spec & not stupid expensive. I use LM in my TDi, Motul in my 911 (which I got for $6/L) and M1 in my e30s and they all get changed often enough.

🤷‍♂️

alfissimo

· #175 · Mar 22, 2022

jeffnhiscars said:
oil just doesn't excite us all the same way

I'm partial to any quality oil that's in spec & not stupid expensive. I use LM in my TDi, Motul in my 911 (which I got for $6/L) and M1 in my e30s and they all get changed often enough.

🤷‍♂️

Oil is not exciting but Pennzoil is not stupid expensive and very good. I have been using Ravenol or Motul but this is a much less expensive but high quality oil to be using it's almost dumb not to use it. Basically the study was more about the graphs for those not versed in oil chemistry. Pennzoil = better on the graphs than other oils so that = better oil. To some extent. I use this stuff in my Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio 2.9L biturbo. Oil tests show it is holding well after 3-4k miles.

haha

Black Grouse

· #176 · Mar 22, 2022

rgh0 said:
VW 507 specification is basically a specification with a focus on 2 things beyond the standard API / ISO oil specifications
1. Long life that requires a higher quality synthetic base stock and additive package to meet the fixed 15,000 kms or longer extended oil change system requirements employed in some of the cars
2. Low SAPS ( Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus , Sulphur) to maximise DPF life and minimise ash build up in it.

Those manufacturers who make an approved VW 507 oil, charge a premium as its more expensive to make but they also have a captive market for the certified oil.

Incidentally the "Gas to liquids" oil base stock referred to above is a Group 3 hydrocracked base stock and inferior to group 4 PAO or Group 5 ester base stocks. VW507 oil requires at least group 3 base stocks but will usually be a blend of group 3 , 4 and maybe 5 depending on the manufacturer . In the general the higher the price the less group 3 base stock used

regards
Rohan

There's more to it than your two bullet points - outside of the USA the ACEA specifications cover those points and there's plenty of 5W-30 and 0W-30 which meet ACEA-C3 but don't meet VW 507

rgh0

· #177 · Mar 22, 2022

Yes It is the detail behind these 507 requirements versus the c3 standard and whether a manufacturer decides to certify their oil to meet the 507 standard.

jeffnhiscars

· #178 · Mar 22, 2022

alfissimo said:
Oil is not exciting but Pennzoil is not stupid expensive and very good. I have been using Ravenol or Motul but this is a much less expensive but high quality oil to be using it's almost dumb not to use it. Basically the study was more about the graphs for those not versed in oil chemistry. Pennzoil = better on the graphs than other oils so that = better oil. To some extent. I use this stuff in my Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio 2.9L biturbo. Oil tests show it is holding well after 3-4k miles. haha

im doing UOA's on my 996 as well as cutting open the oil filter with each change...but then if your familiar with the 996 IMS concerns you'd forgive the neurotic paranoia associated with owning a car that has a $25k time bomb in it.

I really don't lose sleep over it but you can't follow these cars without reading every day about 1 self destructing. Have no such concerns about my TDi, especially since it's had a replacement HPFP and it does have that luscious warranty.

Now if I still had an Alfa I'd also be grateful for each day is was "holding well"

the oil analysis is a great tool to actually track oil performance. Absent that when I pulled the VC on my E30 cabrio the head was a clean and shiny as it was 40k ago when I installed it. I'd say that speaks well to the M1...in that car. I don't use it elsewhere even though the P car has an M1 sticker under the lid. It's been reformulated and the UOA shows it shears out of grade early on.

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Black Grouse

· #179 · Mar 22, 2022

Is it only in North America that people bother with Used Oil Analysis - no-one seems to bother in Europe.

TommiT

· #180 · Mar 22, 2022

@Jeff

There are several fixes for the 996 IMS bearing including one using a cylindrical bearing that, they say, doesn't need the engine to be removed or disassembled.
Have you not explored these for peace of mind?

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