What makes VW 507 oil so necessary?

58230 Views 195 Replies 33 Participants Last post by jeffnhiscars, Mar 23, 2022

BenTDI

Discussion Starter · May 27, 2016

I can't help but to think, if our vehicles-3.0 TDI motors-are so special, so expensive and so exclusive, why do we need the magical VW 507 spec. oil? What is it in our motors that makes them so seemingly magical that they need this oil we can't just by at Vatozone, Advanced Auto, Walmart, etc. and have to pay about $10 a quart for?

181 - 196 of 196 Posts

alfissimo

· #181 · Mar 22, 2022

jeffnhiscars said:
im doing UOA's on my 996 as well as cutting open the oil filter with each change...but then if your familiar with the 996 IMS concerns you'd forgive the neurotic paranoia associated with owning a car that has a $25k time bomb in it.

I really don't lose sleep over it but you can't follow these cars without reading every day about 1 self destructing. Have no such concerns about my TDi, especially since it's had a replacement HPFP and it does have that luscious warranty.

Now if I still had an Alfa I'd also be grateful for each day is was "holding well"

the oil analysis is a great tool to actually track oil performance. Absent that when I pulled the VC on my E30 cabrio the head was a clean and shiny as it was 40k ago when I installed it. I'd say that speaks well to the M1...in that car. I don't use it elsewhere even though the P car has an M1 sticker under the lid. It's been reformulated and the UOA shows it shears out of grade early on.

I am familiar. I have a $45K engine in my Alfa. It was just replaced under warranty due to rod knock so Oil is huge. Moving to Motul Compeition oil- Ester. Although the Pennzoil has done very very well. Just a fluke because the car is very reliable but most issues come from doing the 10K mile oil change interval and low quality fuel. I mean it is a 'Ferrari derived' engine. 10K is too much for any oil IMO. M1 makes good oils. Oil analysis is crucial for sure. Oil Chemist buddy says 4K is too much and his oil samples from the above 2.9L engine shows it should be changed at 2K miles. I suppose I can go along with the idea that oil is cheaper than an engine.

I agree on the TDI. I am more concerned with the fuel quality and Lubrication in this case. I have already been through a HPFP replacement after it died in Grand Junction CO on a trip. That was 3 months of hell. So this time, with my new 2010, HPFP is going to be replaced in the next 6-12 months. A primary Fuel filter will be installed in tandem to OEM using that as secondary. Of course I use B20 fuel most of the time for lubricity, change fuel filter more often, change oil around 5-6K miles max. 1.5 Years left in the warranty so I am good regardless.

Thanks

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jeffnhiscars

· #182 · Mar 22, 2022

I think we are pretty much on the same page. Those extended OCIs are just plain ridiculous just like the "lifetime" fluid in our transmissions. Porsche states 15k OCI in the 996 which is pure insanity. I do 5k/6mo in it and 5k/12mo in the TDi. My VW SA has one as well and he constantly reminds me to do fuel filters at 20k (YMMV).

The e30s I do at 3-4K and don't really watch the calendar since they are basically indestructible as long as you do the timing belts at 50k/48mo.

Whats the cost of a preventive HPFP and how much effort is it ?

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volkswagens-for-life

· #183 · Mar 22, 2022

Calling extended OCI "crazy" without reviewing an oil analysis is crazy

lots of people run 30k mile OCI on the 2.0 TDI and Oa's come back spotless

jeffnhiscars

· #184 · Mar 22, 2022

volkswagens-for-life said:
Calling extended OCI "crazy" without reviewing an oil analysis is crazy

lots of people run 30k mile OCI on the 2.0 TDI and Oa's come back spotless

there is enough oil analysis data out there to easily justify the statement that many mfg over state the proper interval. Just because "lots of people" ( which I suspect is a highly anecdotal statement lacking in hard data) do it does not make it wise or prudent. It's like saying "I had an uncle who NEVER changed his oil and his truck went 300k". It's a load of crap to generalize based on that

I've said it before and I'll say it again...your dime and your car. my question then is do YOU do UOA's and if so have they justified you extending your OCI?

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volkswagens-for-life

· #185 · Mar 22, 2022

jeffnhiscars said:
there is enough oil analysis data out there to easily justify the statement that many mfg over state the proper interval. Just because "lots of people" ( which I suspect is a highly anecdotal statement lacking in hard data) do it does not make it wise or prudent. It's like saying "I had an uncle who NEVER changed his oil and his truck went 300k". It's a load of crap to generalize based on that

I've said it before and I'll say it again...your dime and your car. my question then is do YOU do UOA's and if so have they justified you extending your OCI?

Go to tdiclub. Massive threads on doing so. That said, the 3.0 IS a totally different engine, but the point is don't be so quick to dismiss an oil change interval that vag has been using for 30 years in is diesels without reasonable evidence

Side question, I'm sure you know this, did you know changing your oil too soon is actually as damaging as changing it too late? Many supplements in synthetic oil require lots of miles to fully release and protect your system

jeffnhiscars

· #186 · Mar 22, 2022

Not quick to dismiss anything but I'm quite fine changing my oil more often along w 99% of diyers ...and no I've never heard that oil needs time to do it's thing. Kind of defeats the purpose of ever changing it. I call BS

again...your dime your car

volkswagens-for-life

· #187 · Mar 23, 2022

jeffnhiscars said:
Not quick to dismiss anything but I'm quite fine changing my oil more often along w 99% of diyers ...and no I've never heard that oil needs time to do it's thing. Kind of defeats the purpose of ever changing it. I call BS

again...your dime your car

Tisk tisk. Research modern synthetics and additive packages and the harm in changing too frequently.

alfissimo

· #188 · Mar 23, 2022

jeffnhiscars said:
I think we are pretty much on the same page. Those extended OCIs are just plain ridiculous just like the "lifetime" fluid in our transmissions. Porsche states 15k OCI in the 996 which is pure insanity. I do 5k/6mo in it and 5k/12mo in the TDi. My VW SA has one as well and he constantly reminds me to do fuel filters at 20k (YMMV).

The e30s I do at 3-4K and don't really watch the calendar since they are basically indestructible as long as you do the timing belts at 50k/48mo.

Whats the cost of a preventive HPFP and how much effort is it ?

I think it may cost with parts/labor around 3K. I doubt it's a difficult job and I think around 4-6hr job from memory?
But nay well be worth it regardless of the Warranty. I was out 3 months and if caused the left head to throw timing, they replaced the head, chains and everything. I am really dumb to have sold it back as it was basically new again. So this time around with our new to us 10' I plan to do it within the next 6 months.
I am also adding a primary fuel filter 30µ tandem with Factory as secondary with water separator and sensor. Yes the OEM has a water drain plug on top but does not work well.

Now that we have B20 all over here in CA or some sort of renewable with high lubricity I won't need to worry much. I will carry a lubricant for times when I have to fill with Diesel #2.

Other than that I don't see many other issues with this engine. Change the oil at 4-5K not only because I know the oil does not last that long and using B20 will dilute oil over time. Anyway. Yes we are on the same page.

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alfissimo

· #189 · Mar 23, 2022

"...and no I've never heard that oil needs time to do it's thing. Kind of defeats the purpose of ever changing it. I call BS"

I agree.

Please site your source of the fact that additives take time to fully work. "Many supplements in synthetic oil require lots of miles to fully release and protect your system" Are you reading some Amsoil propaganda?

In the meantime, check out what your manual might say for oil change intervals for Severe or heavy duty use and what they classify as so. I can bet that Cold starts, Short trips, stop and go, dusty areas, etc are some of the criteria for changing the oil sooner. I can also bet that most of us drive very close to what most manufacturers state as heavy duty use or severe duty. It's not just towing and dusty areas. I can also bet the change interval is cut in half. If so let me know as I don't have an owners manual on me.

Regardless I would cut your intervals in half, 4-5K miles tops.

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volkswagens-for-life

· #190 · Mar 23, 2022

alfissimo said:
"...and no I've never heard that oil needs time to do it's thing. Kind of defeats the purpose of ever changing it. I call BS"

I agree.

Please site your source of the fact that additives take time to fully work. "Many supplements in synthetic oil require lots of miles to fully release and protect your system" Are you reading some Amsoil propaganda?

In the meantime, check out what your manual might say for oil change intervals for Severe or heavy duty use and what they classify as so. I can bet that Cold starts, Short trips, stop and go, dusty areas, etc are some of the criteria for changing the oil sooner. I can also bet that most of us drive very close to what most manufacturers state as heavy duty use or severe duty. It's not just towing and dusty areas. I can also bet the change interval is cut in half. If so let me know as I don't have an owners manual on me.

Regardless I would cut your intervals in half, 4-5K miles tops.

It's called reading oil analysis. The lab technicians literally tell you what additives are under used, which are expired, a full metallurgy breakdown and more.

alfissimo

· #191 · Mar 23, 2022

volkswagens-for-life said:
It's called reading oil analysis. The lab technicians literally tell you what additives are under used, which are expired, a full metallurgy breakdown and more.

Dodged the question really.

I know how oil analysis work. My last one is below done a few months back. I think if you technicians are stating the additive has 'expired' which I have never heard from one, then your interval is too long.

I will ask again. What does your VW manual state under heavy duty use or Severe duty use for oil change interval?

volkswagens-for-life

· #192 · Mar 23, 2022

alfissimo said:
Dodged the question really.

I know how oil analysis work. My last one is below done a few months back. I think if you technicians are stating the additive has 'expired' which I have never heard from one, then your interval is too long.

I will ask again. What does your VW manual state under heavy duty use or Severe duty use for oil change interval?

Not in front of the Touareg right now. My f350 does yes. It also has a built in oil-minder system that is based on a host of variables to determine change intervals.

alfissimo

· #193 · Mar 23, 2022

volkswagens-for-life said:
Not in front of the Touareg right now. My f350 does yes. It also has a built in oil-minder system that is based on a host of variables to determine change intervals.

ok. yes some new cars come with oil degradation sensors.

Black Grouse

· #194 · Mar 23, 2022

volkswagens-for-life said:
Not in front of the Touareg right now. My f350 does yes. It also has a built in oil-minder system that is based on a host of variables to determine change intervals.

The Touareg also has an "oil-minder" system, at least T4 does - on the Flexible Service regime it's nominally 18,641 miles or 2 years (30,000 km converted) but it takes the number of cold starts into account and can be lower - whether it has any other variables I don't know.

volkswagens-for-life

· #195 · Mar 23, 2022

Black Grouse said:
The Touareg also has an "oil-minder" system, at least T4 does - on the Flexible Service regime it's nominally 18,641 miles or 2 years (30,000 km converted) but it takes the number of cold starts into account and can be lower - whether it has any other variables I don't know.

Mine definitely does not 😢 set mileage and that's it. Very sad.

jeffnhiscars

· #196 · Mar 23, 2022

TommiT said:
@Jeff

There are several fixes for the 996 IMS bearing including one using a cylindrical bearing that, they say, doesn't need the engine to be removed or disassembled.
Have you not explored these for peace of mind?

i sleep cause my engine has 20k on a full rebuild for which I have invoices & a thumb drive full of pics. I've also spoken with the guy who did the rebuild since he was the 2nd owner who bought it (and another that his wife still drives) from the dealer as a roller after it dropped a valve seat. I've also been in touch with the owner of the machine shop who resleeved that bad cylinder and he shared their protocol For evaluating blocks when there is only 1 damaged cylinder

oh..and I do have the Vertex cylindrical bearing. Keep in mind whether they are replaceable without splitting the case depends on what was in there to start. I believe it's the dual row that is secured internally that can't be swapped

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