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This is a good read. To me, the key is having a competent dealer/service dept...and, of course, only fueling with diesel.


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Gotta agree with Eugene here......couple of points.......when you buy a vehicle today you truly are at the mercy of the manufacturer which in itself is pathetic. You buy a vehicle,but you cannot do what you want with it, when you want because it can be held against you to void the warranty. Complete BS! I buy the vehicle and if I want to change the oil or windshield wash fluid at 100 miles I should have every right to. Why is it now I buy a vehicle, it's in my name, I am financially responsible for it, but I cannot do anything to it to enhance it's longevity until it is past 3yrs/36k miles....just seems extremely wack to me!!........Niner, you preach to make sure they do that, and watch them do this and that, but I have never seen or been to any dealer of any brand that will actually allow you into the service area or allow you to speak directly to the mechanic doing the work. First, it is against OSHA and insurance regulations for any non employee to enter the work/service area. Secondly, all the techs have to follow what the book/ manual tells them to do. No service manager is gonna allow their employees to do anything besides what the manual says because it opens them up to liability and costs extra time and money. It's also kinda like you telling the low wage grill boy how to cook your burger. You tell him he has to flip it 3 times every three minutes so you have it just the way you like. When you look away he spits in it so you have it just the way you like. You don't tell a mechanic how to do their job!!!.........Every vehicle I have bought I buy it and drive it cause it is a vehicle, it is meant to be driven, not coddled and pampered. You say you got a Sport model, why is that?....you too cheap to get and Exec or Lux model...I'm just asking cause you just said, "cheap owners and TDIs blah blah make poor partners"...well your pretty cheap to just buy the Sport model. What's up with that???.....It appears you like to drive around on a ticking time bomb or at least that's the way you view your Treg and like Eugene said it's like your trying to hype up some type of hysteria over the fuel pump when ultimately NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT! VW has more resources than any of us and will always win. It is what it is and every brand has it's faults. Ford just recalled some thousands of vehicles. Toyota did few months ago. So are we all supposed to sell our Tregs and buy a death trap Prius?

How about this sentiment.....you only live once, so buy a 50k+ German engineered vehicle, baby it when you want to and other times ride it like a raped date and enjoy life. If you have the funds to afford such a vehicle then just drive and if things go wrong, oh well **** happens, that's life......and that's applicable to any brand at any price.

Supposedly with all of your experience with VWs and diesels and yada-yada-yada and knowing from all of research about how the HPFP is such a risk.....then why did you buy a Treg? Let me guess, you got it all figured out. Hell your all ready iPhone apps and all to document the moment your fuel pump fails. That's comical!!!
 

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Broken timing belts are probably far more common among the general population of vehicles, and the outcome is similar: Instant loss of power without warning, and potential for extensive costly engine damage. I should know, it happened to me. It was a 1987 Jetta that I bought brand new and only had 30K miles on it when the belt failed.

I think you're trying to instill panic in Touareg owners in hope that it will drive the market price down for you. ;-) Seriously, given your obvious hatred of VW and its dealers and products, and that you consider the Touareg to have a serious safety-related design defect, why do you own one?

Gotta run, need to write up and rehearse an emergency procedure for when my HPFP fails. I'll tape it to the dashboard so it's always on my mind.
A broken timing belt, for the most part, on a TDI, is a wear item, with a set replacement schedule, 4 to 5 years, or mileage, anywhere from 60k on a Z1 or Ahu motor miles to 100k miles on an ALH motor. 80 k on most B series Pumpe Dusse motors. 130k on most common rail TDI motors in 2 liter persuasion.

If it fails, it's from owners neglect for not following the maintenance routine or schedule in the service manual.

A Bosch HPFP is not a serviceable "wear" item. There is no replacement or service interval for it. Big difference, and R&Ring a complete head on a ALH motor is far less expensive for a $60 belt failure for maybe $2500 than a whole fuel system R&R on a HPFP failure at 5 to $8000, with no service interval on it. A timing belt failure is preventable, a HPFP evidently is not.... even experienced diesel VW owners have had HPFP failures. Surf some threads on TDI club if you wish to know more about it.
 

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A broken timing belt, for the most part, on a TDI, is a wear item, with a set replacement schedule, 4 to 5 years, or mileage, anywhere from 60k on a Z1 or Ahu motor miles to 100k miles on an ALH motor. 80 k on most B series Pumpe Dusse motors. 130k on most common rail TDI motors in 2 liter persuasion.

If it fails, it's from owners neglect for not following the maintenance routine or schedule in the service manual.

A Bosch HPFP is not a serviceable "wear" item. There is no replacement or service interval for it. Big difference, and R&Ring a complete head on a ALH motor is far less expensive for a $60 belt failure for maybe $2500 than a whole fuel system R&R on a HPFP failure at 5 to $8000, with no service interval on it. A timing belt failure is preventable, a HPFP evidently is not.... even experienced diesel VW owners have had HPFP failures. Surf some threads on TDI club if you wish to know more about it.
My timing belt broke suddenly at 30K miles. Replacement was recommended at 60K. Car had all regular maintenance and it still broke. Car was out of warranty but VW paid parts, I had to pay labor. Still cost me $1400 and that was 23 years ago. @@@@ happens. My sister's 1993 Honda Accord stopped running on the freeway, at night, in the rain. The ignition igniter failed. Very common on accords of that vintage. Safety defect?

We're still hoping you will explain why in the heck you drive one of these things if they're so horrible. You hate VW, its dealers, and its policies. Why do you own any VW at all, let alone a Touareg, arguably their least reliable vehicle and the most costly one to maintain? It seems at odds with your strong convictions that the company and its product are crap and in fact unsafe to drive. You imply we need an emergency plan for what to do if we're driving a touareg at 70 MPH when (not if) the HPFP inevitably blows up). Yet you have one of these vehicular abortions yourself! Are you hoping for an accident related to HPFP failure so you can sue VW? I mean I just don't get why you own a Touareg TDI if you know it's such a POS and you want to scare every Touareg owner into selling while they can or be prepared for a $15K repair. Seems like with all the knowledge you have you'd be looking to get as far away from Touaregs as possible.

All that needs to be said is there are probably more HPFP failures than there should be. Some failures are due to owner misfueling, or contaminated fuel, and some fail because mechanical devices fail. This doesn't mean even 1% of HPFPs fail. Am I wrong?

Enquiring minds want to know. ;-)
 

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While I have to say I love my touareg and vw in general I think it's good to be in the know about my vehicles and any potential weaknesses, the HPFP is a weakness for sure. I wont be losing any sleep over it, if it breaks it breaks, it's something out of our control so we can't worry about it, it'll make you nuts. Do I have 15k sitting around to blow on a stupid repair like that? No, but i'll cross that bridge if I ever come to it. I think one thing we're all forgetting about is on those charts it shows BMW with a totally different hpfp having similar issues with misfueling, as has Mercedes. It's not necessarily a vw issue just because vw is the front runner of diesel tech everyone points fingers at them.
 

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There's always some stuff called petroleum spirit . . .

SO GET A GASSER!!!
 

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My timing belt broke suddenly at 30K miles. Replacement was recommended at 60K. Car had all regular maintenance and it still broke. Car was out of warranty but VW paid parts, I had to pay labor. Still cost me $1400 and that was 23 years ago. @@@@ happens. My sister's 1993 Honda Accord stopped running on the freeway, at night, in the rain. The ignition igniter failed. Very common on accords of that vintage. Safety defect?

We're still hoping you will explain why in the heck you drive one of these things if they're so horrible. You hate VW, its dealers, and its policies. Why do you own any VW at all, let alone a Touareg, arguably their least reliable vehicle and the most costly one to maintain? It seems at odds with your strong convictions that the company and its product are crap and in fact unsafe to drive. You imply we need an emergency plan for what to do if we're driving a touareg at 70 MPH when (not if) the HPFP inevitably blows up). Yet you have one of these vehicular abortions yourself! Are you hoping for an accident related to HPFP failure so you can sue VW? I mean I just don't get why you own a Touareg TDI if you know it's such a POS and you want to scare every Touareg owner into selling while they can or be prepared for a $15K repair. Seems like with all the knowledge you have you'd be looking to get as far away from Touaregs as possible.

All that needs to be said is there are probably more HPFP failures than there should be. Some failures are due to owner misfueling, or contaminated fuel, and some fail because mechanical devices fail. This doesn't mean even 1% of HPFPs fail. Am I wrong?

Enquiring minds want to know. ;-)
I think he is merely stating that the possibility of the HPFP going bad is higher than it should be and there are ways to ensure you do not become a statistic. He is only flabbergasted that VW is still selling the vehicle as is without any changes to account for the poor Diesel standards we have to work with here in the US. I don't think he meant any ill by his wording.....which does come of crass sometimes.
 

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I think he is merely stating that the possibility of the HPFP going bad is higher than it should be and there are ways to ensure you do not become a statistic. He is only flabbergasted that VW is still selling the vehicle as is without any changes to account for the poor Diesel standards we have to work with here in the US. I don't think he meant any ill by his wording.....which does come of crass sometimes.
Very true. I guess I just get tired of reading new posts rehashing the same issue. It sucks the joy out of owning and driving such an awesome rig.

If a moderator sees this, I suggest creating a sticky thread about the HPFP issue. If new information comes up, by all means add it to that thread. Meanwhile we can get relief from what seems like a repetitive barrage of Touareg & VW negativity over this issue that just gets very tiresome. That horse doesn't need to be beaten over and over.

Maybe it's just me. ;-)
 

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Very true. I guess I just get tired of reading new posts rehashing the same issue. It sucks the joy out of owning and driving such an awesome rig.

If a moderator sees this, I suggest creating a sticky thread about the HPFP issue. If new information comes up, by all means add it to that thread. Meanwhile we can get relief from what seems like a repetitive barrage of Touareg & VW negativity over this issue that just gets very tiresome. That horse doesn't need to be beaten over and over.

Maybe it's just me. ;-)
The sticky is a very good idea...
 

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With VW's near rock bottom reliability rating by J D Powers yes it is good to keep a VAGCOM at all times. ;)

I am just curious about which other makes' HPFPs are going out because of their owners can put the right fuel in the tank?
 

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Very true. I guess I just get tired of reading new posts rehashing the same issue. It sucks the joy out of owning and driving such an awesome rig.

If a moderator sees this, I suggest creating a sticky thread about the HPFP issue. If new information comes up, by all means add it to that thread. Meanwhile we can get relief from what seems like a repetitive barrage of Touareg & VW negativity over this issue that just gets very tiresome. That horse doesn't need to be beaten over and over.

Maybe it's just me. ;-)
No, its not just you. :) But rest assured, Niner will not stop. Ha ha!

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The HPFP on my 2011 TDI Executive failed at 9,000 miles. The repair took 3 weeks. VWoA picked up the costs and actually paid me $950 in cash for my trouble (but not without a lot of discussion).
I resent any suggestion that the break down was, in any way, caused by me -- e.g. by mis-fueling. I'm the only one who fuels the vehicle and I'm not so stupid that I'd mistake/forget/be distracted so as to put gasoline instead of diesel into the tank!
I have no, zero, doubt that there is an issue with the TDI fuel system. Whether it's a common, re-occurring issue, I don't know -- I'm not sure anyone does.
But I can tell you all that it DOES happen and it is very inconvenient when it happens. I kept my TDI after the incident but only because it's still under the power train warranty.
 

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There is no secret to the fact that US ATSM spec diesel is required to have a wear scar of minimum 520 HFRR. This is higher(worse) than what is required by the manufacturer. Breakdowns will occur at some point especially if your fuel provider cheapens out and doesn't add the lubricity additive they normally would or the diesel is contaminated with gasoline. Whether this is a Bosch fail, or a Vw Fail, or just a plain old USA(lack of) standard fail remains to be seen.

 

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And it seems the best we can do to TRY to prevent the HPFP from failing is to add 2% biodiesel to bring the HFRR of Number 2 BD to 322 microns which is below the acceptable level of 450 microns. All the info is in the attachment of a study done by Stanadyne. The articles in the reference section of the attachment are a good read also.
 

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the only danger with bio is the fact that the regulations for storing and processing are not uniform across the board, because bio attracts and retains water, it's important to make sure your bio is the freshest best quality bio you can get other wise you can do more harm than good.

The chart is great however represents pre ULSD wear scar levels. I'm sure there is an updated chart somewhere.
 

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Hmmmm, it would be nice to get some Biodiesel to treat my TDI and give me that warm fuzzy feeling.

Anyone know where to get it in Northern CT or MA?
 

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the only danger with bio is the fact that the regulations for storing and processing are not uniform across the board, because bio attracts and retains water, it's important to make sure your bio is the freshest best quality bio you can get other wise you can do more harm than good.

The chart is great however represents pre ULSD wear scar levels. I'm sure there is an updated chart somewhere.
It's not the biodiesel itself that attracts and retains water, it is the excess ethanol which is not fully consumed in the transesterification process. It's entirely due to process overdosing, which is completely preventable by proper monitoring.
The basic problem is there appears to be no standard enforcement in US biofuel manufacture.
BTW, gasoline with ethanol has the same problem, being hydrophilic, which is why it can be so harmful to two cycle engines.
 

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It's not the biodiesel itself that attracts and retains water, it is the excess ethanol which is not fully consumed in the transesterification process. It's entirely due to process overdosing, which is completely preventable by proper monitoring.
The basic problem is there appears to be no standard enforcement in US biofuel manufacture.
BTW, gasoline with ethanol has the same problem, being hydrophilic, which is why it can be so harmful to two cycle engines.
BULLSEYE......for me, that is why I see possibly more harm than good going beyond 2% BD. And in all reality a lot of fuel treatments that claim to remove water from the fuel contain high amounts of either methanol (MeOH), ethanol (EtOH) or isopropanol (IPA) which are miscible in/with water and decrease the suface tension of water, hence breaking up the large drops/pools of water in your tank or fuel filter and allowing them to disperse as smaller drops throughout the fuel and more easily burned up without doing gross damage or affecting combustion. The same chemistry applies for gas or diesel.
 
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