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Some valid arguments, but WOW what a crazy Ivan turn off the tracks we have taken here. Apparently hackles are up and for further entertainment and provocation....

What should be done about those owners with <2012 models, that for some reason, have chosen to keep their vehicles vice returning them to VW? Or those with 2013 and later who have elected not to apply the EPA/CARB approved emissions modification?

I don’t care what someone drives or what they do to it.
Drive a hybrid, gasser, diesel, electric, whatever suits them. If primary concern is emissions, perhaps a choice other than a TDI is appropriate.

And what of those that keep their gasser vehicle in a
barely running state or those with under inflated tires. What of their pollution contribution?

Don’t recall starting it but it has been an interesting dialogue.

Over and out..


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I believe it's called tampering with emissions systems. It's illegal. As for the older vehicles, if the emissions systems are still in place and functional, they've been grand fathered in that way. If you don't like the laws, vote for people that will change them. I don't see any candidates in USA or Canada that are suggesting we remove our EPA, CARB or what ever pollution standards you have on vehicles in USA or Canada. It is what it is.

Frankly, whether I am driving or at home or anywhere... I don't want to smell your diesel, inhale any exhaust any more dirty/polluting than necessary if I am behind you, or near you, or hear your vehicle with it's noise pollution. Save all that crap, stink, noise, performance etc for closed course competition on the race track. If it's registered for public streets, your vehicle, it should be held to public standards the rest of us comply with. Again, driving is not a right, it's a privilege, it can be removed by the government, should you deliberately chose not to comply. Yanking the filters is a deliberate emissions defeat modification... no if's, ands, or buts.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Let us not attack those with differing “opinions”. Let us not feed their disgruntlement. This thread has derailed. Let’s keep it on the topic of removing the DPF system. Those whom think differently can create their own thread on their views.
 

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Ooh, it been a while since we've had to lock some accounts down, but there is that option.

Please keep this on topic, technical and non-political. Read our Terms of Service if you don't believe me.
 

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Bottom line is better fuel mileage means one is burning less fuel period. That never seems to be brought up in these discussions. Burning less has a bigger effect in total. Less the refineries have to run, less the pipelines have to push, less the big tankers have to deliver the fuels to the pumping stations, less out of ones pocket.
What you're missing here is, that all this is better, because of the lower environmental impact it has. Less fuel is better, because it results in less harmful emissions. But it results only in less harmful emissions if everything stays the same, including the filter being in place. However, if you're only getting a better mileage because you've removed the filter, then your net emissions will actually increase. And it will increase like up to 20-50-fold in the case of a modern DPF, while your mileage might improve by how much? 5%? So, you've a gain of 5% against the loss of 2000-5000%. The net difference will be still a 1995-4995% increase in harmful emissions.

It all adds up. The electric cars may not pollute but it sure does take a lot of polluting to make the batteries for these cars & the batteries will have to be changed out at least once for the life of the car. Not to mention most countries have to either burn fossil fuels to make their power to supply charging power for them.
Again, all this is about efficiency and net gains. Even if power plants have to burn the same fuel as cars do, they can be run more effectively, and their emissions can also be filtered more effectively, just because of their sheer size and how things scale. 1000 cars with 3.0 liter engines generate far more waste heat and operate far less efficient in total, than does a single combustion chamber with 3000 liters in a power plant, and the latter can also efficiently employ filtering methods with greater efficiency, that are not feasible to be implemented or built into each car separately.

Also, power plants don't have to waste energy on carrying their combustion chambers and filtering equipment with themselves, because you know, they just don't move. But cars have to burn a lot of fuel just for the sake of being able to carry their own engines and filtering equipment with them.

So, even if power plants are burning the very same fuel as do the cars, it still make more sense to burn that in them, than in the cars separately. And of course there are more and more power plants everywhere, that do not actually work by burning fossil fuels.

So it's more about the $ for the gov than the health risks.
If it would be, why would they subsidize technologies that are less harmful to the environment? They are actually losing (carbon) taxes with those, and they are even paying on top of that? They must be stupid. Either that, or your assumption about the evil government being out only for the money and not caring about health/environment impacts is just false.

Carbon tax is just that...tax. Another way to milk the common folk of their hard earned $.
You realize the government can levy tax on anything and everything it wants to, not just on carbon, right? They don't need fossil fuels for that. This is actually the reason why they don't actually cling to combustion engines and are actually subsidizing alternative ways to generate power.

So the EPA pencil pushers can't see the forest through the tree's.
Or maybe you just give too much credit for conspiracy theories, while not being aware of actual facts? See above!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for everyone to be rolling coal or ignoring the facts that we are slowly polluting our planet. I'm just pointing out the facts the gov doesn't seem to be serious about taking the steps to help clean up the biggest things polluting our planet.
Even if that would be or (let's assume) is true, two wrongs don't make a right, do they? The fact "the government" might not do its best to stop pollution doesn't mean we should go out of our way to cause (or even tolerate others causing) multiple magnitudes more pollution with our vehicles for marginal gains, if any, right?
 

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Let us not attack those with differing “opinions”. Let us not feed their disgruntlement. This thread has derailed. Let’s keep it on the topic of removing the DPF system.
Well, aren't we talking just about that? Ie. how "removing the DPF system" affects the working of the car, fuel consumption and emissions? Even the original post was talking about all these. Then these can't be possibly off-topic, right? More like an inconvenient truth, for some?
 

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Well, aren't we talking just about that? Ie. how "removing the DPF system" affects the working of the car, fuel consumption and emissions? Even the original post was talking about all these. Then these can't be possibly off-topic, right? More like an inconvenient truth, for some?
Enjoy your ban.
 

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Please keep this on topic, technical and non-political. Read our Terms of Service if you don't believe me.
I just did that. It says:
"You may not
[..]
Use the Web Site to instigate or encourage others to commit illegal activities [..]
Use the Web Site to post or transmit any unlawful [..] information of any kind, including without limitation any transmissions constituting or encouraging conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or otherwise violate any local, state, provincial, national or international law
[..]"

Now considering that tampering with emission systems is illegal in most jurisdictions, that surely would mean that any "DPF delete" thread per se is in violation of the ToS, whereas comments pointing out the illegality or environment and health impacts of that are not, wouldn't it?

I've also been looking for the word "political" in the ToS, but it did not result in any matches. Am I maybe looking at the wrong ToS?
 

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By your reasoning, we should not even be having any emissions discussion since VW/Audi were the original perpetrators of this crime so how are we to know if we are collectively and individually killing the planet?

Instead I will say that neither of us are experts in international emissions law and that I can only assume that the original poster might simply be using this in an off-road environment and that he was wearing his "big boy" pants when he undertook his endeavor.
 

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By your reasoning, we should not even be having any emissions discussion since VW/Audi were the original perpetrators of this crime so how are we to know if we are collectively and individually killing the planet?
No, that was absolutely not my reasoning. I did not say not to discuss anything related to "killing the planet". Actually, I stated quite the opposite: that discussion of emission control systems' impact on environment, health, etc. doesn't seem to be all against any of the ToS rules. And not only that, but I actually did discuss this very topic, because I think it's very important to learn the facts about these, which evidently most people are missing (see this very thread). So, what you're attributing to me could not have possibly been _my_ reasoning.

However, giving tips on how to do it, or encouraging others to do DPF/EGR/CAT deletes - and obviously not for off-road use only - definitely is a violation of the ToS, which explicitly prohibits "encouraging conduct that would constitute [..] violate any local, state, provincial, national or international law".

Instead I will say that neither of us are experts in international emissions law and that I can only assume that the original poster might simply be using this in an off-road environment and that he was wearing his "big boy" pants when he undertook his endeavor.
I see.......
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Well, aren't we talking just about that? Ie. how "removing the DPF system" affects the working of the car, fuel consumption and emissions?
Please explain how the workings of the car have been changed. As for fuel consumption, mine has decreased.

I understand that you have a stranglehold on your opinion and are too heavily invested now to back away from it. It happens to the best of us at times. But please, create a separate thread that can be dedicated to your thoughts.
 

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Please explain how the workings of the car have been changed.
Feel free to read back the thread. It's all have been explained in detail.

As for fuel consumption, mine has decreased. I understand that you have a stranglehold on your opinion
And I'm not presenting an opinion, but facts and logical arguments. Like a car with a deleted DPF emitting more pollutants or being illegal in most jurisdictions is not an opinion, but a fact. You know the difference between these two, don't you?

and are too heavily invested now to back away from it. It happens to the best of us at times.
Like that you deleted your DPF, possibly broke the law, but definitely started polluting your environment with carcinogens, and then you're locked into having to defend your inappropriate actions? Yes, that sounds pretty much sound what must have happened to you. But me? I have not "invested" on anything: I didn't break the law, didn't start to pollute anything. There's nothing for me to defend. Other than my (and everyone else's) right to not have to breathe the result of your unnecessary and likely illegal modification, and my right to not get cancer from it, that is.

But please, create a separate thread that can be dedicated to your thoughts.
Why should _my_ thoughts on the topic be presented in a different thread than _yours_ (or anyone else's for that matter)? It's not even like I was the one starting to boast about what an "achievement" I've accomplished by deleting my DPF and by starting to pollute my environment more then necessary. Right?
 

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Discussion Starter #75
I see we are getting no where here. Beating a dead horse, as it were.

I wish you good luck with your ventures, Gnits.
 

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An interesting fact is that one of the naysayers in this thread has performed the TCU tune. Can we be certain that act is indeed legal and does no harm to the planet?


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An interesting fact is that one of the naysayers in this thread has performed the TCU tune. Can we be certain that act is indeed legal and does no harm to the planet?


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Shhhhhh...... Haven't you ever heard of double standards? It's only illegal when others undo VW's attempts to meet regulations.... Not when you do it because you secretly realize how retarded the approach is.
 

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is dpf delete legal - Google Search

So, check the box below that applies to you.

[_] Yes, a delete is illegal for street use.

[_] OMG! Google has been taken over by the subversives. It is a conspiracy!
 

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An interesting fact is that one of the naysayers in this thread has performed the TCU tune. Can we be certain that act is indeed legal and does no harm to the planet?


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LMFAO! That's your opinion, and yours only!

You can be certain I'm running a VW factory tuned ECU, that has been only flashed once from the factory with factory firmware. Part number is 08C 927 750 AK, and has never been tampered with.

So your "fact" is truly laughable, and you should probably be banned for posting up false facts, let alone implying that I am criminal with your leading questions.

Back to the OP... I suggest you take your Touareg in for an emissions inspection down at the local VW dealership, have them do a scan for if your emissions and ECU reflash Malone State 1 or stage 2 tune for more HP and more torque, are up to snuff, and get a written printout of the results for all of us to see here, assuming your Touareg is still registered and plated for driving on public roads in Canada.

That should answer the question for us, one and all, whether your modification is legal.
 

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Turdburgler,

Humor lightens things up so I’m pleased to make you laugh. That’s awesome!

1- I never stated it was you, nor did I mean imply it was certainly illegal to tune the Trasmission Control Unit/Module (TCU or TCM). Merely posed the question that it might not be within the OEM/EPA design emission standards to do so. I don’t know if tuning the TCU is and if somebody knows for certain, then by all means enlighten us all. To be clear, I’m not talking about the Engine Control Unit/Module (ECU or ECM). You reference your ECU being the OEM tune but I believe the part number you reference is the TCU.

2- I misread the post I was referring to early this morning and pre-caffeine. I should have wrote ... INTENDS to perform the TCU tune... So you’re correct on that misstatement by me. My apologies to all and that member in particular.

3- Is there any dispute as to whether or not a modified vehicle with a tune and delete would meet prescribed emissions standards for on road use?

4- I’m not here to state tuning the ECU or TCU is right or wrong. Do as you wish knowing the effects.
 
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