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Hello all. Can you provide honest urgent advice and guidance concerning our soon to be acquired larger caravan that we intend to tow with our R-Line Touareg;
Background;
In several weeks time, we are due to pick up a new caravan that has been built for us. The caravan which has now been built has been viewed by us which has caused serious concern due to its weight and size. The caravan company was aware from day one that we had a VW Touareg to tow our new caravan. At the time of handing over our deposit, our belief was that our Touareg was well capable of towing our new caravan. We are now seriously concerned that our Touareg will be at its outer limits towing this caravan, consequently reducing margins of safety to a level that may be unacceptable to us. However, our experience to make this judgement is minimal and we seek guidance from experienced Touareg owners who have good experience towing heavier caravans across our great land.
Facts;
1. The weight plate has now been affixed to the caravan which states; Rim size and profile - 18 x 9, Tyre size 285/65, Ball loading at tare - 189kg, Tare (of caravan) - 3065kg, GTM - 3150kg, ATM - 3500kg, Load carrying capacity - 435kg, G - TM ...I don't know what this means ?, Tyre pressure cold - 255kPa, Tyre pressure (cold) (max loading - 350kPa, Tyre Load rating - 1650kg, speed rating - Q. The plate then states that this caravan was manufactured to comply with the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1969. The tyres fitted to this vehicle shall have a speed category not less than "L" (120kmh)..which they do. The caravan is equipped with an Alko anti-sway device and has the mandated breakaway brake system, 4 wheel disc brakes. The caravan has an off-road profile but it way the internal layout we wanted that worked better with the off-road flat floor profile, hence the increased height issue.
2. The external measurement of the caravan is; Length - 9.1 metres, width - 2.4 metres, Height - 3.35 metres. These are the measurements that I took with my own tape measure. Coupled with the length of the Touareg with a tow bracket being approx 4.9 metres long, the whole "rig" will be 14 metres long...which sounds and looks a lot to me although we have been advised this is quite common now. The caravan body itself is 21ft 6inches in length. Looking at other caravans and having been to many shows, I don't dispute this assertion.
3. 2017/2018 VW Touareg R-Line owners manual weights etc; Kerb weight - 2297kg, Gross vehicle weight - 2960kg, Gross axle weight rating, front - 1460kg, Gross axle weight rating, rear - 1550kg, Maximum trailer weight with brakes, gradients up to 12% - 3500kg, Maximum trailer weight without brakes - 750kg, Maximum permitted gross combination weight - 6510kg. It is my view that we will add approx. 300 - 350kg to our Touareg ready to go on the road weight including the two of us with our trusty dog and associated travelling gear plus full 100-litre tank of BP Ultimate diesel. We will weigh approx. 2650kgs which is 310kgs under its max gross vehicle weight of 2960kgs.
3. I have been advised that the ball weight on the Touareg should be in the order of 7 - 8% of the total weight of the caravan being towed. So whilst the tare weight of the caravan has been listed at 3065kgs, I believe we will add around 150 - 200kgs to this (and that is without putting water in our water tank - I don't intend to carry water in the tank unless necessary). Equipping the caravan with (bedding/kitchen/wares /9kg TV/groceries/cleaning gear/a small foldable ladder/plastic step/water and greywater hoses/electrical leads/safety switch/privacy screen for awning/two curved arms for the awning and plastic anti flap clamps/small foldable portable fire pit + spare full-sized 2nd hand wheel and rim (35kg !) to fit the Touareg (as the space saver is not suitable due to weight restrictions) + two outside chairs and a plastic small table, two bicycles & possible more !.... I am yet to weigh all of these but I will. This will bring the caravan's weight up to approx. 3265kgs....or hopefully less. At 3265kgs - 7% = 228.55kg towball weight, with 8% = 261.20kg towball weight. At present, the towball weight of the caravan is listed at 189kgs and adding 200kgs may bring this weight to approx. 220 - 230kgs as the twin axle arrangement of the caravan has been designed and increased to reduce the weight on the towball. The caravan has off road suspension rated to 3700kgs.
4. I also have to purchase a suitable height-adjustable towing hitch to match the height of the high tow hitch of the caravan to that of the Touareg...it needs to come up approx 200mm. Apparently this is quite a common issue that is solved with a suitably profiled accessory tow hitch.
5. Whilst I have towed smaller camper vans, neither I nor my wife has ever towed anything of this size and weight. I would honestly place ourselves as having low level towing experience. We are thinking of attending a caravan towing education course.
6. The builders of the caravan acknowledge it is a bigger van, but that the Touareg is capable of towing it if driven sensibly. I don't intend to travel any faster than 90kmh under ideal conditions
7. We love the caravan, but I am trying not to let emotion get in the way of sense if we have to make a hard decision...
Urgent guidance and advice requested from experienced Touareg owners particularly those who tow large heavy caravans;
1. At present I am very concerned that whilst the Touareg is both legally permitted to tow this caravan and that it is technically capable of doing so, is it wise and safe to do so given the weight of approx 3265kg and a tow ball weight between 228 - 261kgs...? Or is it as some have said, adopt a cautious and conservative driving approach when towing the caravan until your confidence increases and it will be fine. Some have said, buy a Landcruiser or a F150 !
Any considered advice and guidance appreciated.
Markas
Melbourne
 

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Hi Markas,

Your first post certainly is a humdinger, newbies to this site normally get reprimanded for not providing more information when asking for help.....I don't think you will:giggle:

Short general answer is that with the numbers you have provided you will be sailing very close to the wind, whilst I believe the Touareg is certainly capable of hauling your rig you will be forever be checking you weights to make sure you are towing legally and not exceeding the limits.
From a legal towing perspective I do believe you would have been better off with a lighter van however it sounds to me it is too late for you to change seeing you van is about to be delivered.

My concers are primarily with the weights you have given for the van especially with it's tare and GTM (3065/3150) which leaves you a payload of 95kgs before your van becomes illegal, that is a ridiculously low figure.

I would question the weights you were given by the manufacturer as, for comparison, my van's compliance plate shows ATM 3500 / GTM 3150 / Tare 2390Kgs.
Another problem for you may well be keeping within the Touaregs max permissable tow ball weight of 285kgs, you will be ok with the GCM as you will exceed the van's ATM before then.

For now, can I suggest you pack the Touareg as you think it would be if you were going on a trip, include yourself, wife and dog, full tank of fuel plus everything else you would carry in the vehicle and get an actual weightbridge reading and compare it the Touaregs GVM (2960) and see how much weight you have left to play with, at least then you will have one actual weight to start with.

TonyB
 

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Markas
Just to reassure you that the Touareg is well capable of towing your setup compared to our setup

If you compare it to the traditionally accepted Toyo LC200 you may find the Touareg actually has a longer wheelbase by a few mm and a wider track but more importantly a much shorter distance from rear axle to towball ( lever arm) and this is what it makes such a good tow vehicle.

We have a 2015 V6 180 TDI and have towed our van for over 60,000km behind this current vehicle and the previous one (2012 TDI)

Our van is 23’6” body length on a Simplicity suspension so set reasonably high.
Our Tare is 2830 and with a payload of 550 kg at our request our ATM is 3380 kg and ball load of 230 - 240 when loaded ( not empty as per compliance plate)

I always check our weights on a weighbridge that gives me actual weight of each axle and always well under except for rear axle of Touareg which is always vey close even though we travel exceptionally light in the rear of the car.

I have my full size spare mounted on the back of the van

I run a slightly larger tire size so my speedo is 100% accurate

We travel according to the road conditions between 90 and 100 but find that the “sweet spot” seems to be an actual 93-94 and this in either gear 6 or 7 on adaptive cruise for most of the time.

Travelling at 100 is sometimes done but we find it more relaxing at 93 pr 94 and keep an eye on the mirror/ rear camera and allow passing when needed.

In all that time we have never experienced any drama moments as driving to the conditions is more important.

Fred
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi Markas,

Your first post certainly is a humdinger, newbies to this site normally get reprimanded for not providing more information when asking for help.....I don't think you will:giggle:

Short general answer is that with the numbers you have provided you will be sailing very close to the wind, whilst I believe the Touareg is certainly capable of hauling your rig you will be forever be checking you weights to make sure you are towing legally and not exceeding the limits.
From a legal towing perspective I do believe you would have been better off with a lighter van however it sounds to me it is too late for you to change seeing you van is about to be delivered.

My concers are primarily with the weights you have given for the van especially with it's tare and GTM (3065/3150) which leaves you a payload of 95kgs before your van becomes illegal, that is a ridiculously low figure.

I would question the weights you were given by the manufacturer as, for comparison, my van's compliance plate shows ATM 3500 / GTM 3150 / Tare 2390Kgs.
Another problem for you may well be keeping within the Touaregs max permissable tow ball weight of 285kgs, you will be ok with the GCM as you will exceed the van's ATM before then.

For now, can I suggest you pack the Touareg as you think it would be if you were going on a trip, include yourself, wife and dog, full tank of fuel plus everything else you would carry in the vehicle and get an actual weightbridge reading and compare it the Touaregs GVM (2960) and see how much weight you have left to play with, at least then you will have one actual weight to start with.

TonyB
Tony B

Thank you very much for your considered response.
Hello all. Can you provide honest urgent advice and guidance concerning our soon to be acquired larger caravan that we intend to tow with our R-Line Touareg;
Background;
In several weeks time, we are due to pick up a new caravan that has been built for us. The caravan which has now been built has been viewed by us which has caused serious concern due to its weight and size. The caravan company was aware from day one that we had a VW Touareg to tow our new caravan. At the time of handing over our deposit, our belief was that our Touareg was well capable of towing our new caravan. We are now seriously concerned that our Touareg will be at its outer limits towing this caravan, consequently reducing margins of safety to a level that may be unacceptable to us. However, our experience to make this judgement is minimal and we seek guidance from experienced Touareg owners who have good experience towing heavier caravans across our great land.
Facts;
1. The weight plate has now been affixed to the caravan which states; Rim size and profile - 18 x 9, Tyre size 285/65, Ball loading at tare - 189kg, Tare (of caravan) - 3065kg, GTM - 3150kg, ATM - 3500kg, Load carrying capacity - 435kg, G - TM ...I don't know what this means ?, Tyre pressure cold - 255kPa, Tyre pressure (cold) (max loading - 350kPa, Tyre Load rating - 1650kg, speed rating - Q. The plate then states that this caravan was manufactured to comply with the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1969. The tyres fitted to this vehicle shall have a speed category not less than "L" (120kmh)..which they do. The caravan is equipped with an Alko anti-sway device and has the mandated breakaway brake system, 4 wheel disc brakes. The caravan has an off-road profile but it way the internal layout we wanted that worked better with the off-road flat floor profile, hence the increased height issue.
2. The external measurement of the caravan is; Length - 9.1 metres, width - 2.4 metres, Height - 3.35 metres. These are the measurements that I took with my own tape measure. Coupled with the length of the Touareg with a tow bracket being approx 4.9 metres long, the whole "rig" will be 14 metres long...which sounds and looks a lot to me although we have been advised this is quite common now. The caravan body itself is 21ft 6inches in length. Looking at other caravans and having been to many shows, I don't dispute this assertion.
3. 2017/2018 VW Touareg R-Line owners manual weights etc; Kerb weight - 2297kg, Gross vehicle weight - 2960kg, Gross axle weight rating, front - 1460kg, Gross axle weight rating, rear - 1550kg, Maximum trailer weight with brakes, gradients up to 12% - 3500kg, Maximum trailer weight without brakes - 750kg, Maximum permitted gross combination weight - 6510kg. It is my view that we will add approx. 300 - 350kg to our Touareg ready to go on the road weight including the two of us with our trusty dog and associated travelling gear plus full 100-litre tank of BP Ultimate diesel. We will weigh approx. 2650kgs which is 310kgs under its max gross vehicle weight of 2960kgs.
3. I have been advised that the ball weight on the Touareg should be in the order of 7 - 8% of the total weight of the caravan being towed. So whilst the tare weight of the caravan has been listed at 3065kgs, I believe we will add around 150 - 200kgs to this (and that is without putting water in our water tank - I don't intend to carry water in the tank unless necessary). Equipping the caravan with (bedding/kitchen/wares /9kg TV/groceries/cleaning gear/a small foldable ladder/plastic step/water and greywater hoses/electrical leads/safety switch/privacy screen for awning/two curved arms for the awning and plastic anti flap clamps/small foldable portable fire pit + spare full-sized 2nd hand wheel and rim (35kg !) to fit the Touareg (as the space saver is not suitable due to weight restrictions) + two outside chairs and a plastic small table, two bicycles & possible more !.... I am yet to weigh all of these but I will. This will bring the caravan's weight up to approx. 3265kgs....or hopefully less. At 3265kgs - 7% = 228.55kg towball weight, with 8% = 261.20kg towball weight. At present, the towball weight of the caravan is listed at 189kgs and adding 200kgs may bring this weight to approx. 220 - 230kgs as the twin axle arrangement of the caravan has been designed and increased to reduce the weight on the towball. The caravan has off road suspension rated to 3700kgs.
4. I also have to purchase a suitable height-adjustable towing hitch to match the height of the high tow hitch of the caravan to that of the Touareg...it needs to come up approx 200mm. Apparently this is quite a common issue that is solved with a suitably profiled accessory tow hitch.
5. Whilst I have towed smaller camper vans, neither I nor my wife has ever towed anything of this size and weight. I would honestly place ourselves as having low level towing experience. We are thinking of attending a caravan towing education course.
6. The builders of the caravan acknowledge it is a bigger van, but that the Touareg is capable of towing it if driven sensibly. I don't intend to travel any faster than 90kmh under ideal conditions
7. We love the caravan, but I am trying not to let emotion get in the way of sense if we have to make a hard decision...
Urgent guidance and advice requested from experienced Touareg owners particularly those who tow large heavy caravans;
1. At present I am very concerned that whilst the Touareg is both legally permitted to tow this caravan and that it is technically capable of doing so, is it wise and safe to do so given the weight of approx 3265kg and a tow ball weight between 228 - 261kgs...? Or is it as some have said, adopt a cautious and conservative driving approach when towing the caravan until your confidence increases and it will be fine. Some have said, buy a Landcruiser or a F150 !
Any considered advice and guidance appreciated.
Markas
Melbourne
Hello all. Can you provide honest urgent advice and guidance concerning our soon to be acquired larger caravan that we intend to tow with our R-Line Touareg;
Background;
In several weeks time, we are due to pick up a new caravan that has been built for us. The caravan which has now been built has been viewed by us which has caused serious concern due to its weight and size. The caravan company was aware from day one that we had a VW Touareg to tow our new caravan. At the time of handing over our deposit, our belief was that our Touareg was well capable of towing our new caravan. We are now seriously concerned that our Touareg will be at its outer limits towing this caravan, consequently reducing margins of safety to a level that may be unacceptable to us. However, our experience to make this judgement is minimal and we seek guidance from experienced Touareg owners who have good experience towing heavier caravans across our great land.
Facts;
1. The weight plate has now been affixed to the caravan which states; Rim size and profile - 18 x 9, Tyre size 285/65, Ball loading at tare - 189kg, Tare (of caravan) - 3065kg, GTM - 3150kg, ATM - 3500kg, Load carrying capacity - 435kg, G - TM ...I don't know what this means ?, Tyre pressure cold - 255kPa, Tyre pressure (cold) (max loading - 350kPa, Tyre Load rating - 1650kg, speed rating - Q. The plate then states that this caravan was manufactured to comply with the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1969. The tyres fitted to this vehicle shall have a speed category not less than "L" (120kmh)..which they do. The caravan is equipped with an Alko anti-sway device and has the mandated breakaway brake system, 4 wheel disc brakes. The caravan has an off-road profile but it way the internal layout we wanted that worked better with the off-road flat floor profile, hence the increased height issue.
2. The external measurement of the caravan is; Length - 9.1 metres, width - 2.4 metres, Height - 3.35 metres. These are the measurements that I took with my own tape measure. Coupled with the length of the Touareg with a tow bracket being approx 4.9 metres long, the whole "rig" will be 14 metres long...which sounds and looks a lot to me although we have been advised this is quite common now. The caravan body itself is 21ft 6inches in length. Looking at other caravans and having been to many shows, I don't dispute this assertion.
3. 2017/2018 VW Touareg R-Line owners manual weights etc; Kerb weight - 2297kg, Gross vehicle weight - 2960kg, Gross axle weight rating, front - 1460kg, Gross axle weight rating, rear - 1550kg, Maximum trailer weight with brakes, gradients up to 12% - 3500kg, Maximum trailer weight without brakes - 750kg, Maximum permitted gross combination weight - 6510kg. It is my view that we will add approx. 300 - 350kg to our Touareg ready to go on the road weight including the two of us with our trusty dog and associated travelling gear plus full 100-litre tank of BP Ultimate diesel. We will weigh approx. 2650kgs which is 310kgs under its max gross vehicle weight of 2960kgs.
3. I have been advised that the ball weight on the Touareg should be in the order of 7 - 8% of the total weight of the caravan being towed. So whilst the tare weight of the caravan has been listed at 3065kgs, I believe we will add around 150 - 200kgs to this (and that is without putting water in our water tank - I don't intend to carry water in the tank unless necessary). Equipping the caravan with (bedding/kitchen/wares /9kg TV/groceries/cleaning gear/a small foldable ladder/plastic step/water and greywater hoses/electrical leads/safety switch/privacy screen for awning/two curved arms for the awning and plastic anti flap clamps/small foldable portable fire pit + spare full-sized 2nd hand wheel and rim (35kg !) to fit the Touareg (as the space saver is not suitable due to weight restrictions) + two outside chairs and a plastic small table, two bicycles & possible more !.... I am yet to weigh all of these but I will. This will bring the caravan's weight up to approx. 3265kgs....or hopefully less. At 3265kgs - 7% = 228.55kg towball weight, with 8% = 261.20kg towball weight. At present, the towball weight of the caravan is listed at 189kgs and adding 200kgs may bring this weight to approx. 220 - 230kgs as the twin axle arrangement of the caravan has been designed and increased to reduce the weight on the towball. The caravan has off road suspension rated to 3700kgs.
4. I also have to purchase a suitable height-adjustable towing hitch to match the height of the high tow hitch of the caravan to that of the Touareg...it needs to come up approx 200mm. Apparently this is quite a common issue that is solved with a suitably profiled accessory tow hitch.
5. Whilst I have towed smaller camper vans, neither I nor my wife has ever towed anything of this size and weight. I would honestly place ourselves as having low level towing experience. We are thinking of attending a caravan towing education course.
6. The builders of the caravan acknowledge it is a bigger van, but that the Touareg is capable of towing it if driven sensibly. I don't intend to travel any faster than 90kmh under ideal conditions
7. We love the caravan, but I am trying not to let emotion get in the way of sense if we have to make a hard decision...
Urgent guidance and advice requested from experienced Touareg owners particularly those who tow large heavy caravans;
1. At present I am very concerned that whilst the Touareg is both legally permitted to tow this caravan and that it is technically capable of doing so, is it wise and safe to do so given the weight of approx 3265kg and a tow ball weight between 228 - 261kgs...? Or is it as some have said, adopt a cautious and conservative driving approach when towing the caravan until your confidence increases and it will be fine. Some have said, buy a Landcruiser or a F150 !
Any considered advice and guidance appreciated.
Markas
Melbourne
Hi Markas,

Your first post certainly is a humdinger, newbies to this site normally get reprimanded for not providing more information when asking for help.....I don't think you will:giggle:

Short general answer is that with the numbers you have provided you will be sailing very close to the wind, whilst I believe the Touareg is certainly capable of hauling your rig you will be forever be checking you weights to make sure you are towing legally and not exceeding the limits.
From a legal towing perspective I do believe you would have been better off with a lighter van however it sounds to me it is too late for you to change seeing you van is about to be delivered.

My concers are primarily with the weights you have given for the van especially with it's tare and GTM (3065/3150) which leaves you a payload of 95kgs before your van becomes illegal, that is a ridiculously low figure.

I would question the weights you were given by the manufacturer as, for comparison, my van's compliance plate shows ATM 3500 / GTM 3150 / Tare 2390Kgs.
Another problem for you may well be keeping within the Touaregs max permissable tow ball weight of 285kgs, you will be ok with the GCM as you will exceed the van's ATM before then.

For now, can I suggest you pack the Touareg as you think it would be if you were going on a trip, include yourself, wife and dog, full tank of fuel plus everything else you would carry in the vehicle and get an actual weightbridge reading and compare it the Touaregs GVM (2960) and see how much weight you have left to play with, at least then you will have one actual weight to start with.

TonyB


Tony B
Thanks very much and further information to add to this. I will check the weights again with the manufacturer. If what you say is correct in that I only have 95kgs to play with them its game over. Yet they have stated on the spec plate the Load Carrying capacity is 435kgs ? Will keep you posted. Thanks again.

Markas
Melbourne
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Markas
Just to reassure you that the Touareg is well capable of towing your setup compared to our setup

If you compare it to the traditionally accepted Toyo LC200 you may find the Touareg actually has a longer wheelbase by a few mm and a wider track but more importantly a much shorter distance from rear axle to towball ( lever arm) and this is what it makes such a good tow vehicle.

We have a 2015 V6 180 TDI and have towed our van for over 60,000km behind this current vehicle and the previous one (2012 TDI)

Our van is 23’6” body length on a Simplicity suspension so set reasonably high.
Our Tare is 2830 and with a payload of 550 kg at our request our ATM is 3380 kg and ball load of 230 - 240 when loaded ( not empty as per compliance plate)

I always check our weights on a weighbridge that gives me actual weight of each axle and always well under except for rear axle of Touareg which is always vey close even though we travel exceptionally light in the rear of the car.

I have my full size spare mounted on the back of the van

I run a slightly larger tire size so my speedo is 100% accurate

We travel according to the road conditions between 90 and 100 but find that the “sweet spot” seems to be an actual 93-94 and this in either gear 6 or 7 on adaptive cruise for most of the time.

Travelling at 100 is sometimes done but we find it more relaxing at 93 pr 94 and keep an eye on the mirror/ rear camera and allow passing when needed.

In all that time we have never experienced any drama moments as driving to the conditions is more important.

Fred
Fred

Thanks for the reassurance and your vlaued expereinces in towing a heavy rig with your Touareg. I have no doubt it will do it, but its my reassurance/confidence as well as clarifying the weight ATM/GTM/Tare issue that needs to be progressed to solve all this now. Will keep you posted. Thanks again.

Markas
Melbourne
 

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Hi Markas,
With the numbers you are posting, I am not really seeing an issue. These rigs can legally tow up to 3500kg with a towball weight of 280kgs. Obviously when you load the van up you can manipulate where you put things to balance the towball weight out a little bit. Best bet is to obviously go to a weighbridge sometime with all your gear packed as if you were travelling, including water tanks filled. If it was me, I would get a weight of all this, then I would drive off the weighbridge and go and dump the water. Then get another weight of everything without water in it.
I only tow 2.7T jayco with mine and it is a 22 footer but as mentioned above, the stats on the touareg's are better than a cruiser, except for towball weight. I am assuming yours has air suspension as well so be careful with putting a big heavy duty weight distribution hitch on it. I use an anderson hitch on mine which has anti sway properties but also has WDH properties without being over bearing. I am still an avid believer that all cars with big vans need some sort of WDH system to place some weight back onto the front wheels but that's another totally different discussion which doesn't need to happen here.
The touareg's are very underrated as tow vehicles. Just be smart with your packing and I think you will have plenty of enjoyable hours towing. My whole setup tows better at 110km/hr than what it does at 90km/hr so figure that but I have taken my time to ensure that it is setup correctly.
 

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TonyB
Hi Markas,



My concers are primarily with the weights you have given for the van especially with it's tare and GTM (3065/3150) which leaves you a payload of 95kgs before your van becomes illegal, that is a ridiculously low figure.

I would question the weights you were given by the manufacturer as, for comparison, my van's compliance plate shows ATM 3500 / GTM 3150 / Tare 2390Kgs.
Another problem for you may well be keeping within the Touaregs max permissable tow ball weight of 285kgs, you will be ok with the GCM as you will exceed the van's ATM before then.


TonyB
Markas,

Clarification is required regarding part of my post regarding payload, please disregard the 95Kgs I mentioned.

Your payload is 365Kgs, ATM is 3,150Kgs and TBW is 280Kgs.

Whether you can deal with such a lowish payload is your call, you mentioned travelling without water in tanks, that becomes a chore unless mainly using mains water in caravan parks, you also mentioned spare wheel mounting, is that 35kgs going against the available payload? What about carrying Jerry cans with emergency water and fuel?

Here is the logic behind the numbers:
The van manufacturer specified ATM at 3500kgs, also specified is GTM at 3150.
The GTM of 3150 is a calculated number being the ATM less ball mass they assume as being 350Kgs (3500-350 = 3150).
Because yours and all 7P Touareg's, max TBW is 280 your payload equals (ATM) 3500 - 3065 (Tare) + 280 (Max TBW) = 365 Kgs, effectively loosing 70kgs (because you have 280 and not 350 max TBW).
Effectively whilst you tow with the 7L your ATM now becomes is 3,430kgs (3,150 + 280) and not 3500Kgs.

Definitions of towing weights can be found here:

TonyB
 

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Markas, plenty of interesting opinions in this thread,

Here's my take on your scenario.

Firstly based on the info you have put up in your original post your weights are absolutely no problem what so ever for the Touareg.

You have stated that the van's Tare weight is 3065 kg's with a ATM of 3500 kg's. This gives you 435 kg's of load carrying capacity in the van which in my experience is more then enough.

Sounds like you have bought a fairly decent size van but by modern standards its actually quite common.

I tow a similar size van quite regularly and I can assure you the Touareg Rline is more then capable of handling your van. Your comment re getting some education re towing is a great idea if you haven't done any heavy towing in the past. I recommend that you do some shorter trips to places that you know quite well so that your not distracted by the task of navigating at the same time as you are getting used to towing the van, by going to familiar places you at least know what to expect before you get there.

Also worth noting that the advertised kerb weight of the Touareg already includes the driver and fuel, from memory I think VW allows around 75 kg's for the driver and 80% of fuel capacity which is close enough to 80 kg's so around 150 kg;s of your load is already included in the Kerb weight.

When I travel I pack the bare minimum in the car preferring to load the van with all but the traveling necessities, this way I can distribute the weight properly in the van. I also tow with the water tanks full as the extra low slung weight helps keep the van stable, in your case even with 2 full water tanks (approximately 150 kg's) you still have almost 300 kg's for luggage which I find to be more then enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi Markas,
With the numbers you are posting, I am not really seeing an issue. These rigs can legally tow up to 3500kg with a towball weight of 280kgs. Obviously when you load the van up you can manipulate where you put things to balance the towball weight out a little bit. Best bet is to obviously go to a weighbridge sometime with all your gear packed as if you were travelling, including water tanks filled. If it was me, I would get a weight of all this, then I would drive off the weighbridge and go and dump the water. Then get another weight of everything without water in it.
I only tow 2.7T jayco with mine and it is a 22 footer but as mentioned above, the stats on the touareg's are better than a cruiser, except for towball weight. I am assuming yours has air suspension as well so be careful with putting a big heavy duty weight distribution hitch on it. I use an anderson hitch on mine which has anti sway properties but also has WDH properties without being over bearing. I am still an avid believer that all cars with big vans need some sort of WDH system to place some weight back onto the front wheels but that's another totally different discussion which doesn't need to happen here.
The touareg's are very underrated as tow vehicles. Just be smart with your packing and I think you will have plenty of enjoyable hours towing. My whole setup tows better at 110km/hr than what it does at 90km/hr so figure that but I have taken my time to ensure that it is setup correctly.
Snerlo

Thank you for your advice and it will go into the "bucket" of considerations I am making concerning our new van. Yes, our Touareg has air suspension and I note in the owners manual that VW advises not to use weight distribution devices. I have noted that some Touareg owners have fitted them anyway. I suppose that if anything went wrong there may be an issue with VW honouring their warranties in this situation. An individual call perhaps tempered with experience, knowledge and mechanical understanding. It's also interesting what you have said concerning the Landcruiser compared to the Touareg.

Regards

Markas
 

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Hi Markas,



My concers are primarily with the weights you have given for the van especially with it's tare and GTM (3065/3150) which leaves you a payload of 95kgs before your van becomes illegal, that is a ridiculously low figure.

I would question the weights you were given by the manufacturer as, for comparison, my van's compliance plate shows ATM 3500 / GTM 3150 / Tare 2390Kgs.
Another problem for you may well be keeping within the Touaregs max permissable tow ball weight of 285kgs, you will be ok with the GCM as you will exceed the van's ATM before then.


TonyB
Markas,

Clarification is required regarding part of my post regarding payload, please disregard the 95Kgs I mentioned.

Your payload is 365Kgs, ATM is 3,150Kgs and TBW is 280Kgs.

Whether you can deal with such a lowish payload is your call, you mentioned travelling without water in tanks, that becomes a chore unless mainly using mains water in caravan parks, you also mentioned spare wheel mounting, is that 35kgs going against the available payload? What about carrying Jerry cans with emergency water and fuel?

Here is the logic behind the numbers:
The van manufacturer specified ATM at 3500kgs, also specified is GTM at 3150.
The GTM of 3150 is a calculated number being the ATM less ball mass they assume as being 350Kgs (3500-350 = 3150).
Because yours and all 7P Touareg's, max TBW is 280 your payload equals (ATM) 3500 - 3065 (Tare) + 280 (Max TBW) = 365 Kgs, effectively loosing 70kgs (because you have 280 and not 350 max TBW).
Effectively whilst you tow with the 7L your ATM now becomes is 3,430kgs (3,150 + 280) and not 3500Kgs.

Definitions of towing weights can be found here:

TonyB
Tony B

Thanks again for your correction and update which is both good and bad news as it now appears I have a reduced figure of 365kgs before I max out so to speak with this new caravan. Your explanation figures explain it well and I will be consulting the manufacturer, who as they have stated on the spec plate for the caravan state it has a carrying capacity of 435kgs, the response will be interesting.

Regards

Markas
Melbourne
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Markas, plenty of interesting opinions in this thread,

Here's my take on your scenario.

Firstly based on the info you have put up in your original post your weights are absolutely no problem what so ever for the Touareg.

You have stated that the van's Tare weight is 3065 kg's with a ATM of 3500 kg's. This gives you 435 kg's of load carrying capacity in the van which in my experience is more then enough.

Sounds like you have bought a fairly decent size van but by modern standards its actually quite common.

I tow a similar size van quite regularly and I can assure you the Touareg Rline is more then capable of handling your van. Your comment re getting some education re towing is a great idea if you haven't done any heavy towing in the past. I recommend that you do some shorter trips to places that you know quite well so that your not distracted by the task of navigating at the same time as you are getting used to towing the van, by going to familiar places you at least know what to expect before you get there.

Also worth noting that the advertised kerb weight of the Touareg already includes the driver and fuel, from memory I think VW allows around 75 kg's for the driver and 80% of fuel capacity which is close enough to 80 kg's so around 150 kg;s of your load is already included in the Kerb weight.

When I travel I pack the bare minimum in the car preferring to load the van with all but the traveling necessities, this way I can distribute the weight properly in the van. I also tow with the water tanks full as the extra low slung weight helps keep the van stable, in your case even with 2 full water tanks (approximately 150 kg's) you still have almost 300 kg's for luggage which I find to be more then enough.
paulie 0735

Thank you for your considered opinion and I am I have to say very comforted by the breadth of knowledge and experience from all who are contributing to my post and plea for advice and guidance. I wasn't aware that VW included the driver and 80% fuel in the kerb weight figure wich = approx. 150kgs...thi is good isn't it as it provides more weight scope for the car and overall weights of the car and caravan...please clarify? We have one 200litre water tank -= 200kgs if full. I understand the low slung weight assistance argument but with our vans, limited weight capacity now possibly reduced to 365kgs (see Tony B's last post which I will also check), I won't be travelling with much if any water in the tank.

If I load the van right up to its max weight that may well exceed the Tourages max ball weight and I won't do that obviously. It appears I will need to be cautious and smart with how much weight we add and where.

Thanks again.

Markas
Melbourne
 

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All of this is of course conjecture at the moment because until you have verified the weight of the van this is all just hypothetical. Your 1st stop after picking up the van should be the nearest public weigh bridge so you can get an 'actual' tare weight of the van as its delivered to you before you ad anything including water. The manufacturer of the van will usually get the tare weight fairly close but then any dealer fitted options need to be added to the tare. So until you have visited the weigh bridge you won't really know your actual load capacity. BTW your 200L water tank won't actually hold 200 lt, in fact if you can get 170 in it you will be doing very well.
 

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Hi Markas,



My concers are primarily with the weights you have given for the van especially with it's tare and GTM (3065/3150) which leaves you a payload of 95kgs before your van becomes illegal, that is a ridiculously low figure.

I would question the weights you were given by the manufacturer as, for comparison, my van's compliance plate shows ATM 3500 / GTM 3150 / Tare 2390Kgs.
Another problem for you may well be keeping within the Touaregs max permissable tow ball weight of 285kgs, you will be ok with the GCM as you will exceed the van's ATM before then.


TonyB
Markas,

Clarification is required regarding part of my post regarding payload, please disregard the 95Kgs I mentioned.

Your payload is 365Kgs, ATM is 3,150Kgs and TBW is 280Kgs.

Whether you can deal with such a lowish payload is your call, you mentioned travelling without water in tanks, that becomes a chore unless mainly using mains water in caravan parks, you also mentioned spare wheel mounting, is that 35kgs going against the available payload? What about carrying Jerry cans with emergency water and fuel?

Here is the logic behind the numbers:
The van manufacturer specified ATM at 3500kgs, also specified is GTM at 3150.
The GTM of 3150 is a calculated number being the ATM less ball mass they assume as being 350Kgs (3500-350 = 3150).
Because yours and all 7P Touareg's, max TBW is 280 your payload equals (ATM) 3500 - 3065 (Tare) + 280 (Max TBW) = 365 Kgs, effectively loosing 70kgs (because you have 280 and not 350 max TBW).
Effectively whilst you tow with the 7L your ATM now becomes is 3,430kgs (3,150 + 280) and not 3500Kgs.

Definitions of towing weights can be found here:

TonyB
Tony B

Thanks again and to answer your questions; I am concerned that on your figures our payload is now 365kgs. Whilst it will be enough in my view the issue of carrying water at times may be an issue which we will just have to manage. As for the spare tyre/rim yes I do intend to mount it on the rear bar of the caravan. The caravans spare tyre is also there for that adds 35kgs reducing our payload to 335kgs. Could I carry it in the rear boot of the Touareg and therefore negate a 35kgs deduction on the van's payload as we will have probably in the order of 300Kgs payload plus available in the Touareg before reaching its 2960kgs maximum weight. Thanks also for the link on towing weights.

Markas
Melbourne
 

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Discussion Starter #14
All of this is of course conjecture at the moment because until you have verified the weight of the van this is all just hypothetical. Your 1st stop after picking up the van should be the nearest public weigh bridge so you can get an 'actual' tare weight of the van as its delivered to you before you ad anything including water. The manufacturer of the van will usually get the tare weight fairly close but then any dealer fitted options need to be added to the tare. So until you have visited the weigh bridge you won't really know your actual load capacity. BTW your 200L water tank won't actually hold 200 lt, in fact if you can get 170 in it you will be doing very well.
paulie0735

Well done again and your suggestions above are what I was going to do first up. Thanks also for the tip on the water tank holding capacity probably being down around the 170 litre mark.

Cheers

Markas
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Discussion Starter #15
Hi Markas,

Your first post certainly is a humdinger, newbies to this site normally get reprimanded for not providing more information when asking for help.....I don't think you will:giggle:

Short general answer is that with the numbers you have provided you will be sailing very close to the wind, whilst I believe the Touareg is certainly capable of hauling your rig you will be forever be checking you weights to make sure you are towing legally and not exceeding the limits.
From a legal towing perspective I do believe you would have been better off with a lighter van however it sounds to me it is too late for you to change seeing you van is about to be delivered.

My concers are primarily with the weights you have given for the van especially with it's tare and GTM (3065/3150) which leaves you a payload of 95kgs before your van becomes illegal, that is a ridiculously low figure.

I would question the weights you were given by the manufacturer as, for comparison, my van's compliance plate shows ATM 3500 / GTM 3150 / Tare 2390Kgs.
Another problem for you may well be keeping within the Touaregs max permissable tow ball weight of 285kgs, you will be ok with the GCM as you will exceed the van's ATM before then.

For now, can I suggest you pack the Touareg as you think it would be if you were going on a trip, include yourself, wife and dog, full tank of fuel plus everything else you would carry in the vehicle and get an actual weightbridge reading and compare it the Touaregs GVM (2960) and see how much weight you have left to play with, at least then you will have one actual weight to start with.

TonyB

Tony B

I will take and act on all the advice points you have made...particularly the 85kgs diff. in the 3065Tare and 3150GTM.

Thanks again

Markas
Melbourne
Markas
Just to reassure you that the Touareg is well capable of towing your setup compared to our setup

If you compare it to the traditionally accepted Toyo LC200 you may find the Touareg actually has a longer wheelbase by a few mm and a wider track but more importantly a much shorter distance from rear axle to towball ( lever arm) and this is what it makes such a good tow vehicle.

We have a 2015 V6 180 TDI and have towed our van for over 60,000km behind this current vehicle and the previous one (2012 TDI)

Our van is 23’6” body length on a Simplicity suspension so set reasonably high.
Our Tare is 2830 and with a payload of 550 kg at our request our ATM is 3380 kg and ball load of 230 - 240 when loaded ( not empty as per compliance plate)

I always check our weights on a weighbridge that gives me actual weight of each axle and always well under except for rear axle of Touareg which is always vey close even though we travel exceptionally light in the rear of the car.

I have my full size spare mounted on the back of the van

I run a slightly larger tire size so my speedo is 100% accurate

We travel according to the road conditions between 90 and 100 but find that the “sweet spot” seems to be an actual 93-94 and this in either gear 6 or 7 on adaptive cruise for most of the time.

Travelling at 100 is sometimes done but we find it more relaxing at 93 pr 94 and keep an eye on the mirror/ rear camera and allow passing when needed.

In all that time we have never experienced any drama moments as driving to the conditions is more important.

Fred

Fred

Thank you for your informed response to my questions. Your advice and experience in these matters are much appreciated. I had similar thoughts on tow speeds, axle weights, etc . I have gained confidence that our Touareg will be capable for our new van, we just need to be smart about it all.

Regards

Markas
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Hi Markas
We also tow a carvan - with a 2017 V8 Touareg. (spolit for power)

We are relatively new at towing the caravan, with only 12 months experience. Hence, remain very cautious.

Our van is 20.6' Zone Venture (semi off road) - with Tare of 2210 and payload of 1090kgs. ATM 3300. Ball weight (Tare 165kgs) but is around 240-250kgs, when loaded (without water). Weight limits (Kerb, GVM, Ball weight) for the V8 Touareg is the same as the V6 Touareg.

We am very conscious not to run at the margins (weight limits). We try to travel light, but that may change when we set off for an extended trip.

We have downsized the Touareg wheels from 21" to 18" wheels with higher (65) profile Pirelli tyres. Speedo is also spot on, with an improvement in fuel economy. Last trip north fuel economy was around 16.5Ltrs/100ks (mostly highway travel). This seems to be quite favourable when compared to the LC and other utes.

We carry a full size spare as well as the stock.

The main issue we face (other than idiots on the road) is wind. Particularly, coming across the vehicle. We avoid travelling on windy days.

We also travel between 90 & 100 - as stability is a concern at higher speeds. I guess this part of driving within the limits of your vehicle and to the conditions.

Happy travels :)

Mike
 

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Mike
In relation to your wind concern on the 18 tyres try increasing the rear car tyres to around 45 and dropping fronts back to around 33-35 ( all cold pressures) and these should increase by around 4 or 5 psi after travelling for an hour or so

Also van tyres need to be pretty close to optimum

Look at Tyre rating and do a proportional adjustment of max capacity / max pressure to actual capacity / suggested pressure

I found that the difference in towing once I got my pressures right was a vast improvement over what I had earlier
 

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Mike
In relation to your wind concern on the 18 tyres try increasing the rear car tyres to around 45 and dropping fronts back to around 33-35 ( all cold pressures) and these should increase by around 4 or 5 psi after travelling for an hour or so

Also van tyres need to be pretty close to optimum

Look at Tyre rating and do a proportional adjustment of max capacity / max pressure to actual capacity / suggested pressure

I found that the difference in towing once I got my pressures right was a vast improvement over what I had earlier
Hi Fred
Thank you for your advice. I tend to run my Touareg tyres around 42psi (front & back) and the manufactures recommended pressure for the van. Lower pressure at the front is something I am going to try.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi Markas
We also tow a carvan - with a 2017 V8 Touareg. (spolit for power)

We are relatively new at towing the caravan, with only 12 months experience. Hence, remain very cautious.

Our van is 20.6' Zone Venture (semi off road) - with Tare of 2210 and payload of 1090kgs. ATM 3300. Ball weight (Tare 165kgs) but is around 240-250kgs, when loaded (without water). Weight limits (Kerb, GVM, Ball weight) for the V8 Touareg is the same as the V6 Touareg.

We am very conscious not to run at the margins (weight limits). We try to travel light, but that may change when we set off for an extended trip.

We have downsized the Touareg wheels from 21" to 18" wheels with higher (65) profile Pirelli tyres. Speedo is also spot on, with an improvement in fuel economy. Last trip north fuel economy was around 16.5Ltrs/100ks (mostly highway travel). This seems to be quite favourable when compared to the LC and other utes.

We carry a full size spare as well as the stock.

The main issue we face (other than idiots on the road) is wind. Particularly, coming across the vehicle. We avoid travelling on windy days.

We also travel between 90 & 100 - as stability is a concern at higher speeds. I guess this part of driving within the limits of your vehicle and to the conditions.

Happy travels :)

Mike
Mike

Thank you for your input on this one. I would be interested to see what your approx. loaded travelling weight is if you could please ? It is amazing you have over a ton of payload, bring your ATM to 3330 ! Your tips about margin weight limits, wheels, wind...which I think will be a necessary consideration with our van being approx. 3.3m high..although this is an unloaded height. And finally, the 90-100kmh travel speed issue limits of vehicle/conditions are also salient.

Thanks again.

Markas
Melbourne
 

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Marakas
Our van height is 3.1 m to top of air conditioner and 2.8 to top of side walls

Our Tare is 2830 kg with 550 kg payload equals 3380 kg

Our usual travel weight for shorter trips (1-3 weeks) is around 3150 to 3200 but for longer trips (1-6;months) we get close to 3350 as we carry a few extra items and full tanks of water

I use a weighbridge that measures each axle individually as we set off on every trip. The $16 it costs me is good peace of mind knowing I am legal
 
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