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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi friends.
I hope you had a lovely Christmas. I certainly didn't...
My Treg has a fault code, Intermittent turbo control unit fault. I had my laptop in the car while on the move, and when I deleted the fault code, a slight increase of engine power could be noticed, but then fault code again. But I cannot figure out why. Sometimes the code would be gone for 15 minutes even, during which I could floor it, stop, start again, floor it again, all seems nice, and then out of nowhere the fault cometh back. I have screenshots of measuring groups graph, no sudden drop or increase in turbo pressure, no serious lag, nothing happens when it decides to shut the charger off. I was in a car wash the oter day, and then the fault was gone for about two days, so I'm thinking about some wiring loom issues. If anyone hasseen anything like this please help me otherwise the endless depths of the never ending void of total insanity would rob me of my soul. Again.. Thanks guys
241867

red: mass air flow sensor
dark blue: turbo control % (drops to 12% when error occures and stays there)
white: accelerator pedal %
light blue: boost pressure (anticipated)
green: boost pressure (actual)
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241868

red: engine speed
orange: mass air flow sensor
white: turbo control % (12% again when error)
green: boost pressure (anticipated)
yellow: boost pressure (actual)
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241870
 

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Check this out

Possible Causes

  • Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Turbo Charger Control Module 2 faulty
  • Turbo Charger Control Module 2 faulty
  • Turbo Charger faulty
Possible Solutions

  • Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Turbo Charger Control Module 2
  • Check/Replace Turbo Charger Control Module 2
  • Check/Replace Turbo Charger
Special Notes

  • When found in VW Touareg (7L) OR VW Phaeton (3D) with V10 TDI (AJS, AYH, BLE, BWF), check Turbo Charger Linkage and Linkage Seal for Damage. If no Damage is found replace Turbo Charger as described in TPI 2009705.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Happy new year!
Yes I have seen that, but I don't really fancy pulling the whole engine out to make sure it is not a wiring issue. I was hoping someone would be able to see something rare and sinister on these graphs, as it is now usual with my Treg... The turbo control unit is now less than a year old as the whole turbo has been restored by Revolution VW Specialists Ltd. from the UK. Ever since it was stellar, but the last month came this problem. Just now I was able to come 20 miles with it without any problem, then the last mile from the shop where I stopped, the turbo was done again. Totally inconsistent problem as far as I can see...
 

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Happy new year!
Yes I have seen that, but I don't really fancy pulling the whole engine out to make sure it is not a wiring issue. I was hoping someone would be able to see something rare and sinister on these graphs, as it is now usual with my Treg... The turbo control unit is now less than a year old as the whole turbo has been restored by Revolution VW Specialists Ltd. from the UK. Ever since it was stellar, but the last month came this problem. Just now I was able to come 20 miles with it without any problem, then the last mile from the shop where I stopped, the turbo was done again. Totally inconsistent problem as far as I can see...
If you cycle the ignition will it return to normal for a while?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Usually it does, but very rarely it immediately stores the fault right after ignition was turned on, and it doesn't even cycles the actuator. But most of the times both turbos work after I cycle the key.
 

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Usually it does, but very rarely it immediately stores the fault right after ignition was turned on, and it doesn't even cycles the actuator. But most of the times both turbos work after I cycle the key.
I have noticed a few V10 owners (inc me) have similar problems, mine when towing after aprox 2 to 2 1/2 hrs, cycle the ign then you could continue or might have to repeat then no problems on the way home. It did do it once about 2years ago whilst not towing. I assumed it was heat related but keen to get to the bottom of this fault if yours is the same as mine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Might have some truth to that, as I had no problem with the turbos after going through a car wash. For about an hour or so.. And I think it didn't do it on my last trip, as I have removed the bottom covers, and it was pretty chilly that night. But I also heard someone say that it could clog up the EGR tube and indeed I might be hearing some hissing sound from around that side, forward of the turbos, and it is not the AC, and shouldn't be the turbo whistling as it was already down, so that might be something. Also the intake manifold was half it's original diameter when I first took it off, so I guess the ports in the cyl head could clog up as well, as I was an idiot and didn't even look when I was there... I will post it here if I find something.
 

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Might have some truth to that, as I had no problem with the turbos after going through a car wash. For about an hour or so.. And I think it didn't do it on my last trip, as I have removed the bottom covers, and it was pretty chilly that night. But I also heard someone say that it could clog up the EGR tube and indeed I might be hearing some hissing sound from around that side, forward of the turbos, and it is not the AC, and shouldn't be the turbo whistling as it was already down, so that might be something. Also the intake manifold was half it's original diameter when I first took it off, so I guess the ports in the cyl head could clog up as well, as I was an idiot and didn't even look when I was there... I will post it here if I find something.
I have my EGR completely deleted and i also removed and cleaned the intake manifolds and cleaned the ports in the head, unfortunately it made no difference to the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I see. And have you monitored the turbos while on the move? If the actual pressure of the turbos is seriously different from the anticipated pressure it makes the same fault code. Or if the pressure is ok, but it lags seconds behind it also does the same... Mine unfortunately is completely independent from any of this... Since the post I have made two other trips with mine, and the turbo shuts off to 12% without a change in airflow, egr, pressure, or lambda... I dont see a logic here, something has to change if the control unit decides that the turbo is not working correctly, and if that is not the air output of the turbo, I don't know what is. I can think of a wiring issue, as sometimes I delete the code and turbo comes back online for a couple of minutes, but sometimes the code is immediately back after I delete it, suggesting a continous problem. So as far as I can decipher this, it is an intermittent error, but if the turbo is old or worn, it would be bad all the time... I would hate to pull the engine again for some wire that lost it's coating. The bleeding edge of technology...
 

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Have you done the basics? Checked the wiring connector and the actuator rods and the c-clips?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sorry for long pause, I have been ripping the whole cable loom from the engine. Yes I have checked the rods and clips, and they are fine. They have been installed about a year ago, when I had the engine out. The behaviour of the fault makes me think that it is a wiring issue, or a control unit issue, although the units have been restored when the turbos were off. If there was a mechanical error it wouldn't cause an error until the servo tried to move, but I had this error while the engine was off, ignition on, and they cycled, got an error code. Cleared it, went for an output test, no movement, and fault code again. Cycled the key, again the whole procedure, and suddenly it worked again, and moved without any resistance. And it did it when it was cold, or hot, so not temperature related, not pressure related, as the freeze frame shows the actual and anticipated pressures to be within 3 to 5% of each other at the worst of times, not speed related, as it can do it standing still, or on the move, and not weather related as it does it whether it rains or not. I actually found a lot of people having this exact same trouble, sometimes both turbos, sometimes one. But it would be a blessing to know why the control unit thought that the actuator was faulty, was it a communications error, or it went offline for a moment, was it a logic error that it tried to lower the pressure but it kept rising, or was it a ground conection issue... So now I will try and pull of the metal tube from the turbo on the pressure side, so I could pull the short cable adaptor loom out, and give it a look.. After which I only have one Idea, that I would tap into the cables on the turbo,and watch them on a scope until it makes the error. The two data cables are twisted around each other, that is a telltale that it has got high freqency low power signals running around it, so they are highly sensitive to electrical noise. We'll see I guess. Thanks a lot folks, I will post here my findings should anyone be unfortunate enough to have the same issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So after an engine out period, I'm back. I have no solutions just yet, I have inspected the actuator arms, and the whole cable loom. I have stripped the loom of it's plastic tubing, and shrink tape, inspected every inch of every line... I have found one or two spots where the insulation have been damaged, and possibly shorting to ground, mainly on the starter side, where the plastic tubing was brittle, and missing due to years of soaking in engine oil. Replaced those, ran a continuity check while wiggling the whole thing yet nothing... Changed the crankshaft mainseal while I was at it, and the seal of the torque converter. Be careful with the damned thing, as I inserted it badly, and the two teeth that drive the oil pump in the transmission did not engage with the holes on the torque converter. I was aware of this problem, but it jumped somewhat back, I thought it slid into position. After hearing a clicking while I was doing the bolts, I took all back out and noticed that the face, on the outsideperimeter of the torque converter with the six holes for the bolts, where it's touching the driveplate on the crankshaft should be deeper in than the plane of the bell housing. About half an inch deeper... Another good method is to continously check while doing the bolts that the torque converter can rotate freely through the window on the side of the bell housing. It should be easy to rotate with a screwdriver.

Anyway, I've installed the engine, put it all back together, and still fault code 18361 Control module defective. Bought a new version of VCDS, it lists more stuff than the old one, but the Bin. Bits is still unknown. When the error is continously present, I can do an output test on the actuator, but it does nothing. When I enter basic settings however, and select group 011, the actuator moves again. Yet it does not say Incorrect adaptation, just that it's faulty... Sometimes I get an error on the oxigen sensor as well, but it usually goes away for hundreds of miles.
Any thoughts Gents?
 

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Sounds like a headache, at that point if just go with a non vcds turbos and a wastegate and get it tuned and delete that variable crap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It's Good News... My charger is finally working. The fault was a stereotipical chineese made Hella-Garrett actuator. The new module had a new electronic control board, but the electric motor was old, and the soldering was less than satisfactory... I will create a new post for this topic as I've seen quite a lot of us struggling with the same issue. But long story short, in VCDS go to measuring group No 58. In that group you will find the expected boost pressure, then the actual boost pressure, and then two eight digit error code binary strings. If the last string is 00110000 (when hot, and the fault code returns after deleting) , that means simultaneously "position too high" and "position too low". I think this means that the control unit cannot move the vanes, either because the mechanism got stuck, OR the module is wonky... By that I mean that there is a soldered bit where usually movement is restricted by the soldered wire shown in the red ellipse below, and due to thermal expansion the connection is not consistent. The other problem could be the motor itself. Being a DC motor, it has copper commutators, and since the module is not glued, but sealed by a single square ring, oxigen can compromise the commutator material, black in appereance, and giving a resistance to the motor of over 150 ohms. As it should be under 10 ohms, this is over a ten times lower output power, the motor may not have enough torque to do what it should, especially when hot, as usually copper wire is a positive resistance coefficient material, so with heat going up, the resistance will go up as well, further lowering the output power.
244072

To sum up... Resolder the indicated points, even when there is no visible damage, and make it like the rest of the contacts, a triangular shape to allow for thermal expansion... And take the motor apart, and attack the commutator rings with some scotchbright until the whole commutator has an adequate brass color.

BE ADVISED that even some brand new looking modules are having the same issue, as some "new" modules are actually old ones with the electronic board refitted with a new one, but the motor is the same (aka about 15 years old), and the soldering is questionable.....

Since this modification I had no issues with the same module whatsoever...

I hope you find this useful.
Steven
 
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