Starting a new thread here to gauge what interest there would be to have the ability to change and control the torque convertor lock up for the Australian region T3 Touareg.
The Touareg is no doubt a great all rounder as a family car, perfect for the holidays, towing, and the long distant drives are comfortable but what I’ve found during city driving (which in my scenario is 90% of the time) the TC lockup logic really ruins the driving experience. Some other members have noticed this characteristic and have questioned it but for those that haven’t please let me know if this applies to you and if you would like to change something about it, understanding most have probably learnt to live with it or isn’t enough of an issue to bother them or just have not felt what the car could drive like if there was a change to the TC lock up logic.
Most should be familiar that once the transmission shifts into 3rd gear, almost immediately the TC lockup solenoid modulates and lock up occurs very early at approximately 30-32kms. It almost feels as if there was another gear change between 3rd and 4th gear. You may notice once the TC has locked in 3rd gear the engine RPM decreases and its at this point if you need to accelerate a little more the engine is now laggy and feels as if there is not enough power to get up and go, but there should be. You have your right foot planted and you are waiting a few seconds for the engine RPM to increase and build boost before the engine rpm reaches its peak torque band before it really gets moving. My observations is once the TC has locked in 3rd gear the TCM is very reluctant to unlock the TC whilst you are in that gear.
I also find in 3rd if you are off and on the throttle during slow speed driving, freeway traffic or whilst taking turns in motion or driving through a round about the acceleration tends to be a little jerky and hesitant and is due to the TC locking and unlocking 3rd gear and it’s mostly keeping the engine out of its torque band when you need it. This gear happens to be used a lot during low to moderate acceleration during the 20-50km speed range.
Trying to overcome and work though this inherent characteristic, I started off performing the throttle reset procedure, changed to the Cayenne transmission coding on VCDS, installed an EVC throttle controller and going through various settings to find one which wasn’t too sensitive but a setting which could decrease some of the throttle lag and then lastly a few months ago I had an engine remapped by Revo which I was hoping to correct some of the down low throttle performance and lag issues I’ve had with the car. None of the above has fully addressed the lag issue. They have all been small improvements with the engine remap adding a whole lot more of mid to upper range torque and power, I should mention that my engine is the 180TDi.
Not wanting to give up yet and what I feel is the only real short coming I had been searching for anyone that can tune and remap the TR80SD AL1000 TCM which I’ve found quickly that there’s very limited support and at this stage the only company I can find in Australia that can tune the AL1000 TCM with the map packs that are available can alter Torque curves, Torque clutch limit, Shift times, Shift tables and Shifting limits however the TC lock up logic is not one of them, at least for now and unsure if it will become available considering the Touaregs, Q7 and Cayenne are more of a niche market.
I decided to do some logs with VCDS to see what was happening with the TC lockup status and wanted to prove to myself that having the ability to change or delay the TC lockup would address the driveability issues I’ve found and more so with the throttle lag and performance down low.
So I had disconnected the N443 TC lockup solenoid wiring temporarily so the TC could no longer lock up, I can say since doing this and having the ability for the torque converter to stall during 3rd gear finally addressed the dreaded throttle lag as when needing to accelerate the torque converter can and will shoot to 2900-3000rpm (instead of being locked at the lower end of 2000rpm and below the peak torque window) this now has the rpm sitting within the engines peak torque curve window and the car actually accelerates and pulls effortlessly instead of the dreaded lag and lugging waiting for the rpm and boost to build which is a characteristic with a locked torque converter in 3rd gear.
I started searching for torque converter lock up controllers and interfaces to see what else is out there and came across a few company’s in Australia who create lock up controller kits but all of these company’s have there audience heavily targeted towards the Toyota 200 series Land cruisers, Prado, Hilux, Mitsubishi Pajero, Triton and Challengers and Patrols with nothing remotely close to supporting the Touareg, also the fact the Touareg is quite the opposite since the lockup occurs far earlier compared to the other cars which struggled to hold TC lock up, or don’t lock up till freeway speeds which needed a solution to lock the TC at an earlier speed to prevent excessive TC slip, heat, improve fuel consumption and engine braking whilst towing.
I was hoping for an easy solution such as a speed activated relay that would not allow the TC lockup signal to pass until a certain speed, but that has it’s short comings and I started to think if it were possible to delay the TC from locking up until a particular gear was selected such as 4th gear instead of 3rd. Now things start getting a bit more complex to control.
One of the vendors that makes TC lockup kits is MM4x4 vehicle electronics (MM4x4 | Torque Converter Lockup Kit | Adelaide | auto-mate|lockup-mate) he has some of the most advanced type of torque converter lock up controllers that reads data through the CANBUS and the controller is programmed specifically for that vehicle for when to apply and disengage the TC lock up. It uses a PWM signal to the TC solenoid the same as OEM’s do and allows the ramping of the TC solenoid for a smooth engagement as done originally. Having the ability to read info from the ECM / TCM though the canbus has a huge advantage as it brings the possibility of delaying the TC from locking up until a certain gear is selected. So I’ve reached out to Marshall from MM4x4 today and explained the situation here with the Touareg and if there is anything he can do in terms of making a controller that could delay and intercept the TC from locking up so early in 3rd gear and for example allow the factory TCM to pass its signal from 4th gear onwards only, and what other benefits it could potentially bring.
So here I am bringing this to your attention and to see if the current TC lock up logic bothers you at all, if you have noticed it would you like to address this if you could or is there anything else you would like to see? Ultimately if there is enough interest then it’s likely a project worth MM4x4 pursuing and in my opinion having the ability to delay the TC locking up so early and pushing that out to 4th gear improves the lag and acceleration immensely, too big to ignore.
The Touareg is no doubt a great all rounder as a family car, perfect for the holidays, towing, and the long distant drives are comfortable but what I’ve found during city driving (which in my scenario is 90% of the time) the TC lockup logic really ruins the driving experience. Some other members have noticed this characteristic and have questioned it but for those that haven’t please let me know if this applies to you and if you would like to change something about it, understanding most have probably learnt to live with it or isn’t enough of an issue to bother them or just have not felt what the car could drive like if there was a change to the TC lock up logic.
Most should be familiar that once the transmission shifts into 3rd gear, almost immediately the TC lockup solenoid modulates and lock up occurs very early at approximately 30-32kms. It almost feels as if there was another gear change between 3rd and 4th gear. You may notice once the TC has locked in 3rd gear the engine RPM decreases and its at this point if you need to accelerate a little more the engine is now laggy and feels as if there is not enough power to get up and go, but there should be. You have your right foot planted and you are waiting a few seconds for the engine RPM to increase and build boost before the engine rpm reaches its peak torque band before it really gets moving. My observations is once the TC has locked in 3rd gear the TCM is very reluctant to unlock the TC whilst you are in that gear.
I also find in 3rd if you are off and on the throttle during slow speed driving, freeway traffic or whilst taking turns in motion or driving through a round about the acceleration tends to be a little jerky and hesitant and is due to the TC locking and unlocking 3rd gear and it’s mostly keeping the engine out of its torque band when you need it. This gear happens to be used a lot during low to moderate acceleration during the 20-50km speed range.
Trying to overcome and work though this inherent characteristic, I started off performing the throttle reset procedure, changed to the Cayenne transmission coding on VCDS, installed an EVC throttle controller and going through various settings to find one which wasn’t too sensitive but a setting which could decrease some of the throttle lag and then lastly a few months ago I had an engine remapped by Revo which I was hoping to correct some of the down low throttle performance and lag issues I’ve had with the car. None of the above has fully addressed the lag issue. They have all been small improvements with the engine remap adding a whole lot more of mid to upper range torque and power, I should mention that my engine is the 180TDi.
Not wanting to give up yet and what I feel is the only real short coming I had been searching for anyone that can tune and remap the TR80SD AL1000 TCM which I’ve found quickly that there’s very limited support and at this stage the only company I can find in Australia that can tune the AL1000 TCM with the map packs that are available can alter Torque curves, Torque clutch limit, Shift times, Shift tables and Shifting limits however the TC lock up logic is not one of them, at least for now and unsure if it will become available considering the Touaregs, Q7 and Cayenne are more of a niche market.
I decided to do some logs with VCDS to see what was happening with the TC lockup status and wanted to prove to myself that having the ability to change or delay the TC lockup would address the driveability issues I’ve found and more so with the throttle lag and performance down low.
So I had disconnected the N443 TC lockup solenoid wiring temporarily so the TC could no longer lock up, I can say since doing this and having the ability for the torque converter to stall during 3rd gear finally addressed the dreaded throttle lag as when needing to accelerate the torque converter can and will shoot to 2900-3000rpm (instead of being locked at the lower end of 2000rpm and below the peak torque window) this now has the rpm sitting within the engines peak torque curve window and the car actually accelerates and pulls effortlessly instead of the dreaded lag and lugging waiting for the rpm and boost to build which is a characteristic with a locked torque converter in 3rd gear.
I started searching for torque converter lock up controllers and interfaces to see what else is out there and came across a few company’s in Australia who create lock up controller kits but all of these company’s have there audience heavily targeted towards the Toyota 200 series Land cruisers, Prado, Hilux, Mitsubishi Pajero, Triton and Challengers and Patrols with nothing remotely close to supporting the Touareg, also the fact the Touareg is quite the opposite since the lockup occurs far earlier compared to the other cars which struggled to hold TC lock up, or don’t lock up till freeway speeds which needed a solution to lock the TC at an earlier speed to prevent excessive TC slip, heat, improve fuel consumption and engine braking whilst towing.
I was hoping for an easy solution such as a speed activated relay that would not allow the TC lockup signal to pass until a certain speed, but that has it’s short comings and I started to think if it were possible to delay the TC from locking up until a particular gear was selected such as 4th gear instead of 3rd. Now things start getting a bit more complex to control.
One of the vendors that makes TC lockup kits is MM4x4 vehicle electronics (MM4x4 | Torque Converter Lockup Kit | Adelaide | auto-mate|lockup-mate) he has some of the most advanced type of torque converter lock up controllers that reads data through the CANBUS and the controller is programmed specifically for that vehicle for when to apply and disengage the TC lock up. It uses a PWM signal to the TC solenoid the same as OEM’s do and allows the ramping of the TC solenoid for a smooth engagement as done originally. Having the ability to read info from the ECM / TCM though the canbus has a huge advantage as it brings the possibility of delaying the TC from locking up until a certain gear is selected. So I’ve reached out to Marshall from MM4x4 today and explained the situation here with the Touareg and if there is anything he can do in terms of making a controller that could delay and intercept the TC from locking up so early in 3rd gear and for example allow the factory TCM to pass its signal from 4th gear onwards only, and what other benefits it could potentially bring.
So here I am bringing this to your attention and to see if the current TC lock up logic bothers you at all, if you have noticed it would you like to address this if you could or is there anything else you would like to see? Ultimately if there is enough interest then it’s likely a project worth MM4x4 pursuing and in my opinion having the ability to delay the TC locking up so early and pushing that out to 4th gear improves the lag and acceleration immensely, too big to ignore.
