[JamesHW]

Greetings. We’ve been experiencing thieves entering our 2017 Touareg and rifling the contents of the consol & glove box. The first time we thought we had forgotten to lock it, but last night we were sure it was locked, yet our security cam caught the perp opening the car, despite it being locked (cam caught wife checking it earlier in late afternoon). I’ve read up on spoofing keyless entries, but unable to find VW specific info.

Wondering if anyone else has experienced this and any suggestions. We had thought the distance from the car would prevent any retransmission of the signal, but are ordering RFID sleeves for our fobs regardless. Our camera images are not good enough to ID the thief, so we are adding a small camera in the vehicle as an extra precaution.

So far our loss is a change purse and a pair of prescription sunglasses, but are determined to catch the A-hole if we can. Has anyone else experienced security issues and any suggestions.

Thnx

 

[Ragman]

maybe an IED disguised as a roll of notes?

 

[JamesHW]

maybe an IED disguised as a roll of notes?

Might damage the consol, so no go...

 

[JamesHW]

Was thinking a blinding strobe light and screeching alarm activated when the glove box or consol is opened

 

[RobL]

Not with my Touareg, however for several nights my wife's GLC would randomly unlock itself, and we have similar trouble with petty thieves enough that I also installed a security cam. I would catch the car unlocking on the camera at random times for several nights. One day I was loading something onto the back seat and noticed part of a shirt or something was laying a bit in the door jam. The door didn't appear ajar when it was closed but it turned out to be just enough to make the car think a door had been opened and unlocked. I guess check and make sure you don't have anything that may be keeping a door or hatch slightly ajar and causing this as a first step.

 

[Solandri]

The way this was being done a couple years ago was by using a signal repeater. When you attempt to open the car door with a keyfob in your pocket, the car emits a coded RF signal. The keyfob recognizes it and in turn emits a reply RF signal (based on the original emitted code, so you can't just record the keyfob's reply and use that to open the door). It uses a rolling code, like garage door openers, so the emitted signal and proper reply is different each time.

Unfortunately a lot of manufacturers went cheap on security and just relied on the keyfob having a weak antenna and transmitter to limit the range at which this worked. If you're too far from the car, the signal the car emits isn't strong enough to activate the keyfob. Thieves got around this by using an amplified repeater. It would record the RF signal the car emitted and repeat it at much higher signal strength over an antenna. Your keyfob inside the house could detect this stronger signal, and would reply. The repeater would then record the keyfob's reply and play it back loud enough for the car to unlock the door.

The word of mouth fix was to put the keyfob in the freezer when you're at home. The metal walls of the freezer act as a faraday cage, and block RF signals from getting through. You don't need to use the freezer though. Any metal container will do. You can even make a pouch out of aluminum foil and put the keyfob in it when you're at home. There are also keyfob pouches being sold which look nicer than scrunched up aluminum foil. It's still an inconvenience compared to just carrying the key in your pocket though.

The proper way to fix this would be for the car to time how long it takes the keyfob to respond. Because the speed of light is finite, the delay between the car emitting the signal and the keyfob replying will tell you how far the keyfob is from the car. If a thief tried to use a repeater, there would be a longer delay until the car got the keyfob's reply because of the time it takes to repeat the signals, and the longer distance it needs to travel. But this would entail putting a very accurate clock in the car's computer, and manufacturers seem resistant to going to that expense.

 

[Eric1285]

There's an inherent flaw in most VAG cars. I think it there was a long expose on it in Wired, but I may be remembering it incorrectly. I think the exploit required you to actually use the fob buttons though, so I make it a point to only lock / unlock using the keyless entry.

Edit: Go figure, typed "wired volkswagen" into my address bar and the article was still in my browser history and popped right up:

https://www.wired.com/2016/08/oh-good-new-hack-can-unlock-100-million-volkswagens/

 

[Built4Sin]

You could get a metal box of some sort and put your keys in that. If they are powering it up from the outside, that'll Faraday your keys from being exploited.

I've seen a few videos of this recently, where a city was having high end cars stolen with no visible trace left... Someone a few weeks ago caught the guys doing what you're talking about. 2 guys jump out, one with a handheld electronic box walks up to the front door, seconds later the other guy at the car unlocks, starts it and they both drive away. Had the homeowner not had outside cameras, they would have had no idea what happened.

 

[Built4Sin]

 

[JimJ]

So this would only work with a keyless system?
With a Treg with key, I assume that a physical key has to be inserted to unlock the steering?

 

[Philth]

So this would only work with a keyless system?
With a Treg with key, I assume that a physical key has to be inserted to unlock the steering?

I imagine if you still have a remote that they could unlock it. Not sure though.

 

[Toiler]

So this would only work with a keyless system?
. ..

Yes. Not just VW at risk.

 

[nickyt]

Fundamental flaw in the system. Just use a analog booster to up the signal range. Since the system depends on the low power key remote not working from any distance - you trick the system into thinking the key is right beside the door. It effects almost every car maker.

 

[JimJ]

I can understand how you could unlock the vehcle. But to start the car that does not have keyless system you also need the transponder in the key.

When the key is inserted a signal is sent from the ICM that energizes the transponder.
The electronic transponder in the key replies with a signal

Once the induction coil of the anti-theft immobilizer in the cylinder receives the signal it is then sent to the ICM. This only recognizes the key as coded for the vehicle

As soon as the ICM recognizes the key it sends a random number to both the key and ECM

They both perform a calculation on the this number and send the result back to the ICM

If the number the ICM had equals the one that both the key and ECM return, the ICM sends a signal to start the engine.

Also the physical key has to be inserted to unlock the steering.

So how do they get around all of this?

 

[Perry01]

Hence the title of the thread “keyless entry” vehicles also have “push button start/stop”. No key required to unlock or start vehicle.

 

[Treviso]

This is very worrisome! ^^^