[tdimark69]

Looking at having a custom 2 inch lift built for t3 steel sprung tregs...I want to go with strut style spacer because i want to retain ride quality of stock springs i like the stock ride.

I have a very good fabrication shop in mind and have been in talks, they are pretty busy right now so really just want to see how many t3 owners are looking for something similar....maybe i can show him it might be worth more then just one lift sale.

this should give us a nice air sprung look and more aggressive stance with bigger ats.

 

[ShadowImg]

I'm interested, but there's more to a lift than just the height. Would like to hear from the 'designer' about geometry changes/corrections and the like first.

 

[gazaflash]

tdimark69
Why would you ever want to increase the lift?
The Touareg is not some insensitive, archaic, pathetic excuse for a truck. If the tightening of the nuts on the front wheels have an effect on the vibration/no vibration issues, what do you think will happen when you increase the lift without dealing with other suspension mods and still want to keep the ride quality. The factory spends millions on design/engineering so we can have the right amount of ride quality/performance/cost/serviceability, etc, etc...
increasing ride height WILL change ride quality, stress on CV joints, reducing articulation, polar inertia will change, anti dive/anti squat attitudes will change, not to mention possible bump steer issues. If all these items and more, is taken into account then you could have a properly set up Touareg. These Touaregs are fully independent, multilink suspension setup, not some solid axle where the body is lifted and the central diff is in the exact same height!!! Smart??!! I think not. If you looking for increased ground clearance because the body is grounding out on rocks, mud, etc... then increase the sidewall ratio on tyres. add skid plates if required

ShadowImg,
You are correct in having a bit of reluctance in adjusting suspension, ride height, etc...!

 

[ShadowImg]

Remember though that for the most part we aren't capable of going for bigger sidewall tires with the suspension as it sits. Though I'm not sure 2" vertical will help much, because I think we're restricted by the F/R wheel arch clearance.

It's a shame we can't get 16" wheels over the front brakes, cause I think that would probably help more than most other things.

That all said, the air suspension models do go up higher than the steel suspension, so there should be some level of lift allowed there in the natural setup. I'm guessing it's closer to 1" though. Would be interesting to measure (and look at other geometry differences in the air susp setup)

 

[philthyphil]

The models that have air suspension have a max clearance of around 11" at extra offroad level and I think closer to 10" at normal offroad level. Provided that the axles are the same then it should be able to handle a 1.5 to 2" lift. I just wonder how quickly the CV joints will wear out if the axles are constantly extended to that height.

I think it would be cool for someone to offer a couple options like 1", 1.5" and 2". I feel like there would be less demand for the 2" version but a lot of interest at the 1 or 1.5" height.

 

[iSagen]

Stock steel and air ride height is not equal. I can't find the numbers now, but I just had them for wheel alignment. The expedition steel version had a substantial higher ground clearance. Maybe you can OEM a higher ride?

There's also references to a "heavy duty suspension" in ETKA.

Found the measurements:
513 +/- 10 mm - 1BA Steel
488 +/- 10 mm - 1BE Steel
538 +20 / -15 mm - Expedition Steel
497 +/- 3 mm - 1BK Air
477+/ 10 mm - 2MA Air

This is not ground clearance, but another way of measuring. Maybe tire size affects this as well?

 

[tdimark69]

gaza what i do with my touareg is my business, you dont want a lift thats fine i dont need a lecture....

Im pretty sure all touaregs have the same cvs and arms ect as it just makes economical sense...the air can lift more then 2 inches i believe it...put the t3 on a hoist and just watch how much suspension drops before its lifted.

thanks isagen do you happen to have part numbers for the bigger shocks? that would be a better way to go...but may be problematic getting them on this side of the pond

 

[ShadowImg]

Stock steel and air ride height is not equal. I can't find the numbers now, but I just had them for wheel alignment. The expedition steel version had a substantial higher ground clearance. Maybe you can OEM a higher ride?

There's also references to a "heavy duty suspension" in ETKA.

Found the measurements:
513 +/- 10 mm - 1BA Steel
488 +/- 10 mm - 1BE Steel
538 +20 / -15 mm - Expedition Steel
497 +/- 3 mm - 1BK Air
477+/ 10 mm - 2MA Air

This is not ground clearance, but another way of measuring. Maybe tire size affects this as well?

A common measure is from wheel center line to bottom of wheel arch, though I'm not sure if that's being used here.

 

[tdimark69]

fyi for haters...there are already is a few t2s steel sprung tregs riding 2 inch spring spacer lifts

 

[seafarer28]

For those who have not seen it, these are my experiences with lifts on my steel sprung T2........

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f66/suspension-upgrade-steel-t2-tdi-166345.html

FWIW, I have done 60,000 in 18 months with a lift fitted in one shape or form with no suspension related mechanical issues, I have read somewhere that if the lift is kept to no more than 2" you will not be compromising the design tolerances of the suspension and drive gear.

Not much is ever said on this but I believe with air suspension in the off-road setting the extra height is achieved by reduced suspension travel which translates in a much bumpier ride.

BTW, I much prefer obtaining a lift by other means than the fitting of spring spacers, rears work out OK as the spacer is mounted above the spring mount but as the fronts are mounted under the spring so compromises some of the spring travel resulting in some loss of that initial variable spring compression which takes some of the bump harshness out of the suspension.

tonyB

 

[FSJ Guy]

Not really wanted an internet argument, but "lifting" an independent suspension vehicle will NOT cause bump steer. That is usually a result of a solid axle vehicle and has to do with the track bar (aka pan hard rod) not being parallel to the steering rod.

As for CV joints, bushing wear and the other worries.... Well, you might be right. But it might also take 500,000 miles to find out. :- /

I don't know how similar the T2s are underneath, but I always thought if you could drop (or lift, depending on your point of view) the suspension subframes, you would have an easier time. The shock mounts that attach to the body would have to have spacers, too. And you'd have to extend brake lines, wiring, steering hoses/steering wheel. But you would retain the factory geometry as far as "normal" range of travel.

Unfortunately, most people who own these beasts do not off-road with them like those who own Toyotas or Jeeps, so there will never be robust aftermarket support. A shame, really.

 

[ShadowImg]

You definitely get bump steer in independent suspensions. Any time the control arm arc does not match the tie rod arc, you will have bump steer issues. Changing mounting points of any components will definitely alter those arcs. It's common to use a modified tie rod end to compensate for the arc mismatch to solve it.

 

[philthyphil]

thanks isagen do you happen to have part numbers for the bigger shocks? that would be a better way to go...but may be problematic getting them on this side of the pond

Here is a LINK to the page that shows the part numbers for the different suspension options. The one you would want for the shocks is 0YB (Tdi Engine) and -1BB (Rough Road Suspension).

I googled a few of the part numbers and they appear to be orderable here in the US.

I did some googling and found out the normal suspension has 214mm of ground clearance and the Expedition model with the steel suspension has 224mm. So fitting those springs may not be that beneficial but I would think the rough road shocks would be helpful.

 

[FSJ Guy]

You definitely get bump steer in independent suspensions. Any time the control arm arc does not match the tie rod arc, you will have bump steer issues. Changing mounting points of any components will definitely alter those arcs. It's common to use a modified tie rod end to compensate for the arc mismatch to solve it.

Got it. But if one just installs "spacers" in the shocks, that wouldn't mess with the geometry, right? Only installing new control arms would ruin the factory geometry, not just moving them "down".

If one was to space the subframe, hopefully the steering rack would "come along for the ride", too.

 

[ShadowImg]

Got it. But if one just installs "spacers" in the shocks, that wouldn't mess with the geometry, right? Only installing new control arms would ruin the factory geometry, not just moving them "down".

If one was to space the subframe, hopefully the steering rack would "come along for the ride", too.

It could - it depends a lot on the setup. If you consider a basic A arm, strut + spring to the outside, then you add a 2" block to the top of the strut mount and lower the entire assembly, you move the entire arc travel down 2" from center. Due to other geometry points though, you probably also turn it in a positive camber fashion a bit. Both of those will make it so the tie rod (and axle) at suspension rest is at a different angle, but also so that travel in both directions is a somewhat different position.

You are right if you can space the subframe and steering rack the same that it would resolve it, but it's very unusual to have a method to do that.

That said, shouldn't be a big deal in this case, given that there is some level of design to allow for higher operation at some speeds.

 

[FSJ Guy]

"One of these days", I'd like to investigate dropping the front and rear subframes for some additional list on my T2. But I think that would involve some complicated fabrication work for spacers for the top shock mounts which I think are bolted to the unibody framework.

Probably, for all that hassle, I should just get a Rubicon Hard Rock edition. But it's just not as nice as the inside of the Touareg. LOL!!

 

[tdimark69]

well i may have found what i want....now to bring myself to spend the coin

Lift kit Touareg - Seikel

 

[17Wolfsburg]

Just bought a 17' Wolfsburg Edition Touareg. Anyone know about those spacer kits? Reliability? Quality? There is a company I found out of Germany called SPACCER, gain about 2" with them. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[seafarer28]

well i may have found what i want....now to bring myself to spend the coin

Lift kit Touareg - Seikel

AFAIK, the Seikel is the only off the shelf, offroad/lift kit available for the Touareg.

After many trials and tribulations with mods to my steel suspension which can be read here, http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f66/suspension-upgrade-steel-t2-tdi-166345.html last year I sourced a Seikel kit which has seen some 40K+ kms of various driving conditions from towing a full size van to off road to high speed freeway to mundane day to day driving and I am happy to say that the Seikel suspension has met my expectations, resulting in a modest lift (30-35mm) and a little firmer ride which displays little body roll and entices spirited driving.
If you can overlook the high cost of the kit ($A4.5k+fitting), it is a vast improvement to the OEM suspension especially if you tow or venture off road occasionally, can recommend!

TonyB

 

[DoctorTouareg]

I would be interested in a T3 system as well