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Discussion Starter #1
I found vcds naming a bit confusing so I looket it up in elsawin.
the VR6 has two banks and everybody know that :) So what about this sort of info in vcds:
Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1 => that's bank1 sensor 1. This is supposed to be the upstream sensor on bank one catalytic converter !
So bank 1 is the bank with cylinder number 1 and that's the bank on the left side when standing in front of the Treg.
The problem is the VR6 in the treg (and probably other cars) has both exhaust manifolds on the left sides which makes it difficult to find out which exhaust is connected to which bank. Elsa to the rescue:
Catalytic converter, let's call it front, the one nearest to the front of the car is then called:
Starter catalytic converter => Installed in exhaust gas stream of cylinders 1, 2 and 3 which is not really bank 1 since bank 1 has cylinders 1-3-5
And the second catalytic converter, let's call it rear, is called:
Starter catalytic converter => Installed in exhaust gas stream of cylinders 4, 5 and 6 which is also not bank 2 since bank 2 has cylinder 2-4-6.
Front and Rear catalytic naming sounds much more accurate expecially in the case of the Treg as the engine is mounted longitudinally. So here is an accurate pic with info and the sensor naming Gxx which I also find more accurate. I'll add the part numbers later.
I know someone posted a pic of the 3.6 oxygen sensor lacations but I wanted to have a 3.2 info here.
So Bank 1 sensor 1 is number 8 => G39
So Bank 1 sensor 2 is number 12 => G130
So Bank 2 sensor 1 is number 9 => G108
So Bank 2 sensor 2 is number 13 => G131

Sensors 1 are upstream (before cat)
Sensors 2 are upstream (after cat)

In ETKA it's a diffrent story:

If you look at the elsawin pic you will see it is like you're standing on the passenger side of the car (Driver side for RHD), let's say you're standing on the right front wheel and looking at the engine. There you can see that you have two cats, one right, on your right hand and one left, on your left hand, so far so good. So if you want to order online and you have only Bank 1/2 Sensor 1/2 from vcds as a reference here is how to find out which one:

bank 1 Sensor 1 => upstream right
bank 1 Sensor 2 => downstream right
bank 2 Sensor 1 => upstream left
bank 2 Sensor 2 => downstream left

Take a look at the ETKA picture and picture it like you're standing on the right side of the car facing the exhaust manifold.

Corrections or additions are welcome :)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Etka Pic:

bank 1 Sensor 1 => upstream right => 11
bank 1 Sensor 2 => downstream right => 12
bank 2 Sensor 1 => upstream left => 9
bank 2 Sensor 2 => downstream left => 10

Parts numbers are different according to engine model.
I'm putting mine here. AZZ engine. Parts have been upgraded since so if you order from vw you'll get the latest upgraded version. This is only for informational purpose.

11 => 022906262BE
12 => 022906262BG
9 => 022906262BF
10 => 022906262BH
 

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Etka Pic:

bank 1 Sensor 1 => upstream right => 11
bank 1 Sensor 2 => downstream right => 12
bank 2 Sensor 1 => upstream left => 9
bank 2 Sensor 2 => downstream left => 10
Same parts for mine :grin2:
But still i find the Etka pic confusing since the arrangement of the cilinders seems off: when you stand at the right side of the Treg, facing the exhaust manifolds, cylinder 1 should be the closest to the front of the car ...
This pic looks like looking at the engine from under the car, head under first.


When you turn the pic over, right becomes left and vv ...
 

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Talking about O2 sensors: in my LPG soft i need to choose the sensor type and i don't know which to choose: any suggestions?
Possibilities are:
Voltage (0V means lean)
Voltage inverted (0V means rich)
Uego -> voltage
Uego -> full range
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Same parts for mine :grin2:
But still i find the Etka pic confusing since the arrangement of the cilinders seems off: when you stand at the right side of the Treg, facing the exhaust manifolds, cylinder 1 should be the closest to the front of the car ...
This pic looks like looking at the engine from under the car, head under first.


When you turn the pic over, right becomes left and vv ...


Good point. I'll have to do some more web crawling to make sure.



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Discussion Starter #11
Talking about O2 sensors: in my LPG soft i need to choose the sensor type and i don't know which to choose: any suggestions?
Possibilities are:
Voltage (0V means lean)
Voltage inverted (0V means rich)
Uego -> voltage
Uego -> full range


No idea my friend. Mine runs on fuel only.


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No idea my friend. Mine runs on fuel only.
I like to make it a little more complicated LOL: after replacing both complete petrol sender units incl. both flanges the car now starts en runs like a charm and without DTC's
... on petrol
On LPG i am getting misfires, so exhaust control system is not happy.

No, but even so we should be able to determine what type of O2 sensor is in the car since, indeed, there are different types ...

Correction about the Etka pic: it doesn't look like looking at the engine from below, it looks like the engine is upside down
In a Treg with a VR6 engine, when standing in front of the car and looking at the engine, exhaust is at your left side and cylinder 1 is the one most in front, this is on your left side looking at it like this or your right side (passenger side in a LHD) sitting in the drivers seat, making cylinders 1, 3 & 5 engine bank 1
Etka pic says otherwise ...
As far as exhaust goes, it appears they call collector most in front of car bank n° 1, the rear one bank n° 2
N° 1 serves cylinders 1, 2 & 3
N° 2 serves cylinders 4, 5, & 6
So banks allways seem te bo numbered starting at the front of the car
Problem is that there are different types of banks

AND Etka pic. makes it extra difficult since egine layout doesn't seem right
When you flip over the pic, keeping exhaust on the correct side, Lambda 9 becomes 11 and vv and 10 becomes 12 and vv, so bank nrs switch ... :crying:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I suspect the 4 sensors are interchangeable if you buy the bosch smart link ones, meaning the ones you have to prepare yourself before installing, meaning you have to cut the right wiring length.
The VW upstream sensors have the same price: 285€ and the downstream ones are 216€ (Prices may vary based on location I guess). So the only reason you need to know which is left or right, up or down is the wire length. In doubt just buy bank 2 sensor 2 so you have the longest wires and call it a day :) But I think there are might be differences between upstream an downstream.

Bosch sensors page (enter you vehicle id):
https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/auto/oxygen-sensors

Bosch OE Smart Link Sensors guide:

https://www.boschautoparts.com/documents/101512/0/0/d13b7eae-8b50-44e2-9760-097c038d335a
 

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I suspect the 4 sensors are interchangeable if you buy the bosch smart link ones, meaning the ones you have to prepare yourself before installing, meaning you have to cut the right wiring length.
In my car upstream is 6-wire, downstream 4-wire
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Then let's say the upstream sensors are interchangeable and the downstream onee are also interchangeable. So the trick is if you have a doubt just buy the upstream with the longer cable for any error saying bank 1/2 sensor 1 and downstream with the longer cable bank 1/2 sensor 2.
Now let's find the right part number :)
Or just buy the universal Bosch if applicable and cut it to the right length.
The search goes on...
We need to demystify this thing once and for all.
I'm visiting my Audi dealer this week and will try to get some more info from the techs.
 

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Then let's say the upstream sensors are interchangeable and the downstream onee are also interchangeable. So the trick is if you have a doubt just buy the upstream with the longer cable for any error saying bank 1/2 sensor 1 and downstream with the longer cable bank 1/2 sensor 2.
Now let's find the right part number :)
Or just buy the universal Bosch if applicable and cut it to the right length.
The search goes on...
We need to demystify this thing once and for all.
I'm visiting my Audi dealer this week and will try to get some more info from the techs.
Upstream sensors are heated, downstream sensors are not :)
Upstream is left / right interchangeable
Downstream is also left / right interchangeable
So it is just a question of cable length idd.

About VW part nrs.: i'm guessing that this is correct (and that the Etka drawing is vague), but i'm not shure ...
11 => 022906262BE (upstream right)
12 => 022906262BG (downstream right)
9 => 022906262BF (upstream left)
10 => 022906262BH (downstream left)

Let me know what the techs say :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17

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Discussion Starter #18
Back on track with this one:
The devil is in the details: (from bosch parts page Vehicle Part Finder | Bosch Auto Parts)
Downstream are Oxygen sensors only:
Bosch invented the automotive oxygen sensor, which is also referred to as an O2 sensor or lambda sensor. Our Premium Oxygen Sensors are thimble and planar switching sensors that are designed to meet or exceed OE specifications.

Upstream are Wideband Air/Fuel sensors: (the ones which report on fuel trim)
Wideband/Air-Fuel sensors perform the same function as a regular O2 sensor, but they precisely measure the amount oxygen in the exhaust rather than just switching between rich (too much fuel, not enough oxygen) and lean (too much oxygen, not enough fuel). Our Wideband sensors use a more sophisticated sensing element that provides a signal to the vehicle’s ECU that is proportional to the amount of oxygen in the exhaust.

This should be taken into account when ordering these parts. I'm not yet sure about the downstream but Bosch lists only one part number for the Upstream Wide Band Air/Fuel sensors. So you buy one for both banks. For downstream Bosch lists two part numbers. Maybe they are interchangeable but why get into the trouble since you can just order the right one. I think price is the same.

Bosch part numbers
Downstream left = 16982
Downstream right = 16034

Upstream left/right: 17357

As for the universal one (15733) it is only an oxygen sensor and is can be used only as a replacement for the downstream sensors.

Taken from Ross-tech site

So, now that we know that the ECU wants to be able to control the A/F ratio. It has a prescribed set of values (maps) for a given RPM, Load, etc. So, the ECU tells the injectors to pulse for exactly XX.X milliseconds and that SHOULD get us the proper A/F ratio that we want. Well, if you tell an employee to go do something, you want to make sure they actually did it, right? The ECU has some snitches (the front O2 sensor and the MAF, for the most part) that will report back whether or not the desired mixture has been attained. The rear O2 sensor is used mostly to monitor the condition of the catalytic convertor, although in some applications it also contributes to trim information.
236155
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yes. You can swap sensors to test. They are interchangeable if the wire length allows it.. Bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 2 sensor 1 I mean.
And be careful when buying.. B1 s1 and b1 s2 are different types of sensors.

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