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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I had a problem with my 2005 R5 today. The front subrame bushings apparently got torn apart resulting in the subframe hanging Down in front. It happend during normal road driving in a turn. Has anybody experienced this before? By looking at the design it seems a bit fragile and also a bit strange that nothing keeps the subframe from hanging like this.
 

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I imagine the sub frames on the R5 and the V10 are similiar so maybe the comparison with my experience is relevant.

The dealer had to drop the engine on mine do do some work. When they put it back together they improperly torqued (read forgot to tighten) the subframe bolts. One day during a turn the car made a funny noise and the steering got all 'squishy'. When an independent shop looked at it, one bolt was completely gone and the threads in the body were stripped, two were loose and ready to fall out. The alignment was so far out the front tires were shot in 5 miles. Flat bedded it back to the dealer to fix! They did - had to do some fancy thread repair on the body. Took them months.
Has your engine ever been removed or any of the subframe bolts taken out and put back?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I dont think the engine have been out or the bolts for the bushings have been removed. In my case all the bolts are fully in place, but the rubber on the front bushings have been completely teared of.
 

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I can't really tell much from your pic, and I barely know what I'm even looking at.
So are you saying that out of 4 subframe mounts, the "front" two are completely broken and your carrier is just dangling around?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I see that I should have sketched around the bushing to make it a bit better to know what it is. The problem is that the two front bushings on the subframe are broken in the rubber part, resulting in that the subframe hangs down in front. Attached are a picture which gives a better view.
 

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You can change the bushes.

Remember that in normal use, for the subframe to move, all 4 bushes must deform.

Somebody messed up with the subframe in the past. They are very bulky items or some solvent or fuel deteriorated the bushings badly.
 

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Agreed on the decomposition of the bushes - I think something must have got at them for a failure like that to occur which is pretty damned serious.

I don't recall seeing or reading of anything like it over the past 10 years or so.

As above, replace all four bushes and, from memory, I think they may be handed for each corner to check your parts needs carefully.

Here's a - hopefully - useful thread I started on this subject over 5 years ago.


You'll need a full 4 wheel laser alignment afterwards as well.

You'll need to join mytreg to read all the stuff in it.

https://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/27946-front-sub-frame-bonded-rubber-mountings-replacement/
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes this was kind of shocking when I saw it after it happend. I imagine it could very bad if I had to brake hard. Yes I will replace all four bushings and also the rear control arm bushings. I cant see any traces of solvent or other chemicals, neither any mechanical damage underneath, aside from some scratches on the subframe. But I have not studied the bushings very carefully. I see that the rear subframe bushings has developed some small cracks in the rubber. I will look into the topic at mytreg and I have already joined there. Thank you so far with the inputs to my problem! I have also another problem with a P0304 misfire at idle but that I will maybe make another topic on. I recently bought this car so I guess I have had a bad start with my Touareg. My biggest concern with the misfire is if it can be the plasma coating peeling off, but I have done some relative compression tests which seems to look fine so I am crossing my fingers for something less expensive. Even though I am not 100% sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have now replaced the bushes. It was a bit difficult and quite much work, but very satisfying with having my Treg back on the road again :) Now the next thing will be replacing the rear bushings on the front control arms. I think this definitely will be a lot easier than the subframe bushings.
 

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Congrats.
As for the lower arms just get the full arms. easier and cheaper if you think about it. Get some TRW arms. 120€ each. And do get all the screws and nuts. If you want a list I can put it here.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks. I have already bought the bushings and my plan was to only replace these bushings on the lower control arms, since I did not know that the complete arm had to be taken off. I can get TRW or Lemförder arms for approx. 200€ each so by only replacing the bushings I will save some money. On the other hand the arms will sooner or later have to be replaced. My Treg has now 196000 km probably with the original arms, so maybe in the "near" future. I also see in the workshop manual that some of the bolts and nuts are to be replaced, which further gives a reason for replacing the complete arm. After a bit of thinking I will probably deliver back my bushings and buy a complete arm instead. I will find out regarding the nuts and bolts so you dont need to put a list. Thank you for your inputs.
 

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You're welcome. I was in the same boat a few months ago, doing the bushings or the whole arms. I chose to
replaced both arms and bolts. Treg was having a hard time braking and was all clunking on every bump.
I was doing the same thing today with a friend. Replacing both arms and swaybar bushings. VW told him they don't replace bolts and nuts when he went to buy them. He started tearing the arms and found out the screws are all rusted and he had to use his blowtorch to get one screw out. We ended up stopping the operation till he gets all the stuff needed.
One of the ball joints on one arm was shot so getting the whole arms was a good move. You can not replace the ball joint alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Normally I have not replaced nuts and bolts on similar types of jobs. I replaced them on the subframe bushes since they are torqued to 120 Nm + 180°.
 

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And don't forget another very important note:
from ElsaWin:

Threaded connection between suspension strut and lower suspension link must be tightened in unladen position

 

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Discussion Starter #19
I lowered the subframe enough to get the needed clearance which is only a few centimetres. I supported the engine with a jack and a wood block against the engine cradle, but I did not support it during the whole job.
 
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