[foxhound720]

OK now that the snow season is coming up quick in the Northeast I started to reminisce about my touareg vs wrx (92x) in the snow.

Quick story. I always heard that the touareg is so good off-road.... I took it in heavy snow last year to aa short hill my friends and mess with on snowmobiles and trucks. Started at base of hill and didn't get far. Backed up and tried different settings on the differential knob. Still didn't get far. Grass hill with 3-4" of snow. 70-60% tread life on bridgestone dueller alenza tires. Went home and grabbed my 07 Subaru turbo, put it in D and climbed without an issue. Fairly good tread life on all season tires.

Another time in Vermont skiing it snowed overnight and it was 6" or more in the driveway. Couldn't even move and those all season tires were 3 months old ! My friend had to pull me out with his 2013 jeep. Before I sold the Subaru I would take that in mud, heavy snow and feel 100% more comfortable driving and leave the touareg at home. Whats going on ? 2006 3.2 with 65k.

 

[Yeti]

Get better tires! I just did a search on the tires you have on there and I can see why you got stuck. Tires make all the difference in the world.

 

[dragline1570]

I assume traction control is off?

Regards
Drag

 

[Built4Sin]

Yeah my bet is you didn't turn the traction control off... You hold it down on the console until the MFD tells you its off. You'll know when its "on/engaged" since any tire spin cuts the engine throttle. When its "off/ disengaged" you can gun it and spin circles in the snow (be careful in icy conditions, it will save you).

Traction on - No snow circles
Traction off - Snow cirlces

 

[MtnPass]

Last winter we had a big winter storm. I drove a friends Subaru home with all season tires sliding all over place, horrible experience. Then drove the Touareg with snow tires home. No comparison in the all wheel drive systems.

 

[Spiegelglatt]

Like the others have said ESP must be off...you will not be able to utilize your "electronic differential locks"...so called...with ESP on. Get good tires that are up for the job. If you are going into something serious lock center differential (meaning you are then going to also be using low range on the Treg). If you get stuck shift to manual and use L1 and keep on the throttle...with ESP off the Treg uses the spinning wheels brakes to slow the free wheel and transfer power. However if ESP is on then if any wheel spins period...then throttle is cut out until you remove your foot from the accelerator pedal and replace it. I have climbed over a decent rock with only two wheels on the ground (physically touching from an angled climb approach). The front wheel was up fairly high and had no grip, only the left rear wheel had traction. The truck surged the brakes and you could feel the wheel get power and up and over I went...all using BF Goodrich All-Terrian KOs and NO REAR differential lock.

 

[rpjg]

ESP, OFF ROAD or both

So, for driving in snow ESP should be off.

Does the "Off Road" switch do the same thing ?

If so should you use one or the other ? or both ?

When clear and driving on an icy/ snowy highway should the ESP switched back on ? and off road off?

 

[nickm]

1. For deep snow ESP off. For driving down the highway in snowy conditions ESP on.
2. Don't screw around with the differential locks, in snow they will hurt you more than they will help you .
3. Buy good tires made for snow conditions (ie: blizzaks, hakkapellitas).

 

[noobytoogy]

I read conflicting views on the Alenza. It comes up as a summer tire but on a Bridgestone site, it talks about snow too! Very confusing.

But looking at the tread, it's not a tire I would expect to do well in snow. I would happily put my wife's little front wheel drive car on its proper winters up against a Touareg on those Alenzas in up to a foot of snow!

Many people with 4x4s assume their car will do the business regardless off road or in snow when it's actually the rubber footprint on the ground that has to do most of the work.

Grass is an especially difficult problem for 4x4s which is why you can see www clips of very expensive 4x4s on flat grass fields going nowhere with everyone laughing their socks off!

Once the blades of grass are damaged, the sap emerges and the co-efficient of friction between road biased rubber is then on a par with wet ice . . . !

I always enjoy this clip !

 

[Spiegelglatt]

1. For deep snow ESP off. For driving down the highway in snowy conditions ESP on.
2. Don't screw around with the differential locks, in snow they will hurt you more than they will help you .
3. Buy good tires made for snow conditions (ie: blizzaks, hakkapellitas).

I think this depends on the generation of Treg and the situation. In my example from above I tried and tried with just ESP off for a good 10 minutes. I could feel the center different automatically locking, but every time I took my foot out of it, it would unlock. This seemed to make 100% power transfer to one wheel impossible. I didn't want to change my approach and go "the easy way over" so I experimented. What I found was having the center locked took the 3/4 wheel turn (to auto lock) out of the picture so my momentum was not interrupted. Lastly, it seemed to kill ESP 100% I had to be in low range. My throttle was still being cut after a few seconds of spinning in high (although not instant). Low range L1 allowed me to keep my foot in it, and the EDL to work. High with auto differential and ESP off was incapable in my situation.
Given my Treg generation T1/2 it is my opinion that the EDL software is much more aggressive in LOW than High, and that the Center Differential must be engaged to disable the ESP 100%.
Later T3 Treg's are more aggressive with EDL it seems as they have high capabilities minus some of the hardware of the T1/T2.
Lastly, I would agree as a general rule just ESP off is the way to go. Tires make as much difference as four wheel drive...this seems overlooked by most folk. Spend the money and get good tires for the job. I live where it snows from time to time, I have never not made it the 20 miles across town to work...part of this is the Treg and a larger part is my Mastercraft Courser MSR studded snow tires I run in the winter.

 

[47Driver]

A wise man once told me, "Use the proper tool for the job." Where you live, you should own a set of winter tires. All season tires are a product of very clever marketing from the later 70, early 80's. They aren't really good at summer or winter...only marginally okay at both. I had a long conversation with a German tire engineer at Continental that marveled at how brilliant and stupid Americans can be. He then went on to explain the differences in rubber and design between summer and winter tires. I now have three sets of tires/rims stored in the garage.

 

[VWBobNY]

I live in Western NY and am an avid skier, end of story

 

[noobytoogy]

. I now have three sets of tires/rims stored in the garage.

Golly, THAT garage is TIDY!!

 

[nickyt]

I read conflicting views on the Alenza. It comes up as a summer tire but on a Bridgestone site, it talks about snow too! Very confusing.

But looking at the tread, it's not a tire I would expect to do well in snow. I would happily put my wife's little front wheel drive car on its proper winters up against a Touareg on those Alenzas in up to a foot of snow!

I have the Alenza. It does ok for the first two to three years or with >50% tread. Which ever one comes first. Not a super great winter tire, just a decent all season.

Once it gets old or the tread is over 50% gone, you have a crappy (for winter driving) all season. To be fair, I have never seen an all season tire that got decent winter traction after a few years. I guess that is why some of the European tires have indicators in the treads.


https://www.nokiantyres.com/innovation/innovations/driving-safety-indicator-dsi-wsi-hkpl-lt2/

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=163

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/index.jsp

 

[noobytoogy]

I wouldn't run any road car on any tire once 50% tread wear has been reached. The loss of performance under braking alone, let alone traction in rain, snow or mud depending upon the type of tyre, means tires should be consigned to the bin.

European tyre tread indicators are there to let people know when they are close to the legal minimum depth of a mere 1.6 mm which is downright dangerous in my book.

 

[nickyt]

To Nooby (joke)
Dem dare tires on myz truck arez all fine. Theyz getz replaced when I seez the Bubba indicators. Do you'se seez themz der Nooby? Thez is on the left, noz the other left. Yeah right dare. I callz themz the Bubba indicators.

:twisted:

 

[sydneytreg]

looks like a little under 50% tread left on dem badboys.

 

[noobytoogy]

Nothing wrong with half of that tire!

 

[nickyt]

looks like a little under 50% tread left on dem badboys.

lolz. Then by Nooby's logic, they have just hit the point that he would replace them at.

In all seriousness and to get back on topic, fresh new-ish tires is the secret to winter driving.

 

[nickm]

I think this depends on the generation of Treg and the situation. In my example from above I tried and tried with just ESP off for a good 10 minutes. I could feel the center different automatically locking, but every time I took my foot out of it, it would unlock. This seemed to make 100% power transfer to one wheel impossible. I didn't want to change my approach and go "the easy way over" so I experimented. What I found was having the center locked took the 3/4 wheel turn (to auto lock) out of the picture so my momentum was not interrupted. Lastly, it seemed to kill ESP 100% I had to be in low range. My throttle was still being cut after a few seconds of spinning in high (although not instant). Low range L1 allowed me to keep my foot in it, and the EDL to work. High with auto differential and ESP off was incapable in my situation.
Given my Treg generation T1/2 it is my opinion that the EDL software is much more aggressive in LOW than High, and that the Center Differential must be engaged to disable the ESP 100%.
Later T3 Treg's are more aggressive with EDL it seems as they have high capabilities minus some of the hardware of the T1/T2.
Lastly, I would agree as a general rule just ESP off is the way to go. Tires make as much difference as four wheel drive...this seems overlooked by most folk. Spend the money and get good tires for the job. I live where it snows from time to time, I have never not made it the 20 miles across town to work...part of this is the Treg and a larger part is my Mastercraft Courser MSR studded snow tires I run in the winter.

While I generally agree, if you aren't using snow tires and aren't aware of ESP function, then understanding the finer points of diff locks is like 4th year undergrad to an elemetary student.

Test that I use to show that diff locks aren't so useful in snow in a Touareg is passenger wheels on ice, drivers side wheels on pavement, start up from a dead stop. The 4x or 4 motion system both get you underway in a hurry, comparatively, in a typical open diff 4x4 setup you'd spin the tires on ice and not move at all - hence the need for diff locks on a rudimentary 4x4 setup.