Is it actually the same engine or were some changes made to it by VW after '06?

 

I don't know, hence my question.

 

This has been been discussed ad infinitum over the years.

VW 506.01 has a special additive, Zinc DialkylDithioPhophate (known as ZDDP), to prevent the premature wear of the camshafts whose lobe angles in the R5 and V10 are so acute the pressure splits oil molecules.

ZDDP is a sacrificial anti-wear agent.

VW 507.00 doesn't work with the big end bearing metals in pre-DPF R5 and V10s.

Read the thread below.

There are many other threads on mytreg, clubtouareg and elsewhere confirming that VW 507.00 is NOT a replacement for VW 506.01 for those cars where VW 506.01 was originally specified.

And there are lots of threads confirming that a great many VW dealers haven't got a clue, give the wrong advice and have been known to fill 506.01 engines with the wrong oil!

www.mytre.com/threads/506-01-vs-507-comparison.14034/

 

This has been been discussed ad infinitum over the years.

VW 506.01 has a special additive, Zinc DialkylDithioPhophate (known as ZDDP), to prevent the premature wear of the camshafts whose lobe angles in the R5 and V10 are so acute the pressure splits oil molecules.

ZDDP is a sacrificial anti-wear agent.

VW 507.00 doesn't work with the big end bearing metals in pre-DPF R5 and V10s.

Read the thread below.

There are many other threads on mytreg, clubtouareg and elsewhere confirming that VW 507.00 is NOT a replacement for VW 506.01 for those cars where VW 506.01 was originally specified.

And there are lots of threads confirming that a great many VW dealers haven't got a clue, give the wrong advice and have been known to fill 506.01 engines with the wrong oil!

www.mytre.com/threads/506-01-vs-507-comparison.14034/

Yes, I know all that. BTW, I've never been able to find out what's different about the bearing material. Everything I've read says steel back babbit bearing, same as has been used since the early 60s.

But that wasn't the question. The later 2.5, 2006 to 2009, specifies 507.
How is that different to the earlier 2.5 that specifies 505.01 or 506.01?

Both are R5 engines.

 

507 is for engines with DPFs, which the earlier R5 doesn't have.

All your questions can be answered here

 

507 is for engines with DPFs, which the earlier R5 doesn't have.

All your questions can be answered here

I can't access that site.

I know that 507 Is for engines with a DPF but do they have the same cam and bearing issues as the earlier engine?
If 507 is suitable for an R5 with a DPF then why isn't it suitable for an engine without it?

 

Thanks for that. Being of American origin there's no reference to the 2.5 engine but there is to the V10 which is mechanically similar.
It says not to use 507 in a V10 and because the have the same cam set up that would mean the advice is the same for the 2.5.

It still doesn't explain why 507 is recommended for the later 2.5 when it's strictly verboten for the early 2.5.
Yes, the later engine has a DPF but that has nothing to do with the cam or bearings.

 

Thanks for that. Being of American origin there's no reference to the 2.5 engine but there is to the V10 which is mechanically similar.
It says not to use 507 in a V10 and because the have the same cam set up that would mean the advice is the same for the 2.5.

It still doesn't explain why 507 is recommended for the later 2.5 when it's strictly verboten for the early 2.5.
Yes, the later engine has a DPF but that has nothing to do with the cam or bearings.

It appears to be backwards compatible possibly

Castrol 507.00 does not replace 505.01

It was my understanding from what I have read on this forum, various oil manufacters web sites and other web forums that the VW 507.00 spec covered the 505.01 requirements.( including this one from Castrol http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/5032_SLX_Professional_LLIII_Powerflow_119390_2007_03.pdf...

forums.tdiclub.com

.

 

My guess is that VW changed the material or heat treatment or coating treatment or the mechnical design of the cam or the PD followers to eliminate the need for the high ZDDP 506.01 oil when they introduced the DPF on these cars and changed to 507 oil with its low ash requirements to slow DPF fouling. Pity VW does not properly explain the change.

 

My guess is that VW changed the material or heat treatment or coating treatment or the mechnical design of the cam or the PD followers to eliminate the need for the high ZDDP 606.0

Of coa1 oil when they introduced the DPF on these cars and changed to 507 oil with its low ash requirements to slow DPF fouling. Pity VW does not properly explain the change.

It's so frustrating when they spend millions doing the research then next year they say it's OK.
I've looked at the price of replacement cams just in case and there isn't any mention of being suitable for later engines.
I thought of buying a cam then having it Teflon or ceramic coated.

Of course if I buy a cam and the timing kit before it's needed I'll never need it.
Just like you only ever need a spare tyre if you've left your spare at home.

I've got a spare camshaft sensor in my drawer doing it's job of not being needed.

 

From my limited research on this forum re 2.5 oils , the change from 'early' to 'late' is around the fuel injection systems . Early used Pumpe Duse which was driven from the cam lobes , resulting in a narrower lobe and therefore more wear . Later used common rail , which explains the ability to us e a lower[?] grade oil . This info was gathered from many posts around 2013 , so it has been around for a long time.

 

From my limited research on this forum re 2.5 oils , the change from 'early' to 'late' is around the fuel injection systems . E
arly used Pumpe Duse which was driven from the cam lobes , resulting in a narrower lobe and therefore more wear . Later used common rail , which explains the ability to us e a lower[?] grade oil . This info was gathered from many posts around 2013 , so it has been around for a long time.

Ok, that makes sense. I didn't know the later R5 wasn't PD.
I wonder why That hasn't shown up in camshaft searches.
Maybe they just list 2004 to 2006 and I just didn't notice.

 

Now that I know where to look; the early engine code is BAC and the later engine is BPE.
A quick look on ebay for camshafts lists them as suitable for 2003 to 2010 so no difference between the two engines.

 

Touaregs didn't get the CR motors.... those were for the crafters and such.
If you'd quit being so cheap and get the service manuals and documentation that applies to the exact vehicle you have, you wouldn't have to rely to garbage info you get from ebay or from others who mislead you.

 

Touaregs didn't get the CR motors.... those were for the crafters and such.
If you'd quit being so cheap and get the service manuals and documentation that applies to the exact vehicle you have, you wouldn't have to rely to garbage info you get from ebay or from others who mislead you.

I have the correct information for my vehicle, thank you.
In your usual way you're in so much of a hurry to deride and insult that you didn't even read the question.
Your answer has nothing to do with the question, as usual, and who mentioned a CR engine? Ebay? Wtf?

Go back to sleep.

 

Here's were you'll find the CRs

EC	KW	HP	LTR	CYL	MOUNTING TIME	MODEL	REMARK
BJJ	65	88	2,50	5	04/2006-07/2011	Crafter	TDI CR
BJK	80	109	2,50	5	05/2007-07/2011	Crafter	TDI CR
BJL	100	136	2,50	5	05/2007-07/2011	Crafter	TDI CR
BJM	120	163	2,50	5	04/2006-07/2011	Crafter	TDI CR
CEBA	65	88	2,50	5	05/2009-07/2011	Crafter	TDI CR
CEBB	80	109	2,50	5	05/2009-07/2011	Crafter	TDI CR
CECA	100	136	2,50	5	05/2009-07/2011	Crafter	TDI CR
CECB	120	163	2,50	5	06/2011-07/2011	Crafter	TDI CR

 

who mentioned a CR engine?

Reading is very important... and clearly above you!

Later used common rail

I didn't know the later R5 wasn't PD.

So, if they weren't PD as per your deduction (not sure how this could be since)

I have the correct information for my vehicle, thank you.

.... what were they?

 

Don't worry, I actually got the answer I was looking for with the help of people who can actually understand the written word and aren't just trying to find things to mock.
Did you even figure out what the original question was?
I noticed you didn't even address it during your rambling diatribe.

 

Allow me to read this OVER AND OVER again to see what the question was..... originally.....

 

Got.... here's the answer!

It is NOT the same engine!

 

Good to see that you finally actually read the question.
Or did it just take you that long to understand it?

So, what IS the difference between the BAC and BPE?
More to the point, why is 505.01 or 506.01 essential in the the BAC but the BPE uses 507.
More importantly, why cant the 507 be used in the BAC?
Don't forget that the DPF isn't part of the engine.

 

So if Treg 2.5 TDI engines did not get CR injection then the change to allow VW 507 oil instead of 506.01 when DPFs were added must have been made to the cams or PD injectors so they tolerated low SAPS oil 507 oil required to not foul as rapidly the DPF with ash . Potentially this may have been a DLC ( Diamond Like Carbon) coating in the PD lifter to offset the lower ZDDP levels in 507 oil ?

 

That may very well be but there's no mention of that in listings of cams and injectors for sale. Just that they're suitable for 2003 to 2010 with no distinction.

 

If VW did not make the difference clear then maybe the after market suppliers are not aware ? You would have to research to see if VW changed the cam or injector part numbers at all when they changed to the 507 oil recommendation for the 2.5 TDI. Or maybe VW is an enthusiastic burst of oil rationalisation with their dealers changed to 507 and eliminated 506.01 and no care about any long term problems as they would emerge well after warranty expiration

 

That's a big problem. You never know what the reasoning behind the manufacturer's decisions are. 'It will last until the warranty runs out' isn't really good enough for me.
Neither is using very lightweight oil to bring the fuel consumption numbers down if the lighter weight isn't really up to the task. Until the warranty runs out.

 

I'll research part numbers and see what turns up.

 

Camshaft part numbers are
070109101P and
070109101M for 2003 to 2005 and
070109101Q for 2008 - 2010 with no explanation what the the letter suffix means.
VAG often has similar part numbers with a mysterios letter suffix.

Rod bearings are 038105701A across the board so that implies that 507 is ok for the rod bearings in the earlier engines.

 

The letter suffix on part numbers usually indicates a change in the part or, it's been suggested in the past, a change in the supplier.

Within this thread is clear documentation that VW do not regard 507.00 as backwards compatible and it states that early R5 and V10 owners should continue using 506.01.

Whilst it would be interesting to know what was subsequently changed in these engines to allow the use of 507.00, the point from which you set out, I think owners would be ill-advised to ignore the VW documents advising them so clearly to stick with 506.01.

 

[QUOTE="TommiT, post: 2203849,

Whilst it would be interesting to know what was subsequently changed in these engines to allow the use of 507.00, the point from which you set out, I think owners would be ill-advised to ignore the VW documents advising them so clearly to stick with 506.01.
[/QUOTE]
What I'm doing is using a 5w40 oil with 0.125% zddp by mass full synthetic.
The manufacturer claims 505.
I've used it for 152,000km of its 320,000 life. So far so good.

The 506.01 from the same manufacturer is 0w30 with.0.085% zddp by mass.

 

Clearly VW changed the cams and PD injectors when they changed the oil to 507 and added a DBF on the 2.5 TDI. My bet is a material change or use of DLC is reflected in the part number suffix change to allow low ZDDP 507 oil.

 

It's just guessing at this stage though.
I haven't seen any camshaft supplier boasting about how great their cam surfaces are. For this model.

 

Can you link me web links to the 3000 other manufacturers on the planet that have links to cam suppliers that elaborate in detail everything you are wanting to know about a Touareg 2.5?

 

Where did you get the number 3000 from?
No matter how many there are I haven't seen any talk about how special the hard facing on their cams are.

Have you?

 

No, because manufacturers don't always put out official publications on every single little change that they make in their metallurgy or design etc, although VAG does a pretty darn good job in general especially in modern days. You want to know exactly why the oil requirements changed and what changed within the engine, that's not always something to manufacture is going to publish.

 

Doesn't stop me trying to find out.

Often a manufacturer of after market parts that is making an improved part that adresses a known weak point will include this improvement in their advertising.
The window regulators for an E39 BMW for instance.
I'm just saying that I've seen no such advertising for an R5 cam.

 

Doesn't stop me trying to find out.

Often a manufacturer of after market parts that is making an improved part that adresses a known weak point will include this improvement in their advertising.
The window regulators for an E39 BMW for instance.
I'm just saying that I've seen no such advertising for an R5 cam.

The r5 is also a Rather small, niche market overall

 

I see you can't suggest one manufacturer who might shed some light on it, rather you just said that it's just a small market anyway.

Meanwhile sooty is laughing like a loon over something that he he thinks is funny.

I don't understand why people who don't know or don't understand the question feel that they have to crap on people who are trying to find out these bits of esoteric knowledge.
So far nobody has offered a reasonable explanation for the different cam codes, instead I'm just told it's a small market anyway.

 

Soot is laughing like a loon 😅😅😅😅

Yes you are correct, the answer is likely nobody has the answers you are looking for. So use the proper oil for your automobile as per the manufacturer or I reckon you'll have to deal with the consequences (ala The thread you started where your car is spewing black smoke...)

 

Talk to Clive Cams in Ballarat they may be able to shed some light on it. Clive who started the business many years ago was the Cam Guru in Australia and has unfortunately retired but the new owners hopefully can help

 

Talk to Clive Cams in Ballarat

I will. Also I used to have a relationship with Ivan Tighe when I was racing, they're just over in the next suburb.
My brother says he knows a cam expert but he didn't ever race so I don't know how he knows him.
I've emailed a few suppliers asking about the the different part numbers, I haven't had a reply yet. Only a few though, nothing like the claimed 3000.