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Discussion Starter #1
So, there's been a lot of discussions around here about upgrading to FMIC, better SMICs, or going Air\Water because the OEM SMICs allegedly suck...... well, I had to go fuel up, so I decided to take a log just too see what it says.

Check it out if you care.
 

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you should first do your own research and not rely on clubtouareg, not that we arent a bright bunch but there is a ton of info already on youtube and other forums not to mention your location plays a big role on either!
thanks for shutting my thread also!

Join the dark side and upgrade!:alien:
 

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I use a water to air intercoolerer on my Corvette. I have since 1992. I was a Race car fabricator many years ago so I was able to get a lot of inside information at the time (no internet searches!) since the car was mainly used for street racing. I used a 5 gallon fuel cell modified to be a ice tank/ water reservoir. A VW scirocco (I know I’m dating myself) radiator for a water cooler. A marine bilge pump for water circulation and -12 plumbing. A lot of work went into getting everything to work and the best it would do is run 20 degree cooler iat vs water temperature. Now at the race track a 1/4 mile run would make ice into near boiling water in the return lane. If runni on the street some type of antifreeze will need to be used at some point and the efficiency will depress.

Today I would run a air to air if I had the frontal area in the bumper to do so. Less expensive, complicated and probably close to the same efficiency. I think if after all the time that has past if water was much better we would see it in play on a Cayenne Turbo S. That all said, screwing with a Touareg Intercooler is not something I would spend time on. I don’t think any temperature drop would be significant enough to warrant the time and effort. Much simpler to find a real tuner and run with that. Unfortunately there is only one tuner that really has the experience in the USA. I don’t here much about him on this forum so I guess the knowledge base may be lacking.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Like I previously said. There's a place for W/A... And it can certainly be more efficient than a plain FMIC... But there are a lot of factors and conditions to be considered when designing such a system for a specific use.

I simply took this log to see how bad the OEM solution was, since there's so much talk around here about upgrading to FMIC or W/A because the SMICs suck so bad.... But no one ever shows any evidence of said suckage or improvements after their mods.....
 

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The stock coolers actually suck a$s and here is the reason why only if you are a offroader, if you go to the mall and drop kids off to school or drag race your touareg certainly no benefit for you.

1: wheel clearance i got 285s whilst offroading can see a branch of sticks easily being picked up and throw into the intercooler causing puncture of some sort so cheap insurance

2: this applies to australia alot of remote places we tend to go to you would be lucky to see another car for days so simplicity for getting rid off spaggeti pipes will one day be useful like serpentine belt so accessible now and chances are you will have to change an alternator in a muddy environment on the side of some track someday

3: inlets in stock coolers face up.. when I removed mine there was nearly a litre of blow by oil at the bottom of them not to mention if you injest water on the tracks you are also going have a hard time draining all the water out, this may seem silly but it happens

4: water to air in general is the most used intercooler in Australian offroaders for a very good reason
Slow crawling speeds, 45 degree days at the beach, some where in the wilderness regardless of vehicle speed you can be assured your intake temps will be hovering below ambient temps and I can vouch for this from experience from previous builds

5: plastic end tanks on stock coolers just not worth changing over to porcher ones because of the ridiculous pricing and you're back to square one, risk damaging them whilst flying off a sand dune

Now you can understand the benefit of such system upgrade im sure there was more as I was tearing the crap out of stock system :p and to be honest still thinking off removing more vw crap of mine to make it more bush proof
I could host a dance party between the engine and radiator now
240318
 

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So, there's been a lot of discussions around here about upgrading to FMIC, better SMICs, or going Air\Water because the OEM SMICs allegedly suck...... well, I had to go fuel up, so I decided to take a log just too see what it says.

Check it out if you care.
Your temps compared to outside look approx the same as mine. Temps here are about 26-27c at the moment, my iats are normally about 31-32. What sort of egt do you see under a good load max?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Your temps compared to outside look approx the same as mine. Temps here are about 26-27c at the moment, my iats are normally about 31-32. What sort of egt do you see under a good load max?
I haven't done any such logs, so we will need to wait a while before I can get some hot temps again. I just stored my travel trailer for the season, but I'd like to do another similar log when ambient temps are over 30c and I'm towing ~2.5T as that will show us my most demanding scenario.

I'm sure that you kids down under driving on a beach or through the bush would get much different differences as your airflow would be significantly different..... But then once again, hopefully you have fans on your heat exchanger (that you can turn off when you dunk the egg into a creek), as well as multiple speeds on your pump (or at least a hi/lo).
 

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Interesting logs TurboABA - you beat me to these logs! It seems intake temps stay within ~7* of static air temps. It also appears your logs are all just putt-putting around, no WOT runs. Can you consider some WOT runs to see the temp. variances too?
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
As I stated, I basically did this randomly, as I was heading to get fuel.... it wasn't a planned out "log" session, on empty roads, etc. I fired the egg up in the driveway, merged onto a freeway on a weekend, managed to lay into it slightly on the on-ramp and where traffic allowed, managed to break the speed limit enough to be in danger of getting my license taken away, and then pulled off and fueled up.

I honestly don't have any reason to beat up on my egg doing unnecessary launches, WOT pulls to redline or top speed runs just to see if the SMICs can sustain things that I will most likely never do.... this is an SUV and a tow vehicle, not my weekend track car or anything that I can see needing all this additional improving based on my use. I can't really think of situations where I've stood on it for longer than 10-15s before needing to back off in the 2 years I've had it.

For those of you who do 1320 runs, or drag everyone at every light, or do the Texas mile or hill pulls, or offroad, there might be additional value in that kind of logging.... or if you are tuned or modded I guess. Since I'm full stock and neutered, I can't justify going down that path until I feel there's something to gain for my typical usage.

I will however try to do some more logs next season when I'm towing, as that will certainly be more demanding than what I did here, and should provide some very different temps for sure.
 

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I look forward to the tow-logs. Those will probably be even more beneficial than 0-60 or 1320 logs. Thanks!
 

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TurboABA, you should "take one for the team" and go on an extra towing vacation this year.

You know, just for the the data, the enrichment of science. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yeah... Hard pass.
My TT is about 2hrs away, on a restricted access site, all winterized and everything.... The team will just have to wait, or maybe we have some "trail-blazers" who can step up, hook up their more accessible trailers (TT/CT/boat) and VCDS, and simply log the same channels.

I was kinda hoping that someone in a hotter climate like TX/AZ would step up so that we can see how things fluctuate when things get toasty.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
And because "why not", if I were to jump on the "we need to upgrade" bandwagon without any further logs, I would probably look at an existing SQ5 FMIC aftermarket offering such as this, and simply "stuff it" in the egg.... it looks feasible with a bit of fab\trim here and there..... just sayin...

240413
 

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Any chance someone like Eurowise in NC would be interested in helping us out? I think a Touareg should have a proper solution not something cobbled together.
 

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Any chance someone like Eurowise in NC would be interested in helping us out? I think a Touareg should have a proper solution not something cobbled together.
The odds of someone making a proper wa kit for a market as small as modified touaregs are very poor. Pay a proper motorsport fab place to make one up if you can't do it and want it.

I'd suggest logging iats in your application before you get too crazy, if they are fine, there is no need to change it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Just for fun, I decided to look at the IATs on my 2L TDI on my commute into work this morning. Ambient temp was 4 deg C and I was using my ScanGaugeII for monitoring. No fancy VCDS graph this time. Under heavy load\acceleration off the line, my IATs went as high as 12 deg C before I had to back out of it due to traffic.... Boost was probably in the 20psi range. During "normal load" cruising\driving, the IATs were about 1-2 deg C higher than the ambient temp shown on my MFD. (probably around 5psi of boost)

Just for reference, the 2L TDI is also stock, undeleted, unmolested, and with 272k on the clock..... I've had it since new, and I've never had a "cooling issue" or high EGT issue caused by insufficient aftercooling.
 

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Any chance someone like Eurowise in NC would be interested in helping us out? I think a Touareg should have a proper solution not something cobbled together.
We need people to take proper logs before even deciding that we need a better intercooler setup. From what turbo aba is writing, so far I don't see a need for a different intercooler setup. Granted that was only leisurely driving. We will see what happens when he gets his travel trailer behind it and he gets a real load on it. That will be the big determiner.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I believe where the Lemmings are going wrong with this consideration, is the specific application\use\scenario.
My needs, driving unmodified vehicles on streets\highways in a cold climate region, will be much different than someone with a chipped\modified Treg, rock crawling in Death Valley with an offroad trailer in tow. (and there are many other versions\scenarios in between those two examples)

Some of us are flooring it in a mall parking lot, others are doing it while buried in sand on a beach in 40deg C, others are doing it thought the mountain passes with a 25ft TT in tow, others are doing it while stuck in a creek, etc.

There isn't a "one solution" that's best for all those.... you need to decide what is relevant for your specific needs.

If @Megaboss268 is chipped and stuff (I'm jumping to a conclusion based on him running a TCM tune), he may very well be running more boost or stress on the system, and thus be experiencing higher IATs, etc. He may in fact benefit from an upgrade, but it's up to him to do his own logs to find out.
 

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Just checked a log I did the other day, 27°c ambient, full throttle up a grade in 3rd gear, max iat was 37°c at 4100rpm after the shift to 4th. Max egt 790.6 °c at 4600rpm.

Will do a log next Wednesday when I have to drive up a steep relatively constant grade up a mountain for 20+ min, will be interesting to see how iat goes.
 
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