[Powerstroke67]

After a long span of not owning a TDI (previously owned ALH and BHW cars) I finally picked up a 2006 Toureg V10 with 100k miles for a great deal because the dealership told the seller it needed both turbos replaced, as well as a multitude of EGT and emissions related sensors. With a little help from Malone, Darkside Developments and Buzzken the sensor issues are easily solved and I’m hoping my turbo problem is just an actuator or wiring issue, but if not I’ve already got a line on a pair of replacement turbos.

I‘ll be doing a full service including filters and fluids and was curious if having a non-dpf equipped 2006 would allow me to run any PD rated oil instead of strictly the low ash 507 variety? I’ve read oil threads and dont see any reason why I couldn’t but thought I would ask some of the experts here.

 

[Gnits]

No. That particular engine and the early R5s require not a 507, but a 506.01 oil. If you use anything different, you can start to save up for two new camshafts and some bearings already.

 

[hallkbrdz]

Run 505 oil. I buy the ECS kit here, good deal.

Oil Service Kit - With ECS Magnetic Drain Plug

Includes Genuine oil filter and Pentosin 5w-40 oil

www.ecstuning.com

 

[Gnits]

Run 505 oil. I buy the ECS kit here, good deal.

Not even the viscosity of that oil is right, let alone meeting the required VW 506.01 spec. These engines (ie. R5s and V10s without DPF, up to model year 2006) are running on 0W30 oil.

 

[hallkbrdz]

There is a lot of confusion since VW never provided clear updated guidance on oil for these things. But then they also label things as "lifetime" (that aren't of course), so whatever works best for their mileage targets and lasts the warranted period is suggested.

Either 5W-30 or 5W-40 can be used, depending on your climate (where I live heavier 40 weight oil is better). What I have learned from talking to old VW techs and various forums, for our US spec '06 5W-40 synthetic 505.01 is recommended to best lubricate the cams in the PD injection system. 506.01 was speced for the early DPF's by VW, but since my DPF's are gutted (as are the OP's) the near-impossible to obtain 506.01 spec oil is not required for ash reasons so 505.01 is just fine, which that oil meets.

 

[TommiT]

Wasn't 505 for time/distance servicing (1 year/10K miles) on the early 5 and 10 cylinder cars, and 506 for "long life" (2 years/18K miles)?

 

[Powerstroke67]

Sounds like 505 oil every 10k is going to work fine. Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Gnits]

There is a lot of confusion since VW never provided clear updated guidance on oil for these things

Yes, they did. I just pasted the relevant part of the original VW service literature about oil requirements above.

506.01 was speced for the early DPF's by VW

No, that's 507. It has low SAPS to not clog the DPF. 506 on the other side is absolutely not low SAPS, and actually contains a relatively high amount of lead and sulfur to provide proper sheer resistance.

but since my DPF's are gutted (as are the OP's) the near-impossible to obtain 506.01 spec oil is not required for ash reasons so 505.01 is just fine, which that oil meets.

Again, the oil for vehicles with DPF is 507, not 506. VW 506 is a high lead/sulfur content oil which is not suitable for engines with DPF, but is essential for these early V10 and R5 engines to prevent premature cam lobe and bearings wear.

Most 507 oils that are actually approved by VW do wear the warning on them that says not to use them in "R5 and V10 TDI engines before (6/2006)" - because those are the engines without DPF that need the 506 oil to provide proper lubrication for them, and in which using 505 or 507 oil will lead to premature cam wear.

And if an oil advertises itself to meet all VW oil specs from like 502 to 507, including 506, or any combination of 505/506/507 with not warning about those R5 and V10 engines, then just forget about it, because it means the spec sheet is definitely wrong. Because obviously an oil can't be both low and high on lead content at the same time. An oil is either low SAPS 507, and then it's not suitable for these early R5s and V10s, but good for ones with DPF, or it's high SAPS 506, and then it's perfect for the early R5s and V10s, but not good for the ones with DPFs.

 

[Gnits]

Sounds like 505 oil every 10k is going to work fine. Thanks for the input guys.

No, that's absolutely not the right oil for your engine. I mean you can ruin it any way you want. Just saying that it's absolutely and definitely not the right oil.

 

[Gnits]

Wasn't 505 for time/distance servicing (1 year/10K miles) on the early 5 and 10 cylinder cars, and 506 for "long life" (2 years/18K miles)?

No. The "predecessor" of the 506 long life was the 503, and then the 502 before that for normal service intervals - all 0W30 and 5W30 oils. But 502 was already obsolete by the time even these early R5 and V10 engines came out, so, only 503 and later specs (505, 507) were recommended for these by VW. Then it was discovered that the modern low SAPS oils cause premature wear in them, and because of that VW changed the oil recommendation back to 503/506 for these engines, and changed the design for newer R5 and V10 engines (with DPFs), so they could tolerate also the low SAPS oils. Hence the previously mentioned distinction between R5 and V10 engines up to model year 2006 and with no DPF requiring different oil than later R5 and V10 engines with DPF. 505 and 507 are fine for the latter, but absolutely not good for the earlier R5 and V10 engines, like that of OPs.

 

[hallkbrdz]

So much ado about nothing as 505 is fine then for the BWF with gutted DPFs as you stated. If you still have to run DPFs then 507. The US only got the BKW IN 2004, and those were the only ones without DPFs. All 2006 were BWF here, and the OP is in the US.

 

[Powerstroke67]

Since 507 is definitely not required in my particular case, and 505 is easy to find that’s what I am leaning towards, however if 506 oil has a better shot at protecting cams would it be a better choice?

 

[Nimhoff]

506 is what I would use personally

 

[Powerstroke67]

In the US, where is the best/easiest place to get 506 oil?

 

[Nimhoff]

For convenience, Amazon with prime ?

 

[Gnits]

Since 507 is definitely not required in my particular case

It's not that it's "not required". It's the wrong oil for your engine. As is any 505 oil, especially if it has 5W-40 viscosity, like the one recommended above.

and 505 is easy to find that’s what I am leaning towards

Follow that logic you could also just grab the first oil you see on the shelves and is closest to the register. Because, you know, it's easier to find and get that one, than the right one. And it might not even be any more the wrong oil for your car than any 505 oil.

however if 506 oil has a better shot at protecting cams would it be a better choice?

Yes, pouring an oil into your engine that was actually designed for that particular engine and vice versa is always a better choice than pouring a different oil, that was not.



I think your confusion and (that of some others' here) arise from the false assumption, that the numbers 505, 506, 507, etc somehow denote some kind of quality, and that 507 oil is somehow "better" than 506, or 506 is "better" than 505. That's absolutely not the case, and these are just numbers that denote a particular composition and property set, that is required for a particular set of engines in order to work as expected and prevent premature wear of bearings, lobes, pumps, clogging of filters, etc. Some specs migth also be "backwards" compatible, and can be used in engines that were designed for other specs originall, but that you can't tell that just by looking at the numbers.

This also means that if an engine calls for a 506 oil, then you're not doing any good to it by pouring an 507 oil into it. Actually, you're harming it, because 507 is not only not "better" but actually worse for that particular engine. It's just the wrong oil for that engine. Same thing with 505. Period. Pour that type of oil into your engine, that it calls for. If you won't, you'll save probably $20 bucks on oil or shipping costs, but in turn will soon to face and foot a repair bill running in the thousands. Or will have to face it a lot sooner than you'd have faced it if you'd have used the right oil.

 

[Powerstroke67]

For convenience, Amazon with prime ?

I can handle that. Since this is being made into a life or death situation, got a part number or link to the EXACT stuff?

 

[Powerstroke67]

This also means that if an engine calls for a 506 oil, then you're not doing any good to it by pouring an 507 oil into it. Actually, you're harming it, because 507 is not only not "better" but actually worse for that particular engine. It's just the wrong oil for that engine. Same thing with 505. Period.

Any ideas on why this Toureg and all the other ones I’ve looked at (2006/2007 models) have a sticker under the hood stating 505/507 ONLY?

 

[Nimhoff]

Liqui Moly (1151) 0W-30 Longtime Plus Synthetic Engine Oil - 5 Liter Jug https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003FMI7WS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_7rxoEb9EBN20W

I am partial to the Liqui Moly brand myself. I’ve put 216k of 420k on my 04 BEW using only Liqui Moly after the PO used it for almost the entirety of his miles on it. Can’t argue with that ??‍♂

 

[Gnits]

Any ideas on why this Toureg and all the other ones I’ve looked at (2006/2007 models) have a sticker under the hood stating 505/507 ONLY?

I've already explained why. The problem with the premature wear was only discovered afterwards (ie. after these car has been sold and used for years), so, most cars came with the wrong sticker. However, VW later revised its oil recommendations, and the new one is what I've posted into my very first post in this topic.