[volkswagens-for-life]

thanks for the reply guys,
There is some thinking to put into it.

First, material is not optimal; but better than aluminized steel normally used in car industry for exhaust; which typically last 10ish years. I don’t think I’ll keep the car that long. Nothing wrong with it, love it; but I don’t think I ever had a car that long in my life. 5-8 years maybe. The only thing that could justify to sell it at this point would be tremendous maintenance cost; as I really enjoy the vehicle & look. Not ideal, doesn’t seems like a deal breaker.

Second, with power dream/goal; 2.5in seems quite tight for a 3.0 engine. I mean, I was running a 2.5in on a 1.8 Vtec engine and it was fine. I understand that bigger is not better because of the velocity loss, and turbocharged engine get backpressure from the exhaust manifold/turbo and what comes after that is not a big game changer. 3in seems right…

I am not concern about fitment for the Buzzken.

The rawteck posted above is almost the same price (620 USD VS 560USD) but shorter. 304 SS and 3in. I guess I’ll wait.

Interestingly, rawteck downpipe is cheaper than buzzken.

Bigger is always better with turbocharged applications but there is definitely a cost benefit ratio involved. 2.5" had been in used in 800 and 1000 hp builds. Obviously a bigger DP and exhaust would unleash more power, but it can do an it. 2.5" downpipe had been proven at 500 and 550 hp on the 3.0 tdi also. So, if you CAN do bigger, and it fits and isn't a ton more, do it. Otherwise 2.5" is sufficient.

 

[zambony]

rawtek black friday deal is 30% off. cheaper than the buzzken kit
582$ USD to my door rawteck vs 617$ USD for buzzken and better quality.

No brainer. 304SS 3in. happy. and ordered.

 

[zambony]

any benefit of doing the downpipe too? asking for a friend.

Cat Delete Downpipe for 2013-2016 3.0L TDI Touareg, Q7 and Cayenne

Primary Cat delete downpipe for 2013-2016 Touareg, Q7 and Cayenne

www.rawtekinc.com

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

There is always a huge benefit in doing a downpipe, the stock ones are restrictive

 

[zambony]

There is always a huge benefit in doing a downpipe, the stock ones are restrictive

The killer question is "how much benefit". Loosing the primary CAT will definitely has a huge impact on emission/smell.

and... how much HP can the stock fueling system take? I think that might be a "revised" goal. 330ish? 90 over stock? if so, that would mean a 2260 turbo and call it a day.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

once you start deleting your DPF and catalytic converter and all that stuff your noise and smell and smoke are definitely going to go up considerably

 

[zambony]

For the DPF delete, I am a bit curious why they didn't use the shorter route. Picture from another thread on this forum

picture of buzzken

 

[TurboABA]

No support hanger over by the battery..... hanging your exhaust pipe off the spinning propshaft doesn't work well.

 

[zambony]

touché

 

[TurboABA]

I take that back.... the additional hanger shown in the buzken pic caused me to look at the manual, and there is a hanger right on the shaft bearing support.... #2

 

[TurboABA]

Clear as day in this view at the 90deg elbow

 

[zambony]

there is a decent deal on a GTB2260VK, used. hummm

 

[TurboABA]

You want GTD if you want to increase response time.... just sayin...

 

[zambony]

please educate me. What is the difference with GTB VS GTD?

this is the guy I was looking into. It think it comes from an European engine.

edit
found this

Latest "D" generation = extended tip, 850C/1500F sustained egt's, billet wheel, ceramic bearing, "internal" stop screw (sounds like a pain to adjust).

 

[TurboABA]

Yes.... the letter identifies the generation... the latest gen has the best features from bearings to component design, etc. (read also the best efficiency, spool, blah blah blah). There are tons of technical things to discuss if you really want to compare.

On that snail, it's the same gen\tech as what you have now, only slightly bigger, so you're adding lag to gain a little more later on.... you have a GTB2056 now

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

there is a decent deal on a GTB2260VK, used. hummm

I'm always worried to buy used turbo. Nobody knows how it was maintained or beat on

 

[zambony]

Yes.... the letter identifies the generation... the latest gen has the best features from bearings to component design, etc. (read also the best efficiency, spool, blah blah blah). There are tons of technical things to discuss if you really want to compare.

On that snail, it's the same gen\tech as what you have now, only slightly bigger, so you're adding lag to gain a little more later on.... you have a GTB2056 now

The actual differences are quite hard to get. Blades are a little longer (B vs D), hard to speculate any performances differences between the 2. I know the D would outperform the B, but… by how much?

I am going for a DPF delete + downpipe, I need a new tune for sure. Might as well get a slightly bigger turbo. Considering the backpressure drop and still limited changes in the turbo, I would expect the turbo spool to remain “about” the same; and a modest but still appreciable power increase.

The idea is to add just a bit more (40-50hp? As per the table from darkside), and ensure the fuel system can keep up. Assuming a 280HP (crank) at the moment, this could bring to 320ish HP. Darkside claims OEM fuel system in that range too, so this sounds like a sweep spot.

Piezo Injector Upgrade for Later 3.0 TDI CR Engines

All injectors supplied are all brand new Bosch units and Digitally Calibrated to the most extreme accuracy

www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk

To top it off, the price of the turbo can be slightly offset by selling mine for a 4cyl TDI.

I'm always worried to buy used turbo. Nobody knows how it was maintained or beat on

100% true for a used turbo. I would definitely check for shaft play + thrust and inspect compressor cleanliness for any evidence of cartridge seal. But a seller with bad intention could cover some signs for sure.

 

[TurboABA]

....hard to speculate any performances differences between the 2. I know the D would outperform the B, but… by how much?

In order to compare, you'd need to look at two similar sizes, which isn't what you're doing.

.....Considering the backpressure drop and still limited changes in the turbo, I would expect the turbo spool to remain “about” the same;

So you're adding larger compressor and exhaust wheels and expect similar spool? What makes you believe the OEM exhaust is restrictive or induces backpressure at low RPMs where the turbo hasn't even spooled up? Nothing is happening yet, so where's your exhaust flow coming from?

 

[zambony]

I think you missed read me, or maybe I wasn’t clear: I cannot get data on how much better is a GTB2260 VS GTD2260. Even if I see the specs difference and speculate on improved durability, it is hard to extrapolate how much difference it will make on the engine output. We would need 2 dyno for the same car running both turbo configuration with exact same specs. I am sure there are benefits, but I cannot even speculate how much.



For the spool, darkside claims a 100RPM difference between on a 4 cylinder between GTB2056VK VS GTB2260VK. Considering the 4 cyl gets full boost at 2700RPM where the 3.0 is 1700RPM, I would guess that the full boost could erase just under half of that 100RPM, so 1760RPM or something with the GTB2260.

https://i.ibb.co/n1qc2LL/turbo-specs.png

Then, for the reduce back pressure, you are right, I mentioned “about” the same. I expect a small difference; I don’t think low end will be significantly changed. If I get full boost at 1750RPM instead of 1700 RPM, it is “about” the same for me. If you walk breathing through a large straw, you are being a bit chocked. Less than if you would be running, but still chocked. I believe the turbine is all the backpressure that diesel engine needs to be efficient. I know that on a gas engine benefit from increased back pressure at low range. Some Honda D15 engine were running on 12 valves under a certain RPM, and VTEC engagement engages 4 more exhaust valves.

This 2260 turbo upgrade seems to be the best bang for the buck I can see. A bigger turbo would require new injectors (2k$) and a more expensive turbo. That is +-2500$ for 40HP and a bigger dip on the very low range. Being OEM turbo for the same engine in Europe, I would expect the drivability to be very good.

With the extra rumble from the exhaust parts and a bit more fun under the pedal, this should be pretty fun. Not a game changer, just a 12.5% bigger smile.

 

[TurboABA]

So a few of us "beat this dead horse" already in another 30pg+ thread about a year ago or so... maybe go over it again.
Here's one of the posts where I had listed the similarly sized D turbos

3.0 TDI tunes, power upgrades and turbo upgrades

TurboABA with the ninja delete!

www.clubtouareg.com

If you are trying to get an idea of how the different gens improve, I can offer you the following dynos from the closest turbos (in a B and a D) that I can find. Please note both the improved spool and widened areas under the curve that result from the latest and greatest gen.

Your GTB2056
Full spool @ 1750 rpm and makes peak TQ for about 1k rpm
Peak HP is @ 3800 rpm for about 600 rpm

The new gen GTD2060 (almost identical, slightly larger hot side)
Full spool @ 1500 rpm (even though it's almost fully spooled at 1200) and makes peak TQ for about 1.5k rpm
Peak HP is @ 3200 rpm for about 1.1k rpm

Once you're done taking in the numbers, look at the AREA UNDER THE CURVE.

So once again, the latest gen tech, is the $hit when it comes to technology, performance and efficiency.

Lastly, if you're looking for first hand input on the GTB2260, ask @tdimark69 as I believe he's running it, or something very close to it (also with all the supporting deletes, etc), and he speculates that he's in the mid 350s as far as power.