[zambony]

Still talking with Malone, got this updated dyno sheet. Since it seems to interest quite a few people, and I like how the discussion is going hehe

here are his words
I don't have a dyno graph of 2260 handy at the moment.
However, the Bobby Singh Turbo (2260 Hybrid) has the following spec's "65/52mm compressor wheel, turbine 58/54 mm".

With that said I personally think a 2566VK would be the sweet spot instead of a straight-up 2260 which won't give that much gain in performance.

Here's a dyno graph of stage 2 for comparison

he send along this very useful table too. makes quite a lot of sense. Except the Touareg has a 2056 turbo and Malone claim 305HP with their stage 2 tune LOL But again, the number on the dyno is almost irrelevant IMO. What matters is the curve shape on the same dyno and differences between setups.

 

[Brendanm]

That table was stolen from Darkside, and from memory is for 1.9 or 2.0.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

I will drop it with H& R (most likely with Bilstein B6 shocks) + spacers; most likely after winter. My truck has 203k km on OEM shocks, it can almost be considered maintenance and not covered by any warranty. This is definitely a GO. The look will improve for sure, no doubts.

however, like I mentioned before the power upgrade is more of a whish list at the moment than a real shopping list. I want to get the grossery list along with the performance gain and evaluate if it is worth it or not before making a move. I won't purchase anything before that. Now I know I am NOT looking for a crazy 2872 turbo or something like that. I would go a more conservative 2260 or 2265 to minimize turbo lag.

bare minimum for more power:
turbo is 1500$ ish, tune is 250$ USD

so looking around 2k$ for bare minimum, rough estimated power would be 330 crank HP to max out the fuel delivery system.
Is 2k$ justified 50HP. Not a No, but definitely a clear yes. Still need to sleep on it.

extra
225$ USD tune for DPF delete (as I am stage 2 already) if done at the same time
approx 1000$ for DPF delete (Buzkken)
+++ if CP3 or injectors upgrade.

My guess would be that another 2500$ would be required to get a solid 350-370HP at the crank (with DPF). So total would be close to 5k$ for 100hp, which is quite steep for the power gain.

There is still some thinking to put into all that.

Phew where to start

You're dropping it with H&R and Bilstein B6 - check. That will make for a great handling Touareg.. but will also destroy its prowess in the snow (which I know you get in Canada)

Next - what do you mean "spacers"? Do you mean wheel spacers?? If you're referring to lift spacers, they will not work with a lowering kit

Turbo - you are WAY off. You are looking at British pounds - once you do the conversion, pay the fat ass VAT tax etc.. you're looking about $3k USD for that turbo

There are NO drop-in CP3 kits for your car. So, while you can spend the $2k USD importing the CP3 upgrade.. you will be custom engineering the actual install and engineering your own parts to get it to work

For 400-450 wheel horsepower you are NOT going to be in it for less than $5k USD and thats doing most of the work yourself.

10k$ is definitely a no go for such power gains. we'll see how it rolls out. The DPF delete might happens anyway if it get troublesome, it is most likely cheaper to delete than OEM fix. As there doesn't seems to get a significant power gain, but definitely a big change in emissions I'll wait. I do a lot of short city driving...
Turbo upgrade would happen if the turbo fails AND I cannot get it fix under warranty. we'll see!

As for the tune price, Malone only charges the tune price difference +100$ for re-flash when changing tune. I already paid 650$ for stage 2, stage 3 is 800$ so I have to pay 150+100$ for the new tune. If I do the DPF delete, it is another 250$ on top. If I only do the DPF delete, it is 250$ + 100$.

I got a quote for 1100$ CAD for springs with installation (springs are 500$ CAD alone), I find it a bit steep. Considering the struts have to be remove to install the springs, the truck/struts age and significant amount of labor involve, I want to do it properly and do the shocks at the same time as the springs. I expect the suspension bill to be a bit more, most likely top plates and some linkages/bushing will be required too. Doing only the springs now, and upgrade the shocks in a year or so doesn't make sense financially. The plan is to keep the car 5-8 years, so I guess I can get most of the life out of the B6 struts. All in all, this should be just over 3k$ CAD for struts, springs and spacers.
springs, 450$ (275$ USD for ECS or other)
struts: 1600$ (1581$ from rockauto, if no duties)
spacers & bolts:400$ (225$ USD + shipping)
Labor: 500$
duties, taxes, alignement, surprises...

The point of deleting the DPF is for minute performance gains.. but massive reliability gains and a huge drop in EGTs and a huge gain in off-boost and also on-boost response

The reason for expensive spring install is because they charge 'per axle'... Per axle I was quoted I think $500 USD for the rear and $550 USD for the front for any work involving shocks, springs etc. Its worth it- its a bitch working on these cars

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

That table was stolen from Darkside, and from memory is for 1.9 or 2.0.

Yes you are correct

 

[TurboABA]

Here's a dyno graph of stage 2 for comparison

I'm gonna tap out now since whatever you're looking at is not what we've been talking about at all, so you've lost me.
Based on your evidence, you're starting off with a Stock setup that's making significantly more power and torque than my vehicle (same year and spec as yours) is even rated for.

 

[zambony]

That table was stolen from Darkside, and from memory is for 1.9 or 2.0.

Yes I know. It is written in the background. I believe the engine displacement for peak power is irrelevant for turbo sizing; as long as the turbo can spool it. I mean, the turbo sized for air velocity/pressure. If it fills 4 or 6 cylinders doesn’t matter. It DOES affect drivability (lag), but not PEAK power.

Phew where to start

You're dropping it with H&R and Bilstein B6 - check. That will make for a great handling Touareg.. but will also destroy its prowess in the snow (which I know you get in Canada)

Next - what do you mean "spacers"? Do you mean wheel spacers?? If you're referring to lift spacers, they will not work with a lowering kit

Turbo - you are WAY off. You are looking at British pounds - once you do the conversion, pay the fat ass VAT tax etc.. you're looking about $3k USD for that turbo

There are NO drop-in CP3 kits for your car. So, while you can spend the $2k USD importing the CP3 upgrade.. you will be custom engineering the actual install and engineering your own parts to get it to work

For 400-450 wheel horsepower you are NOT going to be in it for less than $5k USD and thats doing most of the work yourself.

I don’t think winter drivability will be affected that much in the snow. The H&R drop is only 1.4in. T3 have approx. 8in ground clearance (6.5 after the drop), for comparison a Golf sportwagen has 6.9 and is fine.
As for the wheel spacer, I will only get them after the drop is done based on new suspension geometry to evaluate how much is needed. I saw a picture of a member here and I really like the stance. H & R with 15-20mm spacers

As for HP goal, I am looking for another 100hp; assuming I am at 280HP right now would be looking at 380 HP ish but most importantly loose as much low end power as possible. Larger turbo 2872 are out of question, but I agree it would be required to do +400 HP which is not my goal. Malone recommended Bobby Singh Turbo (2260 Hybrid) or 2566.

I am educating myself to see what would be required to do it. CP3 definitely look complicated… and expensive. The turbo itself a lot less, like I mentioned I would expect the snail alone to be 1000-1500$, I would not import it from UK.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

^I could believe the blue line as being a stock 3.0 TDI... Volkswagen frequently underrates performance. But I'm not sure if we're looking at whp or chp in that chart.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

zambony - I guess it depends how much snow you get. I had a WRX that had 6.1" of ground clearance, which is only a little less than what your Touareg will have w/ the H&R drop, and I frequently had issues of dragging frame and high centering in the snow we get here. The Touareg has never had that problem.

 

[zambony]

it says engine HP (eng HP) which is simply considering a constant % based on drivetrain loss; and is irrevelant. What matters is the difference between runs with the same car on the same dyno

 

[zambony]

oh we do get a lot of snow, no question. I might plow in some places from time to time, but most of the time it should be fine. AWD will get me out of trouble.

we saw some +30in in 24h and crazy stuff like that. hehe

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

it says engine HP (eng HP) which is simply considering a constant % based on drivetrain loss; and is irrevelant. What matters is the difference between runs with the same car on the same dyno

"engine horsepower" usually means crank HP. You're right though - the disparity between mods is the important part. Actually, in this day and age I dont give a **** WHAT the dyno says.. I'd rather see track numbers since those are what counts. So what if you made 100hp extra on the dyno if you only picked up a tenth of a second in the 0-60 or 1/4 mile lol. You know?

oh we do get a lot of snow, no question. I might plow in some places from time to time, but most of the time it should be fine. AWD will get me out of trouble.

we saw some +30in in 24h and crazy stuff like that. hehe

Well, my wrx was also all wheel drive.. and on studded snow tires.. when you're high centered from being too low, all wheel drive doesn't do too much

 

[TurboABA]

zambony - I guess it depends how much snow you get. I had a WRX that had 6.1" of ground clearance, which is only a little less than what your Touareg will have w/ the H&R drop, and I frequently had issues of dragging frame and high centering in the snow we get here.

He's not in the arctic, and we do have paved roads and plows and salters too.....
I drive a Jetta that's lowered 2" with snow tires, doing my own plowing a lot of the time as a DD. When we get big dumps of snow, then I have to throw the towel in and grab the Touareg so that I don't get beached......

A lowered Touareg will not have issues unless they start driving thought ditches and fields when the big snow flies.

 

[zambony]

oh oh.
or should I say ho ho ho?
Buzzken delete kit is on sale

VW 3.0L CR TDI Touareg & Q7 DPF and SCR Delete Kit by BuzzKen (AAR1564)

16 Gauge Stainless steel DPF delete kit for 3.0L TDI

www.tunemyeuro.com

it annoys me that it is made in Canada, shipped to USA, then shipped back to Canada. I will most likely pay duties/ bein rape by UPS...

I didn't pull the trigger yet, but it is sitting in my cart; looking at me.

 

[TurboABA]

Junk.... uses cheap 409 SS... read Stainless that will rust from all the salt we drive through.
Also very pricey in my opinion.... there's nothing to it... any fab shop and muffler shop with a mandrel bender should be able to make you that..... but everyone needs to make money, so I can see the other side as well.

 

[zambony]

The rawtek equivalent is even more expensive. but made from 304 SS and 3in VS 2.5 OD.

Touareg & Q7 (2009+) & Porsche Cayenne DPF, Adblue & SCR Delete Parts Kit - (tuning required, not included)

Increase the performance, reliability and fuel economy of your 2009-2016 VW Touareg and Audi Q7 TDI by eliminating the restrictive Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), Adblue Injection system and factory catalytic converters, thus allowing the exhaust to flow more freely.

www.rawtekinc.com

Expected life is 8-10 years as per summitracing, aprearance is definately not as good after a short while.

What is the difference between 304 and 409 stainless steel?

help.summitracing.com

arghhh I don't want to do this twice. I definitely don't intend to keep the car more than10 years (nothing wrong with it, just not my style to keep them so long), but there is more reading to do.

 

[TurboABA]

Expected life is 8-10 years as per summitracing, aprearance is definately not as good after a short while.

moderate climate - just looks at heat cycles........ doesn't take into consideration salt "bath" on top of it.

I don't know if they spray that nasty brine crap on the roads where you are, but down here, they do.... it's more or less acid and just eats our vehicles... you can see 5 year old vehicles rotting away if they are DDs and don't live in a garage.

 

[zambony]

I get you, and I am not going for it. I think. There is absolutely no rush to do it as my DPF is fine for now.

But, regular exhaust system are typically made of aluminize steel and typically last 10 years or so.

We do get a lot of salt on the road, and the car is being used mostly during winter. Worst location for rust is on the rocker panels and wheel arch. Impossible to keep a car in decent condition without proper car. This is why I added the front mudgard for the winter. Pretty sure it hasn't been rustproof too...

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

I consulted my brother-in-law regarding 409 stainless steel. I don't know nearly enough about metallurgy to make an educated comment but my brother-in-law runs a pretty huge foundry that does work all across the globe and the following is his response on 409 stainless steel:


So 409 st/stl is strong. It is not used for visual appeal. It is used a lot for car exhaust and other applications that require gas corrosion resistance. However it will rust and tarnish. Not a pretty st/stl but a workhorse in the right environment.

Also:


If would recommend 304 or 316 stainless. Much better corrosion resistance but also usually a higher pricetag. 409 will work but won't hold up to winter salt and snow well.

Also:

It will eventually rot out but not fast like regular steel. It usually starts as surface rust on the outside especially around welds then rots in until it has some holes. Like I said go with 304 or 316 if you can but 409 is definitely a lot better than a standard steel exhaust.

 

[zambony]

thanks for the reply guys,
There is some thinking to put into it.

First, material is not optimal; but better than aluminized steel normally used in car industry for exhaust; which typically last 10ish years. I don’t think I’ll keep the car that long. Nothing wrong with it, love it; but I don’t think I ever had a car that long in my life. 5-8 years maybe. The only thing that could justify to sell it at this point would be tremendous maintenance cost; as I really enjoy the vehicle & look. Not ideal, doesn’t seems like a deal breaker.

Second, with power dream/goal; 2.5in seems quite tight for a 3.0 engine. I mean, I was running a 2.5in on a 1.8 Vtec engine and it was fine. I understand that bigger is not better because of the velocity loss, and turbocharged engine get backpressure from the exhaust manifold/turbo and what comes after that is not a big game changer. 3in seems right…

I am not concern about fitment for the Buzzken.

The rawteck posted above is almost the same price (620 USD VS 560USD). 304 SS and 3in. I guess I’ll wait.

Interestingly, rawteck downpipe is cheaper than buzzken.

 

[zambony]

on another subject, I found how to disable the stability control. I don't think I'll make 1000km out of that fuel tank LOL worth it.