[volkswagens-for-life]

I will drop it with H& R (most likely with Bilstein B6 shocks) + spacers; most likely after winter. My truck has 203k km on OEM shocks, it can almost be considered maintenance and not covered by any warranty. This is definitely a GO. The look will improve for sure, no doubts.

however, like I mentioned before the power upgrade is more of a whish list at the moment than a real shopping list. I want to get the grossery list along with the performance gain and evaluate if it is worth it or not before making a move. I won't purchase anything before that. Now I know I am NOT looking for a crazy 2872 turbo or something like that. I would go a more conservative 2260 or 2265 to minimize turbo lag.

bare minimum for more power:
turbo is 1500$ ish, tune is 250$ USD

so looking around 2k$ for bare minimum, rough estimated power would be 330 crank HP to max out the fuel delivery system.
Is 2k$ justified 50HP. Not a No, but definitely a clear yes. Still need to sleep on it.

extra
225$ USD tune for DPF delete (as I am stage 2 already) if done at the same time
approx 1000$ for DPF delete (Buzkken)
+++ if CP3 or injectors upgrade.

My guess would be that another 2500$ would be required to get a solid 350-370HP at the crank (with DPF). So total would be close to 5k$ for 100hp, which is quite steep for the power gain.

There is still some thinking to put into all that.

Phew where to start

You're dropping it with H&R and Bilstein B6 - check. That will make for a great handling Touareg.. but will also destroy its prowess in the snow (which I know you get in Canada)

Next - what do you mean "spacers"? Do you mean wheel spacers?? If you're referring to lift spacers, they will not work with a lowering kit

Turbo - you are WAY off. You are looking at British pounds - once you do the conversion, pay the fat ass VAT tax etc.. you're looking about $3k USD for that turbo

There are NO drop-in CP3 kits for your car. So, while you can spend the $2k USD importing the CP3 upgrade.. you will be custom engineering the actual install and engineering your own parts to get it to work

For 400-450 wheel horsepower you are NOT going to be in it for less than $5k USD and thats doing most of the work yourself.

10k$ is definitely a no go for such power gains. we'll see how it rolls out. The DPF delete might happens anyway if it get troublesome, it is most likely cheaper to delete than OEM fix. As there doesn't seems to get a significant power gain, but definitely a big change in emissions I'll wait. I do a lot of short city driving...
Turbo upgrade would happen if the turbo fails AND I cannot get it fix under warranty. we'll see!

As for the tune price, Malone only charges the tune price difference +100$ for re-flash when changing tune. I already paid 650$ for stage 2, stage 3 is 800$ so I have to pay 150+100$ for the new tune. If I do the DPF delete, it is another 250$ on top. If I only do the DPF delete, it is 250$ + 100$.

I got a quote for 1100$ CAD for springs with installation (springs are 500$ CAD alone), I find it a bit steep. Considering the struts have to be remove to install the springs, the truck/struts age and significant amount of labor involve, I want to do it properly and do the shocks at the same time as the springs. I expect the suspension bill to be a bit more, most likely top plates and some linkages/bushing will be required too. Doing only the springs now, and upgrade the shocks in a year or so doesn't make sense financially. The plan is to keep the car 5-8 years, so I guess I can get most of the life out of the B6 struts. All in all, this should be just over 3k$ CAD for struts, springs and spacers.
springs, 450$ (275$ USD for ECS or other)
struts: 1600$ (1581$ from rockauto, if no duties)
spacers & bolts:400$ (225$ USD + shipping)
Labor: 500$
duties, taxes, alignement, surprises...

The point of deleting the DPF is for minute performance gains.. but massive reliability gains and a huge drop in EGTs and a huge gain in off-boost and also on-boost response

The reason for expensive spring install is because they charge 'per axle'... Per axle I was quoted I think $500 USD for the rear and $550 USD for the front for any work involving shocks, springs etc. Its worth it- its a bitch working on these cars

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

That table was stolen from Darkside, and from memory is for 1.9 or 2.0.

Yes you are correct

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

^I could believe the blue line as being a stock 3.0 TDI... Volkswagen frequently underrates performance. But I'm not sure if we're looking at whp or chp in that chart.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

zambony - I guess it depends how much snow you get. I had a WRX that had 6.1" of ground clearance, which is only a little less than what your Touareg will have w/ the H&R drop, and I frequently had issues of dragging frame and high centering in the snow we get here. The Touareg has never had that problem.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

it says engine HP (eng HP) which is simply considering a constant % based on drivetrain loss; and is irrevelant. What matters is the difference between runs with the same car on the same dyno

"engine horsepower" usually means crank HP. You're right though - the disparity between mods is the important part. Actually, in this day and age I dont give a **** WHAT the dyno says.. I'd rather see track numbers since those are what counts. So what if you made 100hp extra on the dyno if you only picked up a tenth of a second in the 0-60 or 1/4 mile lol. You know?

oh we do get a lot of snow, no question. I might plow in some places from time to time, but most of the time it should be fine. AWD will get me out of trouble.

we saw some +30in in 24h and crazy stuff like that. hehe

Well, my wrx was also all wheel drive.. and on studded snow tires.. when you're high centered from being too low, all wheel drive doesn't do too much

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

I consulted my brother-in-law regarding 409 stainless steel. I don't know nearly enough about metallurgy to make an educated comment but my brother-in-law runs a pretty huge foundry that does work all across the globe and the following is his response on 409 stainless steel:


So 409 st/stl is strong. It is not used for visual appeal. It is used a lot for car exhaust and other applications that require gas corrosion resistance. However it will rust and tarnish. Not a pretty st/stl but a workhorse in the right environment.

Also:


If would recommend 304 or 316 stainless. Much better corrosion resistance but also usually a higher pricetag. 409 will work but won't hold up to winter salt and snow well.

Also:

It will eventually rot out but not fast like regular steel. It usually starts as surface rust on the outside especially around welds then rots in until it has some holes. Like I said go with 304 or 316 if you can but 409 is definitely a lot better than a standard steel exhaust.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

thanks for the reply guys,
There is some thinking to put into it.

First, material is not optimal; but better than aluminized steel normally used in car industry for exhaust; which typically last 10ish years. I don’t think I’ll keep the car that long. Nothing wrong with it, love it; but I don’t think I ever had a car that long in my life. 5-8 years maybe. The only thing that could justify to sell it at this point would be tremendous maintenance cost; as I really enjoy the vehicle & look. Not ideal, doesn’t seems like a deal breaker.

Second, with power dream/goal; 2.5in seems quite tight for a 3.0 engine. I mean, I was running a 2.5in on a 1.8 Vtec engine and it was fine. I understand that bigger is not better because of the velocity loss, and turbocharged engine get backpressure from the exhaust manifold/turbo and what comes after that is not a big game changer. 3in seems right…

I am not concern about fitment for the Buzzken.

The rawteck posted above is almost the same price (620 USD VS 560USD) but shorter. 304 SS and 3in. I guess I’ll wait.

Interestingly, rawteck downpipe is cheaper than buzzken.

Bigger is always better with turbocharged applications but there is definitely a cost benefit ratio involved. 2.5" had been in used in 800 and 1000 hp builds. Obviously a bigger DP and exhaust would unleash more power, but it can do an it. 2.5" downpipe had been proven at 500 and 550 hp on the 3.0 tdi also. So, if you CAN do bigger, and it fits and isn't a ton more, do it. Otherwise 2.5" is sufficient.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

There is always a huge benefit in doing a downpipe, the stock ones are restrictive

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

once you start deleting your DPF and catalytic converter and all that stuff your noise and smell and smoke are definitely going to go up considerably

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

there is a decent deal on a GTB2260VK, used. hummm

I'm always worried to buy used turbo. Nobody knows how it was maintained or beat on

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

GTB is just an old fashioned thrust bearing

Gtd is ball bearing huge difference.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

Have you played with lighting at all in vagcom?

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

So you have a dead fog?

The headlights are supposed to zero out every time they're turned on, have you never noticed??

You can't turn fogs on without headlights

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

Yes one dead fog, which is pretty banal I know. But both fogs are 3 months old so it is quite annoying.

I noticed that the headlamps are moving when I put the car to D and they still do.
What I don't get is why I get an adaptive headlight fault when I still see them moving correctly; and the headlamp fault happens ONLY when I manually turn on the fogs. I typically never touch anything in regard to lights; set them in auto and forget them. They must be on the same circuit and one controller get a different voltage... but I would have expected than a fog issue wouldn't trouble the headlight!?

Wait, so even AFTER the he headlights do their initial zeroing when first turned on, they continue to move while driving? But this only happens after turning on fogs?

You can change your coding to use the fogs as DRLs which would do exactly what you're saying is impossible.

Indeed, but OP already stated he didn't mess with lighting coding in vagcom.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

Ah ok I got you. Do you know what brand bulbs were put in? Are they traditional halogen?

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

Very mixed feeling post.

I was under the impression that Bilstein only offers 3 shocks models (B4, B4S, B6) and not coilover. After a few post/exchanges in the handling thread I realized that Bilstein B12 (B8 struts with Eibach pro springs) ARE indeed available. I rushed to try to cancel my order from rockauto, clicked cancel on the first item (success) on my phone and THEN realise the other 3 struts were already shipped with the carrier. So, I just contacted them again to ask the carrier to return them to sender and hopefully only pay for shipping… and it is not possible.

Because there are quite significant savings shipping stuff in US rather than Canada, I still get some of my stuff on the other side of the border and a friend brings them over; so, I cannot simply refuse the package.

I understand the Bilstein B6/H & R combo isn’t bad; but the B12 is purposely made for lowered suspension. The B8 struts are a bit shorter and valve differently because of the reduced suspension travel. I would expect the B6 be a little bouncier than B8. Not the end of the world, especially since this is not a track car; but the B12 combo is about the same price; and for the same money, it will be better.

Arghhh
So excited about new suspension, disappointed that it won’t be the best combo for the same money.

Ahh bummer that you can't cancel. I'm sure you'll be happy with the b6 and h&r setup. No it won't be as absolute as the b12 kit but I'm sure you'll still love it. Give us a review after a few days driving on it!

I'm too busy trying to read your suggested books to follow along with all your adventures, but you do realise that you are starting off with an R line which means you already have sport suspension right? I can't recall off the top of my head how much lower/stiffer it is compared to the rest of us, but hopefully you've already factored that into your shopping spree.

The r line does indeed have different springs but I cannot find a single piece of literature anywhere on the planet that discusses spring rates or shock valving. Do you happen to have that information?

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

Negative. I only looked into it briefly as I wanted an R due to the aesthetic ground effects, but as soon as I saw that it would be both lower and stiffer, it was a hard pass for me so I tapped out. I do recall reading that the specifics were some huge VW secret apparently.

Interesting that Volkswagen kept spring rate information secret. That would explain why literally NO LITERATURE, even the damn service and parts dept. at the dealer, can give me any information. It's easy enough to figure out ratings of a steel coil, you just count the coil number and spacing.. but I dont have access to one of every coil for every suspension option, ha.

R line shocks are a different part number.

Correcto, but nobody seems to know exactly what the rated differences are. Hybrids have a different pn# too

I can see it doesn't get better for me today eh!

I don't mind the spending, but what bugs me is that I won't reach the goal to go 1.4in lower than what I am currently...
The truck doesn't "dive" when I steer, and there is no problem with my actual suspension... I only wanted to be a bit lower. This starts to sound more and more like wasted cash.

on the plus side, I guess my old parts are still worth something.

I'm pretty sure you'll still get your drop using the h&r setup, why do you think otherwise? Those b6 shocks are going to enhance your handing and make your ride much more sporty too
Believe it or not your car does dive under braking; European auto manufacturers have great suspension systems so it isn't noticed much, but it does happen

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

Ohh gotcha! Keep us posted, very excited to hear of your suspension journey. Are you gonna end up w/ the b12 pro-kit then?

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

B12 is the plan indeed. Just need to complete the return with rockauto first to ensure not to get parts in double. So after Jan 9th at the soonest (to order); if everything goes as planned.

can you measure your tire to fender gap? I have 4 1/4in all around

Sick!! Looking forward to that.


Just took measurements - fronts from the center of the fender liner to tires are about 4.5"
Rears from center of fender liner to tires is like 5.75" or so

Factory size 19's and factory dimension tires

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

So just to confirm, the 2004-2010 B12s work on the 2015+?

Assuming you do not have air suspension, yes you can get the B12 pro-kit for the 2004-2010 here:

B12 Pro Cup Kit

Approximate Lowering front: 30mm, rear: 30mm

www.ecstuning.com

Keep in mind, they are DIFFERENT part numbers 2004-2010 vs 2011+