[wahoo99]

:chainsaw: :chainsaw:


Bought a new V8 on Monday. No Nav CD's. We were mildly upset at time of closing the deal. We were assured that the CD's would be Fed-Ex'ed by Wednesday and delivered by Wednesday afternoon. Now it is Friday and the correspondence has been via email, voicemail and phone conversation. The answer is the usual, I'm working on it. They'll be here. Correspondence ensues. No return calls, no updates. We were assured Thursday delivery. *Surely they're here, right?* Ok, fine! We'll pick up the CD's.

Well, wife goes to pick them up today, after emailing, voicemail etc. throughout the day. Our correspondence said to give us an update on the status of the CD's..Now we are going to the dealership to pick up, what should have been in the vehicle to begin with. Our guy told my wife, that 'sorry, I don't have them'...she drove 30minutes out of her way in Atlanta Friday afternoon traffic. The car is almost a week old for [email protected]#[email protected]$% sake. Why is it so [email protected]#$% hard to get call someone and simply get the [email protected]#$% CD's overnighted?

Wife tersely had conversation and response..get this.......*i have to take a breath* ok, calm down (me to myself right now)--->quote ' they don't like to give the CD's away from cars here at the dealership, that we are selling' WHAT? WHAT? WTF????? Yea, like our [email protected]#%#$% car..sold, outright, on Monday night....TO US!!! :twisted:

Hows that for being turned around and reemed. My head almost exploded once I heard this. Wife was told lamely that they were going to talk 'to the sales mgr' and get this straightened out. :---)

I can tell you how I'm going to straighten this out. I"m going to put a [email protected]#% tow rope to the front door and rip it out! *j/K*

Whew! I feel better. Now off to dinner and a bottle of wine. Tomorrow, more to report!!! :twisted: :chainsaw:

Is it just wrong to want what I paid for??? Or how about a phone call and an update and 'its taken care of, we're going to do this and that, and it'll b e here ___________'......oh, wait, I forgot, thats what I was told this first [email protected]#% time. :twisted:


So much for working on delivering service or for that matter, simply delivering the damn goods.

One more thing, when we mentioned the window condensation problem, it was acknowledged etc. Why don't they check for stuff that is rampant??? (thats rhetorical) =;

 

[Doc C]

Don't get too excited about the CDs. The NAV system in the Touareg is terrible in comparison to Lexus and Infiniti. I understand your frustration by not getting them. That sucks!! I'm just saying that when you get them and use the NAV system, this may be only the beginning of your frustration. I love my Treg, it's a great car. But I used a Garmin NAV system on a Hertz rental car that was 500% better than this one, and the one in my Lexus SC430 was 500% better than that one!!!

 

[wahoo99]

Hey Doc,
Thanks for commiserating. I realize that the NAV has its limitations. Its simply a matter of promise and delivery. Lexus' NAV does not let you change the destination after you started moving. Same with Infiniti. That, in my mind, helped to seal the deal. Plus, I got a ton of compliments at the valet stand. :joy: told him 'don't hurt my new baby' response ---> 'Don't worry, the first one I've driven and its baaaaaad' :dance:

 

[Doc C]

The Lexus has WAY more data points, touchscreen, tilts to reduce glare,only 1 disk and not 5, voice activation from steering wheel button,easier destination entry, more detailed screen views (Infiniti has birdseye view that gives a 3 dimensional effect), and a nicer sounding lady IMO. This lady sounds like she'll kill you if you miss a turn. Also, it is very reluctant to change it's mind about which way you are to go to your destination. The Lexus was more flexible and would calculate routes more efficiently.

I had no problem changing destination once underway in my Lexus. It was very easy to do. If you mean, you have to stop to change destination, then I think that's a valid safety feature. You shouldn't be playing with screen while driving anyway. Especially as hard as it is to enter a destination with the VW NAV. I agree with the valet story, except the valet told me it sounded like I had a valve problem in the engine. I told him it was a V-10 diesel and it was supposed to sound that way. He didn't believe me until I popped the hood. It's a great car, but the NAV system is very inferior to other makes and aftermarket options available.

 

[spockcat]

I had no problem changing destination once underway in my Lexus. It was very easy to do. If you mean, you have to stop to change destination, then I think that's a valid safety feature. You shouldn't be playing with screen while driving anyway. Especially as hard as it is to enter a destination with the VW NAV.

My wife doesn't like me entering a new destination while I am driving so she does it. But I would hate to have to stop to do it. And while entering a new destination isn't real simple, I don't find it difficult either. Just a bit slow going.

What is easy is pulling a destination from memory. If I had to stop for those 3 or 4 keystrokes I would toss the nav out the window.

 

[4x4s]

If I had to stop for those 3 or 4 keystrokes I would toss the nav out the window.

I would suggest you pull over before you do this. It might be unsafe doing this while driving. :confused2:

 

[BULECZKA]

what dealership

What dealership are you working with, i am looking into buying one in the Atlanta area....

 

[wahoo99]

Re: what dealership

What dealership are you working with, i am looking into buying one in the Atlanta area....

Jim Ellis of Chamblee. Talk to Perry.

 

[wahoo99]

I had no problem changing destination once underway in my Lexus. It was very easy to do. If you mean, you have to stop to change destination, then I think that's a valid safety feature. You shouldn't be playing with screen while driving anyway. Especially as hard as it is to enter a destination with the VW NAV.

We're going to solve that one. Dollars to donuts that I'm trading my 328i for an '03 RX330. One lux-o cruiser, the other the real utility screamer.

My wife doesn't like me entering a new destination while I am driving so she does it. But I would hate to have to stop to do it. And while entering a new destination isn't real simple, I don't find it difficult either. Just a bit slow going.

What is easy is pulling a destination from memory. If I had to stop for those 3 or 4 keystrokes I would toss the nav out the window.

I'm with Spock. Wife changes the destinations. However, our ladies voice volume control is not working. Ugh. Even when I turn her down to 'minumum' she still is loud. Another one of our 'line items'. I think we're going to get a trans flash as the shift from 2-3 is pretty hard even at a crawl.

Outside of that, this thing kicks ass.

I will have to que others about brake dust, brake break-in, tire cleaner etc.

 

[spockcat]

wahoo, Do you know how to change the nav volume differential?

 

[vitaminB5]

Re: what dealership

What dealership are you working with, i am looking into buying one in the Atlanta area....

The service at Jim Ellis is terrible. This type of this is typical of them. I bought my Touareg there... and shouldn't have. I have since switched to Gossett for service and they are infinitely better.

 

[Doc C]

So, other than not being able to change destinations, the other features that other manufacturers have on their NAV systems don't seem to matter? The fact that entire towns and cities are not present other than a dot on the screen of the VW CD-ROM vs. very detailed info about the smallest of towns on the Lexus DVD is a huge negative for the VW NAV alone, let alone the many other features the VW system doesn't have.
If it was on a Jetta or a New Beetle, fine. But if VW wants to pi$$ with the big boys, and charge the same for their vehicle, they should improve their features. If the Phaeton has this same NAV system, no WAY would I recommend or consider it vs. an LS430. That was like when I bought my NSX this year. Last year, keyless entry wasn't standard!?!?! I would not have bought a 90K car with no keyless entry, when Kia has it standard on many cars. VW did a beautiful job on the Touareg in every respect, and then they foible up things like the NAV and the range of the keyless entry etc. These are the things that make buyers satisfied vs. turning them away at their next purchase.

There was a lot of question marks about the ability of VW to be able to compete against the best in the world in products and service with their dealers. I'm sure they will get there, but for now they seem to short of that goal.

 

[wahoo99]

So, other than not being able to change destinations, the other features that other manufacturers have on their NAV systems don't seem to matter? The fact that entire towns and cities are not present other than a dot on the screen of the VW CD-ROM vs. very detailed info about the smallest of towns on the Lexus DVD is a huge negative for the VW NAV alone, let alone the many other features the VW system doesn't have.
If it was on a Jetta or a New Beetle, fine. But if VW wants to pi$$ with the big boys, and charge the same for their vehicle, they should improve their features. If the Phaeton has this same NAV system, no WAY would I recommend or consider it vs. an LS430. That was like when I bought my NSX this year. Last year, keyless entry wasn't standard!?!?! I would not have bought a 90K car with no keyless entry, when Kia has it standard on many cars. VW did a beautiful job on the Touareg in every respect, and then they foible up things like the NAV and the range of the keyless entry etc. These are the things that make buyers satisfied vs. turning them away at their next purchase.

There was a lot of question marks about the ability of VW to be able to compete against the best in the world in products and service with their dealers. I'm sure they will get there, but for now they seem to short of that goal.

Ok, Doc:

Here goes; What do you get from your Touareg? Bottom line, having owned both BMW and Lexus as well as Acura, is this....the Touareg offers the most competently equiped vehicle, in its price range, with regard to fit, finish and powerplant. Forget the NAV. Yes, it has its limitations. Yes it annoys me with the women's voice. Yes, it doesn't show bird's eye, nor does it show streets and the zoom between .5miles and 1mile is virtually useless. HOWEVER, the graphic quality of the NAV...the actuall representation of the image, and let me *gulp* before saying this..is better than Lexus or Infiniti. The VW falls short in many categories but I bought a powerplant, not and I repeat not a luxury cruiser. The RX330 is most definitely a more supple and luxurious ride. The BMW interior is, well, underwhelming...and a sh!t load more money. 62k MSRP. The powerplant is nice but BMW does not have torquey engines. The Touareg pulls from every rpm range and holds its gear.....UNLIKE the X5 unless you get the 4.8 In a drag race, yes the X5 4.4i might and I mean might beat it..but who cares??? This is a SUV for chrissakes. TORQUE moves a vehicle. If I was interested in twisting an engine to 8k rpm and letting it moan like a damn screaming cheetah I'd have bought a Honda S2000.

Now, my critque has yet to come on the T-reg as I have had it for a week and racked up 500 miles in 5 days.

Cons:
Cup holders,
range of motion on air vents,
whistling mirrors,
orange peel paint,
6k lbs.....yes a tax break but not for me
damn annoying entry bells
buffetting sunroof..why can't they make the deflector angle higher avoiding this?
condensation on windshield
rude shift at 2-3 gear change, even when babying
6 disc changer in rear
1 disc in front
Some of these rectifiable (via TSB), some are design issues, some are just not well thought out.

Pros:
Fit, finish---nighttime illumination is nice.
Gizmos (if you care)
Pulls like hell
Sounds like extasy (sic)
Did I mention pulls like hell and sounds like a beast??? :dance:
Did I mention 2k under list?
17k under X5 4.4 MSRP
almost 100 hp more than RX330
drives like a large sports car
Unique among everything out there
Cheap insurance relative to BMW/Lexus
Rides high with the BIG BOYS :confused2:
AWD
2 feet of fjording (sic) water
7700lb towing capacity (i know, see hitch capacity)
Kick ass 19s
Above average sound system
Not being an elitist bastard and driving a Porsche (not that I care...I"m a Republican anyway )
Stupid air suspension that means nothing to an urbanite but is cool as can be.
6 piston Brembos

Need I say more?
Now, ask me if I care about that much about the NAV? No. Do i care about the 6 disc in rear? Some-not enough to not buy the vehicle. This car is for my wife and she likes it. It meets the criterion that Lexus and BMW couldn't provide in one package..and no, if price were less of a consideration would I buy a X5 4.4 or 4.8. Done the BMW thing. All about the driving experience. If I spend 70+ on ANY car it will be a 911, M5 or E55 AMG. I'm over the bitching about what this car does or doesn't have. I KNOW what it does or doesn't have--thats why I came here...I bought it because, once again, the other competitors did not have the intangibles that made it exciting for us.

On the flip side, we may purchase the RX330 as its quite a nice vehicle but I won't option it with NAV. 2 vehicles w/ a similar option just isn't a reasonable thing (for us).

On a side note, I appreciate your NSX but once again, the powerplant just doesn't excite me. Its reliable, resilient, fast but it doesn't have any grunt. Keep in mind, you're talking to a guy that would rather have a forty year old Shelby Cobra 289 or 427 b/c of its powerplant. I just don't care for highwinding (or high-winded ) machines. This is not an attack, just an opinion about what constitutes 'the big boys'.

VW has made a 'tweener' in my eyes. All segments of the market are out there and they all accomplish things differently.
FX 35/45
XC90
RX330
GX400
X5

All have a different personality and appeal to different demographics.
FX-->young, presumably urban, professionals that like Sport over Ute
XC90 --->conservative, mature, pragmatic, parent types
RX--->mature, sophisticated/country club/upscale market, less ute more lux-o.
GX-->see above
X5-->combination of FX buyer that wants the marque but more performance than RX buyers, presumably young

Touareg-->trying to allure (in my mind's eye) young, outdoorsy folks, that care less about 'marque', more about 'lifestyle' VW has branded itself an Apple type of car. non conformist hipster, likes to hike but wants to sip a Starbucks.
Is any of this a shock? No. Look at each makers literature and assign a one word adjective and/or buzz word.
Correspondingly
More Sport, less ute
Safety
Luxury (Passionate pursuit of perfection)
Ultimate driving machine (and bring money with you)
Drivers wanted--->er, what?? See Olympic comercial... once again, a 'tweener.

As for VW service, well, its VW. We paid cash and we were still treated little more than pedestrian. C'est la vie. However, if they are intelligent, they'll understand that I"m going to buy an Audi or Porsche in the very near future and not aggravate me. 'Nuff said. They have an uphill climb to understanding the clientele that purchases the upper tier of their marque... for 50+k, one needs a little pampering.

Back to the NAV--> are you really going to travel that far without knowing even remotely where the hell you're going to begin with??? :confused2: I think not. If so, I'm not riding with you Its a convenience. Like having a backscratcher..you don't 'need' it but if you do its around. I simply like the directional function of the MFI.

cheers

 

[Doc C]

I love the Touareg and it's been a good car. I bought it for $62000 cash so the BMW is not a sh--load more money. I was shopping it against a $64000 Lexus LX470, of which I owned before buying the Touareg. Don't even compare the offroad capability of the Toareg to the LX470/Land Cruiser. It's a great offroad vehicle, but not in that ballpark yet. The Mark Levinson in the Lexus is WAY better and it also has the air suspension. You ask if I would be driving anywhere where I don't know where I'm going?? In your post you mention the ability to cross 2 feet of water. Are you going to be doing that anytime soon??? Just because you may not use the capabilty of something doesn't mean it's not nice to have it. The VW NAV doesn't even have cities listed that the Lexus has detailed info on. Oh well. I never brought the BMW into the mix really and I don't understand all the comparisons to it. If you are comparing the RX to the Touareg, then I think that's unfair. The RX is a great vehicle, but you are definitely comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to draw comparisons to the "BIG BOYS", then look at the number of recalls of VW compared to Lexus. If VW wants $62K a copy for a Touareg, then they need to match the competition in that class. I think they've done well for the most part. I was only pointing out obvious weaknesses that are apparent. If you get an RX, get the NAV. You'll definitely see the difference. Even the GX470 matches the Touareg for much less. I don't know of a GX 400 you mentioned in your post (must've been a typo) but the GX470 is also a very nice SUV that has a great power plant which matches the VW V8 well. We have 5,600 miles on our Touareg, and it's been very nice. Just wish the list of cons in your post, and other people's posts weren't so long.

As far as the NSX goes, the powerplant is plenty "exciting" in most people's eyes. VTEC, titanium connecting rods. 0-60 in 4.8 and 1/4 mile in 13.2!! Get your 911 or Mercedes and take them to the track. An NSX will have plenty of "grunt" to match them on any road course. If you want a 40 year old pushrod engine, that's great. I love old muscle cars and the Cobra is a nice machine. I don't think you should dismiss an all aluminum, hand built, mid engined exotic car that still holds its own with the world's best after 13 years. It, without question, competes with and beats many of the "Big Boys" in the world.

 

[audiluv]

If reliability is a top concern then buying a new vehicle in it's first or second model year is generally not a good idea.

If you don't like the features or lack of on the Touareg and think there is something better then why buy a Touareg?

 

[wahoo99]

Well said.

 

[wahoo99]

I love the Touareg and it's been a good car. I bought it for $62000 cash so the BMW is not a sh--load more money. I was shopping it against a $64000 Lexus LX470, of which I owned before buying the Touareg. Don't even compare the offroad capability of the Toareg to the LX470/Land Cruiser. It's a great offroad vehicle, but not in that ballpark yet. The Mark Levinson in the Lexus is WAY better and it also has the air suspension. You ask if I would be driving anywhere where I don't know where I'm going?? In your post you mention the ability to cross 2 feet of water. Are you going to be doing that anytime soon??? Just because you may not use the capabilty of something doesn't mean it's not nice to have it. The VW NAV doesn't even have cities listed that the Lexus has detailed info on. Oh well. I never brought the BMW into the mix really and I don't understand all the comparisons to it. If you are comparing the RX to the Touareg, then I think that's unfair. The RX is a great vehicle, but you are definitely comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to draw comparisons to the "BIG BOYS", then look at the number of recalls of VW compared to Lexus. If VW wants $62K a copy for a Touareg, then they need to match the competition in that class. I think they've done well for the most part. I was only pointing out obvious weaknesses that are apparent. If you get an RX, get the NAV. You'll definitely see the difference. Even the GX470 matches the Touareg for much less. I don't know of a GX 400 you mentioned in your post (must've been a typo) but the GX470 is also a very nice SUV that has a great power plant which matches the VW V8 well. We have 5,600 miles on our Touareg, and it's been very nice. Just wish the list of cons in your post, and other people's posts weren't so long.

As far as the NSX goes, the powerplant is plenty "exciting" in most people's eyes. VTEC, titanium connecting rods. 0-60 in 4.8 and 1/4 mile in 13.2!! Get your 911 or Mercedes and take them to the track. An NSX will have plenty of "grunt" to match them on any road course. If you want a 40 year old pushrod engine, that's great. I love old muscle cars and the Cobra is a nice machine. I don't think you should dismiss an all aluminum, hand built, mid engined exotic car that still holds its own with the world's best after 13 years. It, without question, competes with and beats many of the "Big Boys" in the world.

Doc,
I think we are off to the wrong foot. For us, the T-reg was an option that was in-between the $$, of say, the RX and the X5. As for comparisons to the LX470/Land Cruiser, I have no opinion. A little confused. You feel that you're LX470 was a better off-road vehicle or the Touareg? Regardless, for us, the higher price point was not a consideration. I understand your points with respect to the price point of the V10. However, the V8 is a very, very handsomely equipped machine for the money. Granted, its still an expensive VW. No offense to anyone; hey, we bought one. Frankly, I totally agree with you on the V10. I think its overpriced relative to competitors' packages.

In my mind, put this thing on a diet, up the displacement to 4.6, and sell stripper 8cyl's against the X5. Revamp the folding rear seats so that the headrest does not have to be removed and so the backs can be tilted. Pull out all the plastic in the back and give it more width...
Relocate the compressor to the rear. Move CD changer under passenger seat.
Revamp NAV to DVD, in-face 6 disc changer.
And finally, quit selling b.s. add-on tire hazard yadda yadda yadda garbage to your up-scale clientele.
Revise front cup holder (deeper)
Put station control on steering wheel (haven't figured this out yet..if it exists)
All are very easy fixes.

Keep in mind that the Audi Pikes Peak will probably displace some of you V10 folks.
Just my .02.

As for the NSX. I like the car but I disagree with your points. The 911, Cobra, Ferrari, Corvette have 40+ years of race provenance. In my mind, the screaming cheetah 'exotic' nature of the NSX doesn't get my boat. Just an opinion. I'm glad you like it. Pushrods are still winning LeMans. The 911 is an aptly sophisticated machinge. See the GT2 and its race heritage. For the money, both the Cobra and 911 equally perform as well as the NSX. I haven't seen NSX's winning ALMS titles or ACO titles of late nor do they have a history. Sports cars, for that kind of money, need more visceral experience appeal. Once again, just MY opinion. Cost of ownership---the NSX is a world beater, no doubt, until you factor the Z06 into the equation. I'm not by any means, suggesting that its as sophisticated. All in the 'personality' you're looking for.

On another note, my 328i had its share of little nagging problems that resulted in 36 days in the shop in the first 18 mos of ownership. Go figure.
Its all sorted and runs phenomenal.

As for the Lexus, well, its not targeted to true outdoor living in my mind. Lexus=luxury. I happen to know a gentleman that served as GM Lexus N.A. when the marque was introduced, and I can assure you, it was targeted as a luxury line.

I feel your frustration for the V10 pricepoint and its equipment, but then again, I wouldn't have paid 62k for a VW (sorry ). I DID pay 45.5 for a loaded V8. Take the diff, put in annuity and hello 427 Shelby (3rd car). Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions. :joy:

 

[Doc C]

I like all of your fixes on the Touareg and agree with you. You said you bought your T-reg for a power plant. Same with me. I think the V-10 is an excellent engine and it's been stated that it's one of the most advanced in the world. If the Touareg didn't have all of the small problems we've both been talking about, it's worth every penny of $62K. I was saying the LX is a far superior offroad vehicle and has a long heritage with the Land Cruiser in this area. Both of those vehicles are very capable off road, whether they are marketed as a luxury vehicle or not. IMO, better than the Touareg.
It is true that the NSX hasn't won Lemans etc. In regards to racing history however, I haven't seen many Formula 1, CART, or IRL titles for Porsche either. Honda has plenty of racing succeses to its credit. This year, they will most likely win the IRL, and have been the only form of competition in F1 to Ferrari. Granted, Ferrari has a big advantage, but Honda is doing better. Also, the NSXs have competed and faired quite well in the JGTC racing series. There they compete against the McClaren F1, Ferrari 360, Porsche 996GT3, Dodge Viper as well. So, I think the racing heritage is certainly in place for the car and well founded.
Plus, NSX is $90K and 360 is considerably more for not a lot of performance advantage. Plus, throw in the best resale value car in the last 10 years, combined with Honda reliability, $40 oil changes vs. $750 for 360, and the choice seems more obvious. The cost of a Cobra (original) or a GT2 is WAY higher than an NSX, so I don't understand the cost of ownership point you were trying to make. The Z06 is a great value and will no doubt beat the NSX in 0-60 and quarter mile times. However, on a road track, I think it would be a different story. A true sports car does all things well and not just 0-60 or quarter mile times. You can make an old Plymouth Fury a great drag car, but not a great handling car.

If the LX was built for luxury, it's odd they based it on the Land Cruiser platform, known worldwide for offroad prowess. Good to hear about the BMW you had. That should give us both hope for the Touareg. I'm sure it will be fine. Just a few growing pains.

PS: No kidding on the station control on steering wheel!! It will seek a station, but won't let you go from preset to preset?!?! Maybe there's a setting that can be changed to change that, but I don't know how to do it either. Take care!!

 

[spockcat]

PS: No kidding on the station control on steering wheel!! It will seek a station, but won't let you go from preset to preset?!?! Maybe there's a setting that can be changed to change that, but I don't know how to do it either. Take care!!

Station control on the steering isn't seeking. It is scrolling through the list of memorized stations. Not the presets but the station that were memorized when the radio was first set up. Problem is that I've never seen a way to delete them from the list (other than to rememorize them) or order them.

 

[wahoo99]

Doc C,

You are a worthy adversary. ; ) I stand busted on JGTC>figured you wouldn't call me on other series. However, the world of sportscar racing revolves around the grand prize, 24 heurs de Man. Sebring isn't far along with the 24hrs of Daytona (at least for endurance fans). GARRA has been in and out. JGTC is a little less well known.

Recall that the Corvette C5R is based on the Z06 platform. The Shelby American (SAI) is still making limited production 427's with aluminum bodies in the continuation series. CSX 3000's that have a direct lineage to the old ones. This is a hotly debated topic among SAAC members but none the less, Barrett Jackson regularly sees 140-170 for the continuation cars. Regardless, still above the 90k for the NSX. Once again, its more about the powerplant. The GT2 is street going version of the new GTSR (?). Anyway, come to Petit Le Mans come September, and we'll share some beers and take the T-reg out to the track.

cheers
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