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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
brief introduction to the nightmare...
One fateful day someone approached me and I purchased this really nice looking black touareg dirt cheap and thought it would be an easy fix. beautiful vehicle inside outwith navigation, back up cams, all leather was minty...looks like an audi q7 inside and I was impressed with its beauty ...

but was running rough. took valve covers off and it was full of thick sludge and left bank was not turning at all. Previous owners were just driving it with cheap conventional oil and engine was running on right bank only...removed engine and found left bank intake adjuster bolt loose and chain was freewheeling around the intake cam.not good! valves were bent. something major happened for that bolt to come loose.
decided to pull motor out and just rebuild this instead of buying a $2500 used motor and not knowing what I will encounter in the future. I would have put a used motor but these are very difficult to remove and requires all kinds of special tools, so I rather just rebuild this one with 98,000 miles, than to install a used motor and have to take it out again over stupid stuff.

I finished rebuilding the 2007 4.2L V8 engine code BAR


I have done many rebuilds before and this one was the hardest, tedious and labor intensive endeavors I have ever done. lots of sludge buildup and everything was completely disassembled, cleaned and serviced.

Parts were extremely expensive and hard to come by. Workshop Information is limited and generic. a simple oil filter had to be ordered because no one has it stocked locally in Florida. the BAR engine is rare around here. AXQ is common

Anyway, I hit a major road block with setting the timing chains correctly. I was so happy assembling the entire engine with all kinds of new internal bearings,parts and seals. basically ready to break in like a new motor. my last task after checking timing is to put the timing covers back on with new sealant and install this beast into my 4x4 beautiful Touareg. imagining my wife driving it with a big smile too.

after setting chains correctly and tightening all to spec, I was turning engine crank by hand clockwise and the cam shafts just lets valve springs slap around violently as I turn crank. after second rev the chains go off timing.

I am suspecting the pins inside these adjusters are slipping out of their bores. I have four barrel type cam adjusters on this engine. One on each cam shaft. they have locking pins inside. I suspect the pins are slipping out their bore holes because when I turn the crank by hand, the cams are slapping down loudly and you can hear clicking sounds inside them.

Anyway, searched forums and looks like these pins "wallow out" the holes they lock into and they recommend replacing them when servicing the chains.

Problem is that they cost $800 each and the cheapest was like $500 and ebay has a bunch of used ones for $170 but no info on what car it came out or how many miles. The photos don't show the inside disassembled.
I disassembled mine and it looks normal wear but when you turn the crank, it's a different story, they don't hold on to the cams and slip out. causing timing to go off.

so my question is....

theoretically, could I just modify these adjusters internally to stay in the locked position, assemble everything back?
The engine should still run fine I suspect? On low rpms, they stay locked. I heard if you accelerate then the solenoid activates, sending oil pressure into them and disengages the pins retarding the camshafts.

If they are permanently locked, then the oil won't do anything.

save myself a ton of money and just lock these adjusters down permanently.

Are adjusters absolutely necessary? what is their purpose really? I searched all up and down the web and no one has tried this alternative. I'm thinking it could work. Or maybe machine the surfaces of the sprocket plates to get rid of the worn area?
 

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2006 V8 Touareg AIR, nav, hid
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Most of the rebuild info on these engines will be found in the Audi Forums. Sorry, just the way it is. Same Engine as 2007 Audi Q7, modded version found in Audi RS4. Both suffer from timing defects.

Can you source this part direct from Europe? Is this the part you are looking for?

https://www.ebay.com/i/181651369898?chn=ps&dispItem=1

https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/49245/Camshaft-Adjuster-Unit-06F109088J

https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/cata...6-a6-and-c5-allroad-chain-42l-40v-p-2314.html

Trying to force the part to never move... might work or you might get a lot of computer errors that make the entire thing undriveable (limp mode). I would do this only as a last resort.


Reference Materials: (you probably already have)

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_377.pdf

http://www.vaglinks.com/vaglinks_com/Docs/SSP/VWUSA.COM_SSP_921603_4.2L_V8_FSI_Engine.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I discovered on my own that I had to prime the engine with oil. Was turning by hand for hours and no oil was reaching top end and tensioners. So I disconnected drive chains and spun the oil pump sprocket with a drill and a rubber home made adapter to oil pump sprocket. Gave it a thousand rpms and oil shot up real fast. Put chains back on and gave a few manual turns. Perfect! Tensioners are holding chains in timing.
Checked timing with lock tools and Crank pin. Everything is lining up real good.
Only question I have: is it normal for tensioners to collapse after letting engine sit overnight? Chain gets loose after I stop turning Crank by hand. And I can see a slight slack on opposite side of tensioner. But as soon as I start turning Crank by hand it immediately goes away. I want to get this right because engine is out of the car. To be more specific ... not both sides get slacked. Just one chain at a time depending what position the Crank lands. But only on one bank. If I wedge the tensioners open with plastic toothbrush handles, it is always on perfect timing. If I remove these wedges one bank seems to settle at any given time and the chain is slightly relaxed .... that scares me. I think it will rattle on start up and screw something up maybe?
 

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Yeah, I love it when the manual skips over an important step. Too bad we don't have another FSI V8 rebuilder here, but that is a pretty rare engine in North America. You are the only one, so far.

Thanks for the update.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Here's a peek of the hell and intense-tedious labors. I have hundreds of pics and a couple videos to maybe one day I find the motivation to write up a DIY
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It only has 90,000 miles and look at the sludge caked on the oil pump and that's nothing. When I first removed valve covers I said "what did I get myself into".
The only things I hated about this particular 4.2 FSI BAR engine Code rebuild was the lack of information first of all... and the complete tear down and meticulously cleaning every component of sludge down to the smallest of screws. One month of cleaning and painting parts. Even tore down the intake manifold and rebuilt it. All that work and I am stuck on getting information on the upper timing chains. I'm not putting motor in until I am absolutely sure it's normal for one chain tensioner to relax like that and leave slack when vehicle is off. Left side is tight. Right side is collapsed. Sometimes it's the other way around. As soon as I start turning by hand, they both tighten up real good. Maybe that's normal and I'm overthinking it but I just want to wait for some input because the 3.2 probably is the same and someone can chime in. I would go insane if the chain skips timing after I install everything back
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
And in this picture you can see I installed all locking tools and Crank pin... everything lines up perfectly and both tensioners are expanded with no slack on the chain. If I remove the locking tools one side starts leaning off timing typically the cam shafts on right bank passenger side. Because tensioner collapses. Sometimes the left does this and not the right side tensioner.
 

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And in this picture you can see I installed all locking tools and Crank pin... everything lines up perfectly and both tensioners are expanded with no slack on the chain. If I remove the locking tools one side starts leaning off timing typically the cam shafts on right bank passenger side. Because tensioner collapses. Sometimes the left does this and not the right side tensioner.

Love your work.
PM me with your email address and I can send you the VW BAR engine manual on this engine.


regards
Drag
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I just want to thank you publicly for emailing me that 4.2 FSI engine code BAR workshop manual. I read all timing chains procedures and it is exactly the same as the Bentley publishers and AllDatadiy.com write up with errors and all.
I just want to tell anyone working on this engine that the part that says to remove both right and left bank cam locking tools prior to final torque and 90 degree turn is WRONG in my opinion. How can you apply such force onto the chain system after removing the top locking tools and crankshaft pin is still in? I tried this method and the adjuster pins could not hold on while torquing. Chain slipped and all.
So that's WRONG. First you need to final torque everything and then you remove all locking tools and give Crank shaft two or more manual turns to see if all holes point up and Crank pin hole lines up too. You're good if all lines up. I'm going to stop worrying about the tensioners relaxing and letting the chain slack lightly. That seems to look normal from a mechanical standpoint. These tensioners work with oil pressure I open the old ones I don't have any seals inside and it is hydraulic piston with a spring inside. Little hole at the base just lets oil pressure ooze out after you stop turning.
Going to install this motor and I'll let you guys know what happens after I start it up...I have a lot of work to do putting everything back together and I already wasted two weeks waiting around for information. If you're rebuilding this engine you have to prime the oil pump, all tubing and block passages with oil pressure-takes a lot of RPMs to get that oil up into the cylinder heads. That I learned the hard way. So I'm going to stop losing sleep over it because all these 4.2's rattle on start up so I'm thinking that these chains relax when the engine is off but I was just overthinking it because when these cars are brand new there is no Rattle. I have different cam adjusters so that doesn't make any sense as long as the pins are locked internally. You would think there should be no rattling or loose but these are not sealed tensioner they relax when you stop turning ...so logically the chain will relax. Maybe with all new guides in place you will not hear a rattle?
i'll report back when I start this engine and hopefully in the future I can help someone else rebuilding this particular engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Looking good so far. Got the engine in, subframe is secured, put a new torque converter and seal, changed transmission oil and filter while under there. Can't wait to start her up soon. Just need to put the intake manifold back on and entire front carrier, axles. Lots of work!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Everything is on. Went to start it and nothing happens to activate starter. Battery is brand new and fully charged. I'm pressing brake pedal and turning key. Display goes out when trying to Crank and nothing happens not even a club click. Radio works and climate blowers activate upon request. Faults are cleared. Tested voltage at the starter and it reads 12.9 constant. Tested the signal to starter solenoid cable directly and when key is turned it jumps to 12.9 also for a short moment. So I tried clamping direct constant voltage to see if anything happens and starter is not responding. It is a major pain in the butt to remove this starter. Before I do this, am I missing something?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I can not start the engine at all. Starter is not activating at all. No clicks .... nothing. Dash lights up and everything looks normal. Put it on neutral and display asks to please put it on parking and asks to press brake pedal. I'm doing everything correctly and nothing happens just goes black in center led display upon full start position. Same results when attempting starting with the remote start button immobilizer is responding to the key in the car, pedal depressed and center goes blank when I push start engine button ... so I'm ready to call the salvage yard and give it away for free because I'm loosing my mind with this trash can. The starter worked fine before I removed engine. What are the chances that it went bad sitting on the floor of my garage.
Anyway what I really want to know is if it's possible to swap starter without removing subframe and front carrier all over again???
Most info is for Q7 and other older videos touregs that are timing belt driven
 

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It sounds like you have checked the supply wiring. Have you double checked the return wiring and the engine grounds?

If the starter relay is activating then the problem is not the ECU. If can can verify that the starter relay is working, then you need to check the supply and return wiring circuit by checking the resistance (ohms) of the entire circuit path. It is time consuming.

Pretty sure it is hard to get to the wires at the back of the starter, but that is the best place to check from. At that point, it is either the starter or the wiring to the starter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I don't know where the relay is for starter. My treg does not have C20 relay in the engine compartment fuse box. I do see the fuel pump relays and I gave up on searching for relays. I went straight to the starter and even clamped it direct with ground and positive straight from battery. No activity! Unbelievable that this starter dies on the last leg of this long journey. I ordered a new Bosch SR0820X starter overnight for $250 bucks and I'm going to get motivated to swap it out. I should have done this from the beginning and I did have a new one in hand but decided to save some money and return it because wife is getting upset at all the money I'm spending buying torque converters and seals and other preventive maintenance while I has the engine out. They don't understand. But after putting all that back now she understands why I wanted to do this in the first place! I'm perplexed at how this starter died. Maybe sitting on the floor it got rusted and frozen inside? I did pressure wash it and set it aside when I removed the engine. Put a little grease in the teeth area but man what a pain it will be to remove it again. I have the subframe on and torqued all fluids full to capacity and ready to Crank and hear my all work... sucks but has to be done!
 

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Bummer on the dead starter. Good luck on swapping it out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ok today I replaced the starter. Took the whole day. Found out that the smaller signal wire that goes to starter has a connector that resembles a speaker wire type connector recessed one inch into the solenoid end and basically all loose fitting with too much play when you snap harness on. So I used a needle nose plier and squeezed the metal tighter just a bit. So when you insert the signal wire it feels much tighter and secure. Stupid crap like that can cause you to get stranded. Both starters work fine.
Anyway the car has new starter and cranks like crazy but no start! Codes are

005161 circuit for brake vacuum pump, open circuit

000801 Engine speed sensor (g28)implausible signal

008964 control circuit for ignition coil 2, short to plus

008518 supply voltage for fuel injector group A, open circuit
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok, today I found out that the brake vacuum pump uses two 404 relays and I had my relays installed incorrectly.
Engine still didn't start.
I disconnected the evap hose at firewall that goes into manifold just in front of throttle body. Used a small empty water bottle to squirt gasoline into this vacuum hose in hopes that gasoline makes its way into the cylinders by suction.
Did a Hail Mary and turned the key.
Started right up!
Smoked like crazy but that is expected after an engine rebuild because piston rings need to sit properly.
Let it idle to operating temp.
Engine miraculously stays running and injectors seem to be operating because I hear the ticking sounds.
The code for injector group a circuit open still exists and comes back after erasing
Looked it up and there's likely a bad injector or bad wire.
Also has a bad Ignition coil because I swapped it and it came up again at another piston. It's idling slightly rough but it turns on every time.

Lesson learned with this engine is that you need to bleed the fuel system or the gasoline will never make it to the injectors
You can crank all day long ...and there's air in the lines.
So put a little bit of gasoline in that bad boy and I will turn on like the sprinkler system after a long time sitting

Going to go to the auto parts store and get an ignition coil later on tonight and I'm going to buy one fuel injector.

Otherwise the engine does crank on every time I don't hear any funny noises or chain rattles resumes to run solid with a slight misfire. Does rev up to 4000 and only but that's because it standing still and the computer won't let it rev past 4,000 rpm

It is smoking like crazy... engine oil is coming out the exhaust on both sides. It has died down some and only comes when you are accelerating it.

But I have done rebuilding on other vehicles in the past and they all smoked like crazy after initial start up ...you have to drive the car and break it in.... I know I put those valve stem seals on brand new and correctly so I can't be that.

Or maybe the PCV unit is no good. I did give it a good cleaning and looks in great condition. When I remove the valve cover gasket oil cap it has strong suction when I put my hand over the hole.

So somehow it is sucking oil into the combustion chamber but I'm not going to concern myself too much with that until I drop the vehicle and drive around the block a few times and I right now my priority is to get this rough idle taken care of and that code for So somehow it is sucking oil into the combustion chamber but I'm not going to concern myself too much with that until I drop the vehicle and drive around the block a few times and I right now my priority is to get this rough idle taken care of first and that code for injector group A circuit open injector group A circuit open...

If anybody knows what that means with more details please let me know I don't know what group A injector circuit is.

And if somehow the injectors can be tested without having to remove the intake manifold again
 

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I'm sure you already know this but whenever I need to look up a code I go to wiki.ross-tech.com, type in fault code and the possible symtoms, causes and solutions are displayed. In the case of P2146/008518 it just says check fuel injectors and check wiring which unfortunately means intake manifold off again. Looked in my Bentley Repair manual and couldn't find anything about group A fuel injectors but assume it is a designation for which bank it serves, I'll keep looking. I would assume injectors could be tested with a VCDS, hopefully someone will chime in with the procedure and you have a Ross tech VCDS cable or access to one.
 
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