Club Touareg Forum banner

1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
About two weeks ago brought my Touareg to a mechanic for timing chain, he inspected the car and told me tue valves were fine and the timing chain was OK, all i needed was the camshafts adjusters.called to see if the job was done, i was told that the timing was bad, and he had to the timing, and should be done by Friday. I was away came back from a short vacation yesterday, first thing i did was call him, to my surprise he tells me 3 valves were bend and needed replacement. Its been exactly 15 days the car in the shop and no end in sight not to mentioned my car is being held hostage. This guy was recommended by a friend of mine who did maintenance on his euro cars, at this point I'm about to punch someone in the face.. so effin pissed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
First off, what year and engine? Why did you bring it to him in the first place? Was it running fine beforehand?

If you brought it to him to have the chains replaced preventively, and now he says there’s an issue, sounds like he messed something up and is trying to cover it up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
2007 V6 3.6L, the car was towed there, i knew i need timing chains replaced, but that's about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,430 Posts
You don't tow automatics - you have them moved on a flat bed.


Why didn't it go to the workshop under it's own power?


Was it making nasty noises?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
The car was making an engine was marking rattling noises, and it felt like was losing power at times, i did not drive it at all until the day i wanted to take it to the mechanic, battery was dead, so i drove it for few miles to get the battery charged a bit, with no issues, until i was around the corner that the car completely stalled. The engine was making a noise that sounded like it was grinding stones. Towned the car on my friend recommendation which never did any major repair there mostly minor and had good experience, today its the 15th day with no end to issues. Hope this clears some things up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Soooooo much detail......
Where's this shop? What's it called? Sounds like the rest of us should avoid it at all costs!
I would definitely post his info, by tomorrow, simply, giving him the opportunity to explain when i go to the shop today, i hate going back and forth over the phone, so going to the shop shortly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,430 Posts
Okay, this is how I read this now:

After you thought there was a problem with the timing chain due to noises, you arranged to have the timing chain replaced but on the way to the workshop the noises got a whole lot worse so you stopped and had it flat-bedded to the mechanic.

After some dismantling [how much stripping down has been done is not clear to me] it appears some valves are bent so the car not only needs a new timing chain it also need the heads rebuilding.

Is this the current situation?

If the valves are bent what do the tops of the pistons look like?

Has there been contact with the valves?

What has the mechanic suggested as the next steps to repair the car?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
So many things to comment on..... where to start?

1 - So you drove a vehicle that sounded like it was grinding stones to "charge the battery"?
2 - Valves don't typically bend without impacting something (such as the pistons)
3 - If it was losing power "at times", it couldn't have been the timing chain or bent valves unless they would magically fix themselves "at other times"
4 - Were you throwing codes when this intermittent power loss was happening?
5 - Did you scan\retrieve any codes?

Can you clarify the "with no issues" statement? So you were driving it to charge the battery, and there was
- no rattling noise (front the timing chain that needed replacing)
- no "grinding stones noise"
- no "power loss"
....... or all those were existing? (or some combination of)

I'm so confused!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Okay, this is how I read this now:

After you thought there was a problem with the timing chain due to noises, you arranged to have the timing chain replaced but on the way to the workshop the noises got a whole lot worse so you stopped and had it flat-bedded to the mechanic.
Correct.

After some dismantling [how much stripping down has been done is not clear to me] it appears some valves are bent so the car not only needs a new timing chain it also need the heads rebuilding.

Is this the current situation?
According to him this is where we are right now.

If the valves are bent what do the tops of the pistons look like?

He said he will show me when i get to the shop, I'll share the pictures

Has there been contact with the valves?
Not sure will found out when i get there, i was too upset to have a longer phone conversantion with him

What has the mechanic suggested as the next steps to repair the car?
Replace the damaged valves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So many things to comment on..... where to start?

1 - So you drove a vehicle that sounded like it was grinding stones to "charge the battery"?
When i drove the car at that time to recharge the battery, the car was making some knocking noises, and that's about it.
2 - Valves don't typically bend without impacting something (such as the pistons)
Possible
3 - If it was losing power "at times", it couldn't have been the timing chain or bent valves unless they would magically fix themselves "at other times"
Lol, the bent valve happened when the chain snapped- again according to him.
4 - Were you throwing codes when this intermittent power loss was happening?
Yes CEL was on and stability control icon was showing.
5 - Did you scan\retrieve any codes?
Don't have a scanner or have the codes, i could get him the code, mech mentioned that the code was because of faulty camshafts.

Can you clarify the "with no issues" statement? So you were driving it to charge the battery, and there was
- no rattling noise (front the timing chain that needed replacing.
Its was some knocking noise, but nothing compared to the ones after I drove the car for 10 mins
- no "grinding stones noise"
NO
- no "power loss"
Yes, car felt it lost power randomly, and it would be driving normal the next day. Granted i stopped driving the car once the powerl loss experience, until the day i had to take it to the shop.
....... or all those were existing? (or some combination of)
Not all, definitely NOT the grinding stone noise, and this point car stopped driving, which happen at the last 10 minutes of me driving it to charge the battery.

I'm so confused!
Hope this cleared things up a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,523 Posts
Edit to note the picture of the loose chain and the lower tensioner. I don't like this at all. The engine lost timing at this point and you may or may not have damage to the valves.

The engine was making a noise that sounded like it was grinding stones.
That sound is always bad. It is the sound of something expensive being ground up. In this case, it was probably the valves.

Replacing the valves is a very long and expensive job. There is no way to know if the valves are damaged, for sure, until you take the top of the engine off.

The camshaft adjusters are the common fail part. The reason you don't keep driving it after it starts making noise is if the chain jumps timing, you can damage the valves.

The broke valve pieces can damage other engine parts. Even if it is only the valve, lots of loose pieces of metal are now in the engine.

Unless the mechanic gets lucky and finds all the broken pieces of metal in the top of the engine, the next step is to remove the oil pan and search and remove all the broke pieces of metal in the bottom.

You are upset at the time and cost, which is understandable. Once you realize what this repair takes, you will realize that this is never going to be a fast fix. It is a long, slow, and complicated repair.

The only fast fix is to sell the vehicle for scrap and walk away.

This is why it is recommended to always tow the vehicle if there is a timing issue. Probably only one or two out of a hundred will blow up.

We end up with 98 people who chuckle they saved the cost of a tow and that the advice was crap. We also end up with two people who are furious that they now need a very long and expensive engine rebuild.

I wish I had some good news for you, but I don't. You rolled the dice and took a chance driving it. Sadly, Lady luck had some grudge to settle and chose to settle up with you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Edit to note the picture of the loose chain and the lower tensioner. I don't like this at all. The engine lost timing at this point and you may or may not have damage to the valves.

The engine was making a noise that sounded like it was grinding stones.
That sound is always bad. It is the sound of something expensive being ground up. In this case, it was probably the valves.

Replacing the valves is a very long and expensive job. There is no way to know if the valves are damaged, for sure, until you take the top of the engine off.

The camshaft adjusters are the common fail part. The reason you don't keep driving it after it starts making noise is if the chain jumps timing, you can damage the valves.

The broke valve pieces can damage other engine parts. Even if it is only the valve, lots of loose pieces of metal are now in the engine.

Unless the mechanic gets lucky and finds all the broken pieces of metal in the top of the engine, the next step is to remove the oil pan and search and remove all the broke pieces of metal in the bottom.

You are upset at the time and cost, which is understandable. Once you realize what this repair takes, you will realize that this is never going to be a fast fix. It is a long, slow, and complicated repair.

The only fast fix is to sell the vehicle for scrap and walk away.

This is why it is recommended to always tow the vehicle if there is a timing issue. Probably only one or two out of a hundred will blow up.

We end up with 98 people who chuckle they saved the cost of a tow and that the advice was crap. We also end up with two people who are furious that they now need a very long and expensive engine rebuild.

I wish I had some good news for you, but I don't. You rolled the dice and took a chance driving it. Sadly, Lady luck had some grudge to settle and chose to settle up with you.
I appreciate the input, good or bad news, i can't change it at this point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,523 Posts
Well, keep us updated. We appreciate the updates even if all we can offer at this point is a bit of sympathy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I guess the reason i got upset the most is that i told him to make sure that the valve and everything else was OK before he did any type of work, and he never calls with his findings, inhave to always call him, and everytime i call him i get one bad news after another.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
There's more to the story here. It's a flurry of info and comments. The grinding sound as stated comes across as either severe timing chain guide issues and/or valves contacting pistons. Both are likely.


Sounds somewhat typical in some regards with regards to timing chain issues. Once bad enough the ECU will set cam/crank sync and misfire codes. Engine loses power and sounds terrible. Typical/common. There's a substantial risk the repair will be compromised. Excessive engine wear is also likely and common. Chains live and die on the oil supply. The debris that is created as they wear and shred the pads and metal guides is not what one wants in their engine (oil pump, bearings, VVT's also can become damaged and/or simply wear at an extreme rate).





Knee jerk blaming the mechanic for possibly finding additional problems as he digs into an unknown situation is like blaming a surgeon for finding more problems when they are "in". However like any profession there's5-10% who are not entirely honest...mechanic referrals are always the best to head that issue up. Give him/them a chance to explain and show what's going on. Mechanics are people (uh, like you) who have committed a huge investment to the profession with the intent of doing quality work and building a positive reputation over a long career. Don't be the Irate Customer unless it's 110% justified. An unhappy mechanic is not who you want working on your car.....certainly don't resort to unethical tactics to "teach your mechanic" a thing or two- or to bully them into paying for your mistake. Be honest and expect it in return.



Even if he accidentally let the cams roll over while servicing the chain it's unlikely valves will bend- normally a cam holder tool is used to prevent this. There is the off-chance he ran the engine to "see what it sounds like" and it decided to have a bad day on his turf, bending valves. It's a bummer but happens. Is it now their fault in entirety? Ponder that one for a moment from both sides of the fence.



If the tech did fully qualify the engine prior to running it, was is via a compression, leakdown test and/or using a boroscope for visual inspections? Perhaps it was an initial mechanics guess, based on prior experience. In an attempt to be positive and to help save the customer on diagnostic time. It happens. Ask about what steps were taken- and what you agreed to or asked for.



Running/driving the vehicle may have sent it over the edge in terms of creating further damage. Owner needs to take responsibility as well.



When in doubt don't run an noisy or poor sounding engine a second longer than absolutely necessary. Get it towed to avoid further damage which may just help save substantial repair costs.


Interested to see how this story pans out....
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
About this Discussion
57 Replies
8 Participants
nycman
Club Touareg Forum
We’re the online community for Volkswagen Touareg owners to share knowledge about their VW Touareg Sport Utility Vehicles and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top