[schubie]

US V6 TDI owners, are you adding anything to your fill-ups to improve the lubricity of our low-sulfer diesel?

A family friend with a Silverado Duramax (and longtime driver of 3/4 ton & larger diesel trucks) says it's a good idea to improve longevity. It looks like he's mixing a qt of 5w-30 non-detergent oil with his fuel on each fill-up.

I'm somewhat skeptical, in part because he's driving a 2002 powerplant that was designed for the high-sulfer swill we used to have. And V6 TDIs have been running for years in Europe on fuels similar (but not as low sulfer?) to our current flavor, presumably without additives.

I'm not going to be behind the wheel of one before Nov., and don't have a manual to browse. I've anticipated having to use a cold-weather additive to prevent gelling in case a supplier screws up. What's your take on the lubricity issue? What about you V10 'ers?

Thanks--Chris

 

[Rossco]

Re Lubricity of Low Sulphur Diesel

Hi Schubie,
No need to worry about reducing sulphur levels of fuel. In Australia this has been the norm for quite a few years. I have included below a section of information sheet from BP here in Australia. Trust it helps you with this matter.
Cheers, Rossco.

Impact on Lubricity ​

Sulphur compounds in diesel fuel act as natural lubricants for fuel system components such as fuel pumps and injectors. Removing sulphur reduces the natural lubricity of the fuel. To ensure that this does not cause problems, lubricity is measured by additional testing during the manufacturing process. If lubricity does not meet accepted international standards then it is treated with an additive at the refinery. BP Low Sulphur Diesel fuel is tested to ensure that it always meets recognised international and manufacturers standards for diesel fuel lubricity as measured by the ASTM D 6079 High Frequency Reciprocating Rig.

 

[Rossco]

Hi again Schubie,
I am also awaiting delivery of new v6 TDI. Ordered it three weeks ago and expect delivery end November. Looking forward to seeing your comments when delivery happens. I also note in the USA your new stock now is 2010. Our stock remains 2009 until 31st December. So am I getting a 2009 or 2010????

Cheers, Rossco
_________________________________
2009 Touareg V6 TDI
Air Suspension
Bi Xenons
Fun Times...

 

[rineman1]

I have a 09 TDI (1100 miles) and I add nothing to the tank (freezing temps not an issue in SoCal). I read the manual and it states nothing about any additive needed. The only thing that im having trouble finding is AdBlue. I have not checked with the dealer but i have checked the internet and cant find a bottle to keep on hand. You will love your new TDI. My only complaint so far is that its NOT prewired for a brake controller needed for towing. I have been avg about 18mpg city.

 

[schubie]

Thanks, Rossco for the fuel info. I wouldn't expect the refiners to just leave users hanging after removing the sulfer. But I could see how some earlier model engines might not like the replacements. Ethanol in place of MTBE as a US gas additive comes to mind; it's reaked havoc on some boats.

With all the hand wringing we've been doing over here about getting the V6 TDI with air susp., it'll almost be anti-climactic when it arrives (well maybe not quite). Looking forward to learning what it can (and can't) do from everyone.

Regards--Chris

 

[schubie]

I have a 09 TDI (1100 miles) and I add nothing to the tank (freezing temps not an issue in SoCal). I read the manual and it states nothing about any additive needed. The only thing that im having trouble finding is AdBlue. I have not checked with the dealer but i have checked the internet and cant find a bottle to keep on hand. You will love your new TDI. My only complaint so far is that its NOT prewired for a brake controller needed for towing. I have been avg about 18mpg city.

I thought I read somewhere that the vehicle is supposed to come with a small, emergency-use bottle. Is there anything tucked away by the spare?

I'm planning to tow, but my needs don't require the controller (I only need the flat adaptor). But my dealer pointed out to me the potential need for this. It sounds like a common issue. Nice to see your city driving has bested the EPA estimate.

 

[nltomba]

Your friend with the duramax is litterally just blowing smoke with adding oil to his diesel. That is nuts.
Europe has had low sufur for a long time and your VW diesel comes from over there remember?
90% of diesels in the US is from the high sulfur days and those diesels are not going to break down from that

 

[schubie]

Yeah, that's what I figured. But there appear to be a few 'believers' around here. (nickm, you still using it w/ your Jetta TDI?) Here are a couple of CT threads I found after the fact.

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f67/2-stoke-in-diesel-19842.html?highlight=lubricity
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f43/how-many-mpg-outa-your-v10-tdi-19807.html?highlight=lubricity

And here's an interesting off-site review of lubricity additives I came across. If nothing else, it lists some anti-gel additives that come with a lubricity benefit.

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place

--Chris

 

[stgo2019]

You should check out Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community.
A little Bio Diesel(BD), I believe 2% BD, will make up the difference between ULSD and the old stuff. VW is good with the use of 5% BD in the new TDI engines.
If you have a BD pump near you look for the B2 or B5 pump.
I used B100 in my 2002 TDI for years and never had any problems.

Also, many people get Bio Diesel and Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) confused. BD is from pure Soy (in the US) stock. It's not the stuff from deep fryers in your local restaurant (WVO). You won't get that french fry smell from BD.

 

[schubie]

A little Bio Diesel(BD), I believe 2% BD, will make up the difference between ULSD and the old stuff. VW is good with the use of 5% BD in the new TDI engines.
If you have a BD pump near you look for the B2 or B5 pump.

I saw something similar about the lubricity benefits of BD at Diesel Place. Will go for it if I have a choice. Thanks--Chris

 

[xvwtditreg]

Is there an official VW block heater for these engines? I live in Chicago where it does get cold.

 

[nltomba]

Is there an official VW block heater for these engines? I live in Chicago where it does get cold.

Your diesel will start with -20F

 

[schubie]

UPDATE

For those who don't know, the lubricity requirements of our new ULSD aren't as stringent as those in Europe or Canada (and perhaps elsewhere). What's less clear is whether this will have any long-term affect on the reliability of diesel-lubricated components (pump, injectors, etc.).

As some have pointed out, the addition of just 2% biodiesel (B2 fuel) provides lubricity that exceeds OEM and legacy fuel specs. The B2 and B5 blends warranteed for use in the Treg aren't readily available in my area, though. Until they are, I'm planning a workaround that might be of interest to others.

There is at least one alt. fuel station nearby that sells B100. This fuel is not currently recommended for use in the Treg. However, it can easily be added to fill-ups of non-biodiesel at a dilution to achieve B2. Adding 2 qts during fill-up of a nearly empty tank provides a blend of about 50:1 (2% or B2).

Once every few months, I envision filling a 5-gal fuel container with B100. From this, I'll keep a small fuel jug topped-off with 2 qts of B100 available for refills. Biodiesel is supposed to be used within 6 months. My 300+ miles/week of ~60/40 driving on highways/secondary roads should use this in roughly 3 months. Depending on weather and fuel consumption, an anti-gel additive also could be added (once) to the 5 gals of B100 to address any cold-point issues.

Hope this helps--Chris

 

[v10treg]

I have an 04 v10. I use a half quart of 2stroke tcw3 oil from Walmart. It's about $3.99cad a quart. Have been doing so for the last 40,000kms, and no problems. It doesn't really improve your fuel economy... It makes the exhaust a little stinkier, but to me, it's like insurance in a bottle. There was a super long thread on the cummins forum at: First Time w/2stroke Oil - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum The way I see it, 2stroke oil is meant to burn anyways, so there is no harm done with leaving residue. Such as burning ATF or WEO.

If you have the time to read through it, there are links to the ULSD lubricity standards in North America, and studies conducted by BOSCH etc... They tested different diesel additives, and found that virtually all diesel additives are simply mixed with alchohols and thinners, hence, making the dieself fuel thinner. It was concluded that 2pct bio diesel provides the best lubricity, and then 2 stroke oil is the next cheapest and economical alternative.

Though, read with caution, 2 stroke hasn't been recommended for use with diesel engines equipped with DPF's, as it may clog the membrane pre-maturely.

The thread is a real good read, though, kind of repetative. But very informative.

 

[schubie]

Yeah, that seems to be the approach taken by a good number of folks. As you said, it's cheap insurance, as long as it doesn't mess with the DPF. I've seen some of the threads about ULSD wear tests, lubricity additives, etc. That's why I've decided to go with B2/B5 blends from day one. They're good for the engine, use an additive (B100) which is a fuel in its own right, and help create a market for renewable fuels. Too bad I have to manually blend where I live because there are no local retailers.

 

[medic92]

I have used Stanydyne in my TDI Jetta for 6 years. That is what I plan on using in the TDI Touareg when it arrives. You can get a case of it or a jarge container from TDIParts.com.

 

[TommyBoyee]

Not sure about the prices of biodiesel in your neck of the woods but adding 2% or 50 : 1 biodiesel vs 2%-50:1 two stroke oil would see like the biodiesel is cheaper. Here it is approx. the same price as regular diesel while a quality two stroke mix is much more.

Although I wouldn't pretend to know the effects that the two stroke oil would have on the exhaust system I wouldn't use it for fear of voiding warranty if it was determined that a non approved additive was used. Given VWs history I would think they'd use any reason possible to keep from repairing a warranty issue already. Why give them more ammo.

 

[v10treg]

If I were able to get Biodiesel here in Alberta, let alone, Calgary, I definately would prefer to use bio, only for the benefits of lubricity. Though, I am not a supporter of "growing" our fuel, then burning it. Everyone that I know that uses 2 stroke oil, only buy it from Walmart, as it is the cheapest, and as long as it is rated TCW3- Low Ash. Haven't had any problems with my injection system yet, but then again, my other tdi buddies that don't use anything, haven't had any problems either.

As for Warranty, I've had a huge PITA oil leak from my v10 for awhile, the engine has been out 3 times at the dealer... Anyways, the problem has been fixed finally, and I think I have the parts, turbos of a 2008 v10 bolted to my 2004 now... But whenever I brought the touareg to the dealer, I always had 2 stroke mixed in with my fuel, and they never said anything (the evidence is the blue coloured fuel filters, and fuel). FYI: Whenever they drop the engine, they replace fuel filters, oil filter, do oil change, top-up coolant, atf, brake fluid, AC Refrigerant, etc.... It's like getting the full meal-deal done (under warranty).

I guess 2 stroke mixed in your fuel is your own decision. I only use 1/2 quart per tank, so it is an extra $2 per fillup. I actually know using 2 stroke will actually benefit my engine, because it is an oil, that is meant to be burnt and lubricate the injection and upper cylinder. Not some "diesel treatment" that is made from thinners and solevents that actually make you lose lubricity in your fuel. - Though, they do have a place in my engine, once in awhile, I use Howes Diesel Treat to clean injectors, and for water dispersment. - Especially in the winter, where we can see -33c.

It's up to you, btw: Who else has tried or is using 2 stroke oil?

 

[TommyBoyee]

Im in Toronto so there are a few stations that carry it. You would think that Alberta would have it too. However if the two stroke oil works and doesn't harm the exhaust system then I say go for it. It would be interesting to test what the difference in emmisions would be and whether the AdBlue system is actually removing the added gases or allowing them to pass through.

Things that make you go hmmm!! :0

I've been using biodiesel in my Transporter as much as possible and like it. Theres a bit less power and it can hardley get out of its own way sometimes but the engine runs so much smoother. Maybe I'll put some two stroke oil in it when I dont have the opportunity to get to the bio station.

Cheers, to a great thread

 

[v10treg]

the 2 stroke oil seems to do it's job... Though, the effects aren't measurable unless you review the HFRR friction test posted on the Cummins Forum @ First Time w/2stroke Oil - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

To Date, it is recommended not to use 2 stroke oil with DPF equipped diesels