[casioqv]

I've owned my post-dieselgate fix '09 V6 TDI Touareg now for over three years, and am nearing the end of the emissions warranty from VW. Consistently during the three years of ownership, about twice a year it has needed $2000-4000 worth of major work, requiring weeks in the shop, almost always on complex emissions related equipment that can only really be done by a VW dealer. Thus far I have had the turbo, both EGR coolers, the entire adblue system including pumps and tanks, NOX sensors, and many other parts replaced- all completely free and under warranty, with a free loaner car each time. The car is currently back in the shop getting every single part in the adblue system replaced for a second time! It seems like post-fix, these parts are just under excess stress, and can't continue working for long.

I love this car- it drives great both on road and offroad, but it seems just too complex and unreliable. I am not sure that it's worth paying up to the full value of the car annually to keep it on the road if it continues to need as much work as it has- the out of pocket repair costs would likely exceed the payments on a new car! Plus, I like to do long road trips and the most common symptom is the sudden appearance of the low adblue countdown- often at a small number of miles rather than the 1000 warning it's supposed to give, causing a 'self destruct' refusal to start far from the possibility of help.

Has anybody had experience owning one of these without the warranty? How is it possible?

I live in an urban area of California that requires biennial emissions inspections, so doing any kind of emissions delete is a complete non-starter.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

It's not feasible in Cali.... either move or get something else.

 

[casioqv]

It's not feasible in Cali.... either move or get something else.

Hmmm... I guess your answer is obvious but not what I want to hear. I don't actually see anything new I would want more than the Touareg.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

The problem is, it doesn't sound like you do your own diagnostic or wrenching, so stuff will continue to bust (eventually) on something of that age and complexity.... since you rely on dealer repairs, you've seen what it will cost.

You didn't list what kind of mileage you have. Sounds like you've basically had the whole emissions system replaced by now, so I'd expect another 100k or so before you start having to replace those again....

If it was me, I'd buy VCDS and learn how to use it. Then, I'd lean on this community and do as much of my own fixing as possible. This will minimize the costs incurred.

 

[buckwheat]

Seems suspicious/coincidental to me that every single component of the AdBlue system is bad. Twice. I would question why the DEF tank, heater, injection nozzle, level sensor, and NOx sensor all mangaged to fail at the same time. It makes me question the aptitude of the technician (or at least their familiarity with they emissions system).

As a data point, my 2016 has around 130,000 miles; it is fully emissions-intact and has the emission update. It has not been inside a dealer in over 75,000 miles. I've never had a DEF issue, NOx sensor issue, turbo issue, or EGR issue. In fact, the only issue I've really had with the car is repeated failure of the adaptive cruise control

 

[Touareg-V10-TDI]

I bet all those components did not fail altogether. Volkswagen likes to replace all instead of spending time diagnosing every part of it, risking the customer to come back to the shop in few days, so they usually replace it all.
I come from an era when if your alternator gives up, you'd rebuild it at home and pop it back in. Now a days, mechanics seem to replace parts nothing else.
It is just my 2 cents.

 

[casioqv]

The problem is, it doesn't sound like you do your own diagnostic or wrenching, so stuff will continue to bust (eventually) on something of that age and complexity.... since you rely on dealer repairs, you've seen what it will cost.

I actually am an ex-professional mechanic, and have VCDS, etc. but these parts are still expensive, dealer only, and time consuming to replace. I'm a single dad and it's hard to find time to work on a vehicle and watch my son at the same time. My vehicle has about 145k miles.

Seems suspicious/coincidental to me that every single component of the AdBlue system is bad. Twice. I would question why the DEF tank, heater, injection nozzle, level sensor, and NOx sensor all mangaged to fail at the same time. It makes me question the aptitude of the technician (or at least their familiarity with they emissions system).

I was exaggerating a bit, I don't have the actual list of parts replaced each time in front of me right now... but they don't seem to understand the system well, and probably do order more parts than necessary each time. The techs told me they hate, and don't understand this car well. In several instances, I had to diagnose the problem for them because they replaced thousands and thousands of dollars worth of incorrect parts and couldn't fix the problem, so I did get a lot of free parts out of this.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

I actually am an ex-professional mechanic, and have VCDS, etc. but these parts are still expensive, dealer only, and time consuming to replace. I'm a single dad and it's hard to find time to work on a vehicle and watch my son at the same time. My vehicle has about 145k miles.

Based on all that, I'd keep it.
You're better off buying a cheap beater as a backup if you start having to fix stuff that takes a long time... most failures will just annoy you with codes and warning, but still give you plenty of time to find parts and time to replace a sensor or component.

If you think parts are expensive down there, you should see what we pay up here.

 

[casioqv]

Just for fun I priced out the parts they used when my car was there last month for a new turbo on parts.vw.com, it came out to a total of $7,457.10- parts cost alone! I do have a second car but it's an old Porsche so not exactly more reliable or cheaper to maintain than the Touareg.

 

[Touareg-V10-TDI]

😱😱😱😱$7500 for a turbo???? I'd get one from online sources or maybe a junk yard or the classifieds in here before I pay any of that for sure.

I see a new one here for $790 I also see used ones on ebay for $250

ID PARTS TURBOCHARGER

 

[casioqv]

Turbo was only $1900, most of the cost was just little hoses, gaskets, nuts, etc. I'm sure the job can be done cheaper. Interestingly, the most expensive single part was "Connector pipe. Connector tube. Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Tube. Part Number: 059131521K" at $2,574.47, more than the turbo itself.

Honestly, I'm not even sure the turbo was even bad... the car drove fine but there was a small exhaust smell in the cabin, so something was leaking or cracked. They wouldn't tell me, or didn't know exactly what had failed.

Perhaps this is just a story of how incompetent the dealers are. I imagine whatever was leaking could have been brazed or welded up, and reinstalled by reusing the gaskets for almost no cost.... Most of the bolts, gaskets, etc. on these cars are very high quality and don't actually need replacement.

 

[Brendanm]

Most of that just sounds like your dealer has no idea at all

 

[ValveCoverGasket]

Interestingly, the most expensive single part was "Connector pipe. Connector tube. Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Tube. Part Number: 059131521K" at $2,574.47, more than the turbo itself.

ouch

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/pipe/059131521k/

even at EC$ the oem part is $1000 less

yeah this sounds like a story primarily about dealer dumb-fckery.
either way, sorry to hear its potentially soured you on keeping the touareg

 

[casioqv]

I don't understand why that little pipe could possibly cost this much. Was this single pipe really ~5% of the cost of VW making this car when new? GM sells complete V8 crate engines for less than VW charges for this tiny pipe!

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Why aren't you drivint a GM?

 

[casioqv]

Why aren't you drivint a GM?

Come on, obviously GMs are cheap crap, but I don't think this pipe actually costs more to manufacture than an entire GM engine, nor do I think the pipe was "worn out" somehow on my engine. It was probably just full of carbon and the tech didn't feel like scraping it out when VW would pay for a new one.

Really though, before I had the Touareg I had a lot of diesel Volvos with the D24 6 cylinder VW diesel engine. Most of the parts for that are either no longer made, or astronomically expensive. Yet the community has found a way to keep them on the road for really cheap. I think you are right that we have a creative and supportive community here, and we can find affordable solutions to the problems that these cars have when VW will no longer pay for it. The only thing that bothers me is that these are a heck of a lot more complex than those 80s VW engines.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Let's be real for a sec.
You're whining about costs that you could've incurred, and about what parts that haven't broken might cost if and when they do if you go buy them at the dealer or whatever.

If you're worried about that EGR pipe, just get a couple of flanges CNC laser cut and buy a flex section and walk into any weld shop and have them slap one together for you. I'm sure it won't cost you anywhere near that.

You got lots of part and lots of replacement for no cost and potentially have another 100k+ of use before they bust again. By that time, you won't even be allowed to own an ICE in your state, so you'll have bigger problems and your kid will be all grown up and you'll have time to wrench.

 

[casioqv]

Indeed, that's a useful perspective. It's a nice car where most of the wear parts have been replaced for free, and by the time it dies I can probably pick up an old Rivian for $5k on Craigslist.

 

[TommiT]

Waiting for the Rivian to come to the UK.

In the meantime it's an Ineos Grenadier with a straight 6 BMW diesel.

 

[rgh0]

When your trying to compare the cost of keeping an older out of warranty car to a newer car with a warranty the major items to consider are depreciation and finance cost versus maintenance cost per year.

The extra depreciation and finance costs of a newer vehicle with a 5 year warranty comparable to an older Treg with no warranty is going to be around $5000 to $10,000 per year over the 5 year warranty period. That pays for a lot of annual maintenance on the older Treg especially if you can do your own work mainly ! Even with vehicles under warranty with free servicing you are going to be paying for wear items such are tyres and brakes.

The nominal warranty repair costs quoted by dealers needs to be taken with a grain of salt as dealers interests are to get people to buy new cars or to just do excessive work as they just replace stuff rather than diagnose it properly as they know they can get the labour money from VW and the parts for free from VW. The dealer "costs" are also based on excessive new OEM part costs from the car manufacturer providing the warranty compared to OEM or quality alternatives from after market suppliers

The hassle of having an older car off the road for maintenance needs to be factored in but getting a loaner from whoever is doing the maintenance or renting a car when needed is not going to change the cost equation much. Sourcing parts for older T1 / T2 tregs may become an issue at some point but enough have been made and still in service for parts to be available for the next 5 years though you may be in the hands of Lithuanian wreckers for some components

I plan on keeping my 10 year old V8 TDI for the next 10 years based on this sort of analysis