Lets talk t3 4xmotion reto
1 - 20 of 86 Posts
Joined
·
20,262 Posts
Gordon Norah, you do like setting yourself some challenges!
My guess is there's no point to trying to retro original 4x motion in. You already have the 4motion portion of it, so the only parts to change are the differentials. If you could find lockable differentials for the center and/or rear, you'd end up with the same thing.
Doesn't the ROW get low range as an option, too? That would most likely involve replacing the transfer case (as the OP mentioned) and replacing the rear diff.
And of course all the associated wiring and modules.
Might be easier (and cheaper!) to import an overseas model. :- /
And of course all the associated wiring and modules.
Might be easier (and cheaper!) to import an overseas model. :- /
Joined
·
558 Posts
correct row t3s have optional 4xmotion with low tcase....i dont think importing one is something id consider, just playing with ideas...am i wrong in assuming that lock center is built in the 4x tcase? Which would mean no diff swaps unless i wanted rear lock.
Just wanted to see if someone is fluent in this and could tell me if its reasonably possible...changing the tcase and electrical isnt that hard more difficult would be how much needs to be changed possibly ecu as well to communicate with the new cluster...not to sure.
A guy can dream, problem is doesnt seem anyone is up for modding t3s.
Just wanted to see if someone is fluent in this and could tell me if its reasonably possible...changing the tcase and electrical isnt that hard more difficult would be how much needs to be changed possibly ecu as well to communicate with the new cluster...not to sure.
A guy can dream, problem is doesnt seem anyone is up for modding t3s.
My guess is the harness/etc is not present to connect the lockers, and I'm guessing the stock lockers are electronically locked. The case is probably roughly the same, except possibly with a hole for wiring. That's why I say all you really need is an electronic locking diff that fits in the two cases. I don't think anyone has really investigated it.
If you want it to integrate into the cluster/etc, that's a whole different set of problems. But if you can find an electronically or mechanically locking diff that fits the case/gearing/etc, you can simply wire a control up to one of the blank plates in the console and get what you want out of it.
I'd imagine the rear diff would be the most bang for the buck if you wanted to start with one - so if you could get a rear diff and get good measurements/etc, you could probably talk to Eaton or someone similar about an electronically lockable diff that matches the parameters. I don't know who makes the VW diffs, I know Haldex is involved in some, but not sure if they do all of them.
If you want it to integrate into the cluster/etc, that's a whole different set of problems. But if you can find an electronically or mechanically locking diff that fits the case/gearing/etc, you can simply wire a control up to one of the blank plates in the console and get what you want out of it.
I'd imagine the rear diff would be the most bang for the buck if you wanted to start with one - so if you could get a rear diff and get good measurements/etc, you could probably talk to Eaton or someone similar about an electronically lockable diff that matches the parameters. I don't know who makes the VW diffs, I know Haldex is involved in some, but not sure if they do all of them.
Joined
·
24 Posts
Holy crap I was just thinking when I finally get my hands on my wife's 2016 TDI how can I swap in my 04 4xMotion transfer case. I have some time to figure this out and she would kill me if I started tinkering with her TDI at random. I would already have all the parts. I got the 04 cheap thanks to VWs little emissions issue. If you are looking to further your curiosity buying a t1 right now is a perfect time as the price for one is about $6k that's what I got mine for and a friend got an 05 for $6200. Both of which had just passed 100k miles. On a side note the only person to think I was crazy to want a Touareg/cayenne (I looked at both) was a service writer at Porsche. She thought a F150 was a really good choice for an off-road vehicle. That's what the 04 is for and what the 2016 will eventually become if your thought pans out.
On my T2, the locking mechanism on the transfer case is built into the case itself. According to the switch and the electronics, the center diff (in the t-case) has to be locked first and THEN you can lock the rear diff. Which makes sense. It would be very rare that you would want the rear locked and NOT have the t-case diff to be locked in low range.
In my VCDS autoscan, I have a separate module for my differential locks and I recall seeing a module for the transfer case, too. But maybe that is integrated into another module.
The Australians seem to like modding their later model Touaregs. Might want to ask in that forum, too.
Hm, not really true re: center diff.
Unless there's been some mix-up, the center diff in the T3 is a torque biasing differential. The F&R being open, there's a very good reason you'd want to potentially lock the rear. Torque biasing requires torque potential on one side to transfer any to the other.
So take the scenario of a ditch, if you fully lift one front and one rear tire into the air, you can't make any torque to either tire on the ground. You're stuck, because you have an open diff on each end, and a free spinning wheel on that open diff.
If you can lock the rear, you will make torque at the rear wheel that's on the ground. You'll still spin the free wheel in the front, but you at least have potential for movement in the rear.
There's a whole mix of differential setups for different scenarios, honestly just a limited slip unit in the rear would prevent a lot of common ones.
Unless there's been some mix-up, the center diff in the T3 is a torque biasing differential. The F&R being open, there's a very good reason you'd want to potentially lock the rear. Torque biasing requires torque potential on one side to transfer any to the other.
So take the scenario of a ditch, if you fully lift one front and one rear tire into the air, you can't make any torque to either tire on the ground. You're stuck, because you have an open diff on each end, and a free spinning wheel on that open diff.
If you can lock the rear, you will make torque at the rear wheel that's on the ground. You'll still spin the free wheel in the front, but you at least have potential for movement in the rear.
There's a whole mix of differential setups for different scenarios, honestly just a limited slip unit in the rear would prevent a lot of common ones.
Joined
·
24 Posts
Which with the 4xMotion you have 50%power locked to the rear with a locked rear of the swap works.
Joined
·
3,794 Posts
As the 4Motion is equipped with Torsen Diffs (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen) and. The 4XMotion are open spool, you will need to replace the following items, as per the VW Parts listings.
Front & Rear differentials
Front and Rear prop shafts
Transfer case
Gearbox
Gearbox Controller
ABS module
ESP Module ( part of ABS)
Transmission wiring harness
ABS wiring harness
Gearbox wiring harness
And any number of assorted small items..
Good luck!
Stuart...
Front & Rear differentials
Front and Rear prop shafts
Transfer case
Gearbox
Gearbox Controller
ABS module
ESP Module ( part of ABS)
Transmission wiring harness
ABS wiring harness
Gearbox wiring harness
And any number of assorted small items..
Good luck!
Stuart...
Joined
·
558 Posts
not entirely true...the 4motion t3 has edl (electronic diff lock)..it works ive tried it. However id still rather 4x retro or electric locker
thanks stuart are we sure this is t3 stuff? just wasnt sure seeing row gets either or i didnt think they would be totally different
I'm factoring EDL in here. EDL is just wheel braking, it doesn't actually lock any of the differentials. Instead, the wheel braking can provide torque for the torque biasing. So the situation I described where you have a front and rear off, the center is biasing 0 and 0 because of open front and rear. If it provides braking force to the front open wheel, you'll still spin away the torque at the rear open wheel. If you have any sort of slip limiter in the rear, that may give you enough force to get out. With an open diff, it'll just spin away.
Joined
·
9,696 Posts
Your scenario described is easily done with not using any locks at all. I have been in that situation multiple times in both of my Tregs and drove right out of it. I have yet to find a need for the center lock at all. I have been on some pretty knarly stuff and Aircooled can vouch for it for he was there with me doing the same thing in his Touareg. They are way more capable then most will ever know. I have gone places in my Treg most would cringe when they saw it. I feel most who have the first gen really need to take them out and find out what they can really do off road. You have a whole new respect for them after you see what they are capable of off road. I still have my doubts about the T3's we get here since they don't have the low range and are more softly sprung then the previous gen models. I could be very wrong about the T3, but I am not willing to take someone with one places I have been in mine. Just my opinion and it may not be a valid one, but I stand by it.
Joined
·
558 Posts
ive done a few mild stuff...NOTHING like ut tho thats real stuff...i have had to use the edl and it works surprisingly well...Ive seen a few videos on youtube that show t3s doing well, but i do agree it needs more height without air thats for sure.
Im talking with a company that can make 2 inch taller springs at the oem spring rate....What do you guys think? would this be safe or am i asking for trouble with stuff doing that?
Im talking with a company that can make 2 inch taller springs at the oem spring rate....What do you guys think? would this be safe or am i asking for trouble with stuff doing that?
You're going to have the suspension operating too far along the droop side of extension all the time if you use springs to raise it. You would want to use spacers instead most likely so that you still have suspension travel in the droop side of things and set the chassis 1" or 1.5" higher.
If you want to do it via springs, really need a proper strut/spring setup designed for longer travel, but I'm not sure if any such beast exists for the T3.
If you want to do it via springs, really need a proper strut/spring setup designed for longer travel, but I'm not sure if any such beast exists for the T3.
1 - 20 of 86 Posts
