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Matthew Nelson you a Cayenne also?
 

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Also curious if you guys complaining about your transmission shifting patterns have ever done a transmission reset and relearn procedure
 

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Specific to EGR (before I dive into Transmission stuff) - posts on Rennlist (not a lot of modified diesels, but there are a few) and TDIClub - I've yet to see anyone install a "blockoff plate" for the EGR disable. They merely disable it in software. I've made posts somewhere asking (might've been TDIClub) and never got an answer. I see blockoff plates for the 2.0's all over - but nothing for the 3.0 in the SUV's. Even all the "delete" guys - I've seen tons of references to new exhausts (to remove the brick), doing stuff (hardware changes) to the AdBlue system... but I've never seen anything referenced for EGR hard delete. And having JUST done a carbon cleaning, down to the EGR valve... I'd expect a LOT of comments about how much of a BITCH it is to get to. Not a lot of DIY'ers will go through that fiasco.

Really as it pertains to EGR, and how much soot and crap was in the intake after only about 20,000 miles... between that and a catch can it should at least keep carbon buildup to a minimum. The only two negatives so far that I've read - slower warmup as you mentioned, and one guy said he occasionally gets an EGR Cooler fault.... which he's not 100% sure is related to the EGR disable.

Whats fascinating is you keep saying how your car rushes to upshift to the next gear, thereby lugging it out. The fixed TCU doesn't do that it all.. it drags most shifts out to 2500 RPMS's give or take. The whole reason most want the TCU fix done by Joe is so that it goes back to the low-RPM shifting like it used to do and so it stops trying to upshift at high rpm's

I'm not there to see how your car is acting so its hard for me to tell you if its proper or not.. but I can assure you that getting your car tuned will help worlds and you'll have plenty of power in any gear at any time.


If you're towing something w/ a non-OEM setup then 10:1 you aren't getting the proper Porsche tow-mode enabled in the trans controller and you're just using your regular non-towing shift scheme. I can 100% absolutely see that making for a dreadful experience when towing.


I'm also curious of something. A lot of us Touareg guys use the Porsche shifting scheme in vagcom.. but since you have a Porsche, you should already have it by default. I wonder what vagcom says you're using for a shift-scheme and I wonder if changing it to, say, Touareg would enhance your driving experience.


For what its worth, the EGR on these 3.0 TDI don't cause many issues like the old school TDI's had. If you delete EGR you're gonna have to install block-off plates to do it properly and I'm pretty sure deleting EGR means you need to delete the throttle valves also, which should then be properly (mechanically) removed. Its not a simple task. The biggest reason for deleting the ERG on these is if your EGR cooler keeps going (which is somewhat common). Also note, winter warm-up time will take quite a bit longer w/out the EGR
(Just note - I do have all the factory tow parts including modules... but others, trying to save a buck... as the factory tow package in a retrofit is $2200 plus installation on the Cayennes... other guys will buy a cheap Curt hitch and bolt it up and claim "it's the same thing"...)

Ok what you said about the different shifting behaviors.... DOES have me wondering a bit about an old theory that I've recently revived in my head. Because the only time I notice "high" revs around town is when the vehicle is cold - first start of the morning. Otherwise it's constantly rolling around at very low revs. It insists on it.

Are you saying that, even when fully warmed up, yours is trying to keep revs high?

I've heard of some cases where people have said that when their vehicle was updated (the first time around) the TCU wasn't done. Dealer did the DME and that was it.

And what I see with this lugging engine... makes me wonder about mine. Dieselgate DME tune killed off-boost performance. A lugging engine with terrible off-boost performance and a trans trying to keep RPM low.... out of boost... bad combo.

I just ran out for a quick coffee run. The scenario I described a few posts above was probably mid-high 20mph range and definitely a 4->2 downshift. My truck is in 5th gear at 30mph and will hold 5th down to 27 before it drops to 4th. If I try to roll into it, it will do it's best to hold 5th gear, then take a deep breath and look for 2nd.

I took this picture a few minutes ago (disregard TPMS warning please, just did a tire rotation...) This was after rolling for at least a 1/2 mile on a relatively flat road. It sits in 5th. What gear is yours in at 29-30mph?

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Has it been posted somewhere here, a version number or something, for the current software revision, with a way to check it?

I have both a PIWIS (Porsche computer), DuraMetric (generic Porsche computer) and VAG-COM (which until recently, DID read the Cayenne... tho the other day when messing around, I got an error saying "unsupported vehicle". I've done data logs with VAG-COM before on the Cayenne so they must've disabled Cayenne in recent versions... I'll have to see if I can download an older version.)

Here's something that I found interesting the other day when looking to get the TCU part numbers in preparation for posting here (without pulling the seat).

Note the Programming Date, Coding Date, Manufacturing dates (this is from DuraMetric).

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If it is any consolation I said screw the warranty and went with Malone stage 2 and have the pre dieselgate TCU tune. I STILL have those moments where you round a corner at 25 or so and slowly keep applying pressure to the pedal and nothing happens. Nothing happens, nothing happens then finally it goes. Made much worse at altitude, BTW.

It seems like a really stupid transmission tuning issue, because all it needs to do is downshift. Even with the Malone this is still an annoying problem. Such a shame no one can tune these transmissions.

FWIW, I was pretty hard pressed to see any benefit going back to the predieselgate TCU tune. I'm actually looking for a postdieselgate TCU to swap back in and see how that goes.
I'm wondering if the dates in my screenshot above are a smoking gun? Perhaps I somehow have a pre-dieselgate TCU tune already and it was never updated?

In which case... why on EARTH would people claim "it's so much better!" when having their TCU flashed???? I'd rather have this thing stay out of torque converter lockup, feel a little "sloppy" on power delivery but at least MOVE.

Flashzilla ordered.....
 

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Mine is a 16 Touareg. I'll start the search for a non fixed TCU. Should be easy to find. FWIW, I do recall having the same feeling (waiting, waiting, waiting...) for a downshift with the fixed TCU. Curious to go back and see. Going on memory, I'd be hard pressed to call it an upgrade.

I did the relearn on mine, not much of a difference.
 

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Ah, keep forgetting that on the Cayennes.
Below 1600-1800 RPM, you're off the turbo, so it's a bad place to be in a Diesel and want sudden accelleration. Pushing the pedal down simply isn't going to do anything at that point until the tranny downshifts or the turbo spools up- probably both happened at once in your case.
I've noticed on mine, ~30MPH down to 10-15, it is very reluctant to downshift- whether it's in S or D. The rest of the time, S is very impressive, keeping revs up, shifting quick, downshifting on decel, pretty good. But you get into the 30s and want to accelerate quickly- it's gonna be a wait unless you force a shift in manual mode.
On the Touareg, it will shift to 8th at 70? if you maintain speed for a minute or two.
Diesels in general are going to run out of power above 4K RPM. The redline isn't set so much by the ability of the motor to hold together, but by the combustion event propogating in the combustion chamber. Diesel just won't ignite and expand fast enough to make power at high engine speeds. Remember, Diesel ignites as it's injected into the CC. Gasoline ignites by a spark after forming a mixture in the CC. So a gasoline engine can get a 'head start' on the whole process.
All of that is to say Diesels can accelerate faster lugging than downshifting for higher engine speed, in most cases. Falling off the turbo though is just bad news and shouldn't be happening, especially in Sport mode. The latest fix is better, but the 3-2 d/s is still a problem, in my book. The general turbo lag can be addressed by just getting on the throttle earlier in uh... spirited driving.

Looking forward to hearing your further experiences.
All Cayennes have the gear indicator on the dash. Speeds were probably 30ish. Fairly certain it was 4->2. My foot was practically on the floor, with nothing happening in the engine department, literally wallowing around at 1100-1200 before it downshifted and launched ahead. I've noticed that this thing wants to upshift as soon as possible - seems far more noticeable in heat/humidity. It's almost always at 1200rpm with a locked converter.

Sport mode fixes it all.... when down south on that trip it's pretty much what I reverted to doing... Sport mode all the time for the second half of the trip. But that locks out 7th/8th gear (unless I'm doing 70mph) and keeps me at ~2000rpm. So I'm in the power all the time but then fuel economy was only in the mid-teens!

Overall it's just maddening... these things were SO GOOD pre-dieselgate.... :/
 

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Ah, keep forgetting that on the Cayennes.
Below 1600-1800 RPM, you're off the turbo, so it's a bad place to be in a Diesel and want sudden accelleration. Pushing the pedal down simply isn't going to do anything at that point until the tranny downshifts or the turbo spools up- probably both happened at once in your case.
I've noticed on mine, ~30MPH down to 10-15, it is very reluctant to downshift- whether it's in S or D. The rest of the time, S is very impressive, keeping revs up, shifting quick, downshifting on decel, pretty good. But you get into the 30s and want to accelerate quickly- it's gonna be a wait unless you force a shift in manual mode.
On the Touareg, it will shift to 8th at 70? if you maintain speed for a minute or two.
Diesels in general are going to run out of power above 4K RPM. The redline isn't set so much by the ability of the motor to hold together, but by the combustion event propogating in the combustion chamber. Diesel just won't ignite and expand fast enough to make power at high engine speeds. Remember, Diesel ignites as it's injected into the CC. Gasoline ignites by a spark after forming a mixture in the CC. So a gasoline engine can get a 'head start' on the whole process.
All of that is to say Diesels can accelerate faster lugging than downshifting for higher engine speed, in most cases. Falling off the turbo though is just bad news and shouldn't be happening, especially in Sport mode. The latest fix is better, but the 3-2 d/s is still a problem, in my book. The general turbo lag can be addressed by just getting on the throttle earlier in uh... spirited driving.

Looking forward to hearing your further experiences.

The thing is - before Dieselgate broke for the 2nd round (where the 3.0's were implicated), I do not remember this being a problem. At all. I remember being impressed how this thing was always in the right gear at the right time and torque was always there. Prior to my first Cayenne I had a fullsize pickup with a 6-speed automatic and there were times it would get "tripped up" - my thoughts were, "Too many gears to choose from". And the Cayenne being an 8-speed... it impressed me that it always seemed to be in the right gear.

With the DG "fix" - all they changed on the 2015+ was software. So in theory - it should be possible to get back to pre-fix performance.

So... where does the problem lie - TCU or DME? Which... I guess is the million dollar question.

The local Malone Tuning dealer to me said "A tune will help but the problem is really with the TCU." But then others here more or less say the opposite - flashing the TCU back to pre-DG didn't feel like it did much. So which is it? I just want to get back to pre-DG performance. If Malone offered a "stock" but pre-fixed tune, I'd buy that!

Only thing I can think of is that VW didn't just change the calibration for the DG fix (basically, the values in the tables), they changed the strategy (which is the programming that decides how/when/where to access table cells) which is what ultimately kills performance. I don't believe most (or any) of the tunes out there actually alter anything but the calibrations and perhaps that's why even with a tune we haven't had anyone fully restore the feel of the pre-DG vehicles.
 

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YRKTREG does offer a pre-fix ECU flash option, but I understand he has health issues and hasn't been active lately. I'm not sure if it works on Cayennes though. You could look for a Cayenne ECU that was wrecked before the Fix.
I don't have much input on the differences as I bought my Stop Saled '16 Touareg new at the end of 2018 with the Fix already applied.
Tranny shifting was definitely changed as part of the fix- It was programmed to hold gears longer when cold to warm up faster. I don't know what all was changed, but it was named as being changed by the fix, along with the ECU.
If their primary goal was to reduce emissions- primarily NOx- they'd want to guarantee excess air- turbo spooled, engine speeds moderate, low to moderate load. If they had to change the shifting strategy to accomplish that, I just dunno.
Supposedly the latest fix does not alter the TCU, but does alter shift strategy, especially at low speeds. As far as I can tell it did not affect the 3->2 shift though. It reduced hesitation when rolling at low speeds- ~10MPH and suddenly accelerating. It used to just about snap your neck, now it just pushes you back more linearly.
The thing is - before Dieselgate broke for the 2nd round (where the 3.0's were implicated), I do not remember this being a problem. At all. I remember being impressed how this thing was always in the right gear at the right time and torque was always there. Prior to my first Cayenne I had a fullsize pickup with a 6-speed automatic and there were times it would get "tripped up" - my thoughts were, "Too many gears to choose from". And the Cayenne being an 8-speed... it impressed me that it always seemed to be in the right gear.

With the DG "fix" - all they changed on the 2015+ was software. So in theory - it should be possible to get back to pre-fix performance.

So... where does the problem lie - TCU or DME? Which... I guess is the million dollar question.

The local Malone Tuning dealer to me said "A tune will help but the problem is really with the TCU." But then others here more or less say the opposite - flashing the TCU back to pre-DG didn't feel like it did much. So which is it? I just want to get back to pre-DG performance. If Malone offered a "stock" but pre-fixed tune, I'd buy that!

Only thing I can think of is that VW didn't just change the calibration for the DG fix (basically, the values in the tables), they changed the strategy (which is the programming that decides how/when/where to access table cells) which is what ultimately kills performance. I don't believe most (or any) of the tunes out there actually alter anything but the calibrations and perhaps that's why even with a tune we haven't had anyone fully restore the feel of the pre-DG vehicles.
 

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Going on memory, I'd be hard pressed to call it an upgrade.
Re-reading old posts/threads... this is where/why I get confused. You and a few others seem to say "meh" on the TCU backdate.

Joe says the TCU backdate fixes most of the "fixed" complaints.

From Gaging interest on ECU fix. I've had a lot of...
I tell people that the TCM tune will fix about 80% of the "fixed" problems.
It gets the shifts back to where a diesel should be, gets back the engine braking and fixes most of the lag.

The TCM is also the safest, as it is virtually undetectable.
For those that want everything back including the lost torque and back to normal def usage and don't need the added boost of a stage 1 or 2 that is why I develped the stealth stock tune...
So.... I guess, which is it? I wish there were a lot of you guys, er, "us" around so we could test drive each others vehicles in the various states/configs to really quantify the differences.
 

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The thing is - before Dieselgate broke for the 2nd round (where the 3.0's were implicated), I do not remember this being a problem. At all. I remember being impressed how this thing was always in the right gear at the right time and torque was always there. Prior to my first Cayenne I had a fullsize pickup with a 6-speed automatic and there were times it would get "tripped up" - my thoughts were, "Too many gears to choose from". And the Cayenne being an 8-speed... it impressed me that it always seemed to be in the right gear.

With the DG "fix" - all they changed on the 2015+ was software. So in theory - it should be possible to get back to pre-fix performance.

So... where does the problem lie - TCU or DME? Which... I guess is the million dollar question.

The local Malone Tuning dealer to me said "A tune will help but the problem is really with the TCU." But then others here more or less say the opposite - flashing the TCU back to pre-DG didn't feel like it did much. So which is it? I just want to get back to pre-DG performance. If Malone offered a "stock" but pre-fixed tune, I'd buy that!

Only thing I can think of is that VW didn't just change the calibration for the DG fix (basically, the values in the tables), they changed the strategy (which is the programming that decides how/when/where to access table cells) which is what ultimately kills performance. I don't believe most (or any) of the tunes out there actually alter anything but the calibrations and perhaps that's why even with a tune we haven't had anyone fully restore the feel of the pre-DG vehicles.
Yes Joe is spot on for later 3.0 Tregs. Can’t comment on older versions. The main issue with these vehicles is the TCM fix. The shift pattern has been altered with a goal of lowering overall emissions while foregoing the original performance characteristics of the powertrain. Vehicle warm up behavior, shift points, and engine braking features of the transmission have been removed or weakened. Anyone that goes from the fix back to the OEM original TCM tune will notice a definite improvement overall. This is by far the single greatest improvement to these vehicles. The ECM has more to do with Ad-blue consumption and maybe percent of EGR usage but these aren’t really noticeable to overall drivability of the vehicle.


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I agree. Joes tuned TCM is a very noticeable improvement. I was very impressed with the improved downshifting as well. Prior to the tuning I was very unimpressed with the way the Treg would down shift on braking. It wasn’t smooth. Now it seems to keep a much better tension with just the right ratio of engine and brakes to decelerate. But definitely all around a big improvement. I wouldn’t say it’s perfect but it’s very good.
 

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FWIW, I notice zero difference in my 2015's transmission behaviour when towing, be it my utility trailer with side-by-side, or my boat or car trailer and car (around 7300lbs). I see no mention of this alleged "tow-mode" in the SSP or other VW literature, nor is there any change in the TCM under VCDS. I have the pre-tune TCM. I leave it in "S" most of the time.

Perhaps a placebo/side effect people are noticing due to having more weight behind them? :unsure:
 

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With you living in Canada you could have a different post fix tune than we do here in the US because I can tell you firsthand there is a definitive difference without question. Does your vehicle rev up to roughly 3000 RPMs during a cold morning before shifting? Ours does but didn’t do it before. Does yours down shift while going down a steep grade with no trailer? I can tell you firsthand ours did before but after the fix no longer does now. Ours also has a slower shift pattern like when flooring it to pass etc but didn’t do this before the so called “fix”. I know this because I have experience first hand from pre to post fix tunes. For most all of us here in the US there is for sure a difference.


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FWIW, I notice zero difference in my 2015's transmission behaviour when towing, be it my utility trailer with side-by-side, or my boat or car trailer and car (around 7300lbs). I see no mention of this alleged "tow-mode" in the SSP or other VW literature, nor is there any change in the TCM under VCDS. I have the pre-tune TCM. I leave it in "S" most of the time.

Perhaps a placebo/side effect people are noticing due to having more weight behind them? :unsure:
Look harder - there are something like 100 additional 'tow maps' which alter shift-points, braking, ABS logic, ESP logic that integrates with the trailer brakes, transmission logic etc. On the Touaregs that get air-suspension I believe it alters suspension programming.

If you tow in Sport mode, I wonder if that bypasses the tow-mode transmission strategy of drive.. I bet it does. I would never tow in in Sport thats just silly.

Also to note - if your Touareg didn't come with the tow package factory then you really should go to the dealer so that they can install the electronics module and program the module properly. If you don't, you'll never get the above noted features. This was the same w/ Tiguans - if you don't have factory tow package the dealer has to program it.

Tow Mode (when a trailer is plugged into the 7-pin..) also does other things like disabling your rear lift-gate from opening when it detects a trailer, disables rear park assist, the alarm will go off (if you've locked the car) and it detects the trailer being unplugged etc The OEM tow module also alerts you to trailer-lights that have failed.
 
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Look harder - there are something like 100 additional 'tow maps' which alter shift-points, braking, ABS logic, ESP logic that integrates with the trailer brakes, transmission logic etc. On the Touaregs that get air-suspension I believe it alters suspension programming.

If you tow in Sport mode, I wonder if that bypasses the tow-mode transmission strategy of drive.. I bet it does. I would never tow in in Sport thats just silly.

Also to note - if your Touareg didn't come with the tow package factory then you really should go to the dealer so that they can install the electronics module and program the module properly. If you don't, you'll never get the above noted features. This was the same w/ Tiguans - if you don't have factory tow package the dealer has to program it.

Tow Mode (when a trailer is plugged into the 7-pin..) also does other things like disabling your rear lift-gate from opening when it detects a trailer, disables rear park assist, the alarm will go off (if you've locked the car) and it detects the trailer being unplugged etc The OEM tow module also alerts you to trailer-lights that have failed.
Good info


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Why would a guy who retrofitted his T3 with air suspension, an option not available in NA, need to go to the dealer to get a tow module activated? I am willing to bet he would figure it out on his own.
Look harder - there are something like 100 additional 'tow maps' which alter shift-points, braking, ABS logic, ESP logic that integrates with the trailer brakes, transmission logic etc. On the Touaregs that get air-suspension I believe it alters suspension programming.

If you tow in Sport mode, I wonder if that bypasses the tow-mode transmission strategy of drive.. I bet it does. I would never tow in in Sport thats just silly.

Also to note - if your Touareg didn't come with the tow package factory then you really should go to the dealer so that they can install the electronics module and program the module properly. If you don't, you'll never get the above noted features. This was the same w/ Tiguans - if you don't have factory tow package the dealer has to program it.

Tow Mode (when a trailer is plugged into the 7-pin..) also does other things like disabling your rear lift-gate from opening when it detects a trailer, disables rear park assist, the alarm will go off (if you've locked the car) and it detects the trailer being unplugged etc The OEM tow module also alerts you to trailer-lights that have failed.
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Well probably because it’s the same guy that said maybe going back to the original pre-fix software might just a placebo effect. Lol

The point is that sometimes it hard for a person in one country to know what features or options might be available or different in another country. For most there’s no way to know what each country has or doesn’t have based on gov regulations etc. For this reason it’s hard to make a direct comparison between the same type vehicles located in different countries.


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It shifts noticeably different- it's not subtle, it's not esoteric. Engine braking and downshifts are much more aggressive, upshifts are at higher RPM even under light throttle. Tows like a dream on ACC. I never had mine in S mode when towing, so that may be the difference. Alot of little things make alot more sense when it's towing.
It's a bigger difference than the difference between S and D by my reckoning.
FWIW, I notice zero difference in my 2015's transmission behaviour when towing, be it my utility trailer with side-by-side, or my boat or car trailer and car (around 7300lbs). I see no mention of this alleged "tow-mode" in the SSP or other VW literature, nor is there any change in the TCM under VCDS. I have the pre-tune TCM. I leave it in "S" most of the time.

Perhaps a placebo/side effect people are noticing due to having more weight behind them? :unsure:
 

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Why would a guy who retrofitted his T3 with air suspension, an option not available in NA, need to go to the dealer to get a tow module activated? I am willing to bet he would figure it out on his own.

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Because it's a physical module that needs to be installed (if your touareg didn't come with tow package...) and then physically programmed.
 

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I have a factory fitted hitch with functioning tow module installed.

Perhaps the alleged “tow mode” is felt differently by people. I personally don’t notice any difference. But perhaps other people do notice a difference. As long as you’re having fun.
 
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