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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
We've been considering an upgrade to our 05 but I have not owned a diesel that didn't float since my 3T truck with a Perkins 6-354.

100k on the clock with 2+ years left on the 4/48 fix warranty. New fuel pump at 20k, new transfer case at 65k, battery in 2016. everything else seems fairly normal ie no red flags and it was a factory buy back so sat for I believe 2 years.

Seller says its currently at the dealer after having a second glow plug go out. I'm inclined to go see it when he gets it back so perfect time for input and comments here. Thanks in advance

PS no accidents, cosmetics appear to be excellent and 80k service was done by dealer
 

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It really comes down to the price you can get it for.

Two years warranty (what about distance?) certainly makes it attractive as 100K is much less than average for for an '09
I would work out how much time it was out of action, servicing records should give you an approximation, try to find out the reason for the transfer case replacement as that is not normal and try to work out how much you're likely get for it once your warranty runs out should you decide to move on.
If all those numbers work out, go for it as there are a number of ex T2 owners who regret moving to the current generation.
I did something similar in Dec 17 by moving from my fastidiously maintained '08 with 240K kms/145K miles, to a higher optioned '08 with 55K miles for a changeover cost of less than USD3000, no warranty.
The numbers just made sense to me at the time.

TonyB
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I mentioned it was out of action for 2 years and its only added 7k since the fix so lots of miles left. What's interesting is that I read that the warranty starts at the date of fix or the date of the next retail sale. I assume "date of fix" refers to customers who kept their vehicles and "date of resale" would refer to mfg buybacks put back on the market. If that's true it appears to have gone through 2 auctions and another year after the fix before it was finally sold retail this spring by this same dealer who now has it on consignment.

I'll likely call VW on this point since it's significant since it means there's 3.5 years and 40k left of the warranty....big bonus. If anyone has any experience with how VW does the math on this it would sure be appreciated for obvious reasons.

I can also contact the dealer who did the TC swap and inquire, but can't think of a reason it would matter as to why. These things break and one with 35km is sure better than one w 100k...or am I missing something ?

Last plus is that he asked if I wanted to trade the 05 which to my mind has very little value but the convenience of swapping plates and papers is hard to ignore. I'll have that conversation w him tomorrow and see if the stars are aligning :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Seems it's been blowing glow plug relays 🤷‍♂️

It has the technology pkg and I also see it has leather and dual power seats. Would that make it a Lux ?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I did that but it only shows the fix date. If my reading of the rules is correct I expect it will take a call to VW and likely some paperwork. Worth the effort if it gets another year of warranty.
 

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Ah ok, I thought they would be more specific. I bought my 2010 TDI in May and it has four
years of warranty on the emissions system etc. I very happy with it
 

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Seems it's been blowing glow plug relays 🤷‍♂️

It has the technology pkg and I also see it has leather and dual power seats. Would that make it a Lux ?
I believe the Lux models have 2-tone leather interior and slightly different body trim around fenders and lower valances on the front and rear bumpers. I have a 2010 with Tech package and air suspension, but thankfully no Lux package. I did not like the cream leather seats.

I would recommend following up with the dealer that serviced the car for the original owner if you have identified them. If you ask nicely they will give you the service history they have after they redact it. I had 2 2009 TDIs that I sold back to VW and the first one had extensive fuel system repairs around 50K mi that I found out about by getting the service records. It had 100K by the time I bought it, but I could tell it was going to have some issues down the road so I was happy to sell to VW.

The second one I bought was the exact same car, but only had 52K on it and was clearly well maintained. It was a totally different vehicle and was super smooth. I had no issues with it and it was actually the reason I bought one post-buyback. The 2010 I have now is almost as flawless in terms of the feel of the drivetrain, and the air suspension definitely keeps me from complaining about the minor cosmetic imperfections. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I've read that it was the Lux Ltd that has the 2 tone interior and this is anthracite (or black). It's this quote which does cover 2009 & 10 so is not 100% definitive but

"Lux ($2600): adds Vanova wood trim with cricket leather interior, front power seats, heated steering wheel".

Not sure what cricket leather is but it def has leather, wood grain here and there and dual power seats.

I appreciate hearing the good experiences with these and will be calling dealers come Monday regarding prior service since I've made a deal with the seller (subject to no surprises when we meet). hope to pick it up this week after he gets the new headliner and sorts out the glow plug issue with VW.

Trading my 05 w 165k and $8k plus tax. It's a no brainer really since the T2 looks as good as any 2015 I've seen and has a warranty of some duration.
 

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I've read that it was the Lux Ltd that has the 2 tone interior and this is anthracite (or black). It's this quote which does cover 2009 & 10 so is not 100% definitive but

"Lux ($2600): adds Vanova wood trim with cricket leather interior, front power seats, heated steering wheel".

Not sure what cricket leather is but it def has leather, wood grain here and there and dual power seats.

I appreciate hearing the good experiences with these and will be calling dealers come Monday regarding prior service since I've made a deal with the seller (subject to no surprises when we meet). hope to pick it up this week after he gets the new headliner and sorts out the glow plug issue with VW.

Trading my 05 w 165k and $8k plus tax. It's a no brainer really since the T2 looks as good as any 2015 I've seen and has a warranty of some duration.
This will explain it:
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Thanks Bryan. The 19" Terra wheels & other goodies mentioned point to a Luxury Package although I don't see a keyless start button. For sure the technology pkg.

The deal keeps getting better
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
So I found the language I was referring to regarding to possibility of the AEM effective date being more recent than the actual modification date.

In addition, and concurrently, the Extended Emissions Warranty runs for 4 years or 48,000 miles (whichever occurs first) from the date of modification or first dealer resale post-modification. Your vehicle was modified on Apr 5, 2019 and 94,884 miles. Please see your VW dealership for additional information on the vehicle's post-modification dealer re-sale date.

Depending on the definition of "first dealer resale post modification" I'm hopeful. Car fax shows it went through 2 dealers via auction over the course of a year after the mod.

I can't be the only one with a buyback TDI. Surely someone has experience with this
 

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In addition, and concurrently, the Extended Emissions Warranty runs for 4 years or 48,000 miles (whichever occurs first) from the date of modification or first dealer resale post-modification. Your vehicle was modified on Apr 5, 2019 and 94,884 miles. Please see your VW dealership for additional information on the vehicle's post-modification dealer re-sale date.
You are reading this the same way I do. I have not verified with VWoA or a local dealer, but since mine was modified on Aug 21, 2019 at 83,447 miles and I was the first retail buyer after the fix (in January 2020) I assume the 4/48K will run through January 2024 or 131,447 miles.

I had a CPO Passat TDI too and warranty work would cost me a $50 deductible, though the warranty was bumper to bumper. Still, when I had a CEL for a glow plug pop up on the Touareg the dealer was happy to replace it and detail the car for free. Given how long the list of "emissions related" parts that are covered is, it is a great deal.

My advice would be to continue to dig into the vehicle's history, make sure you have a competent mechanic that knows VW TDIs look it over, and get all your drive train fluids (including trans filter) replaced when you take possession.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm 100% in agreement with your comments. I will be drilling down on this warranty issue and will share what I learn since this is very valuable. It's clear that VWNA has downloaded at least some of the responsibility to the dealers and well...I know a guy lol..so stay tuned

As for fluids, since the TC was replaced 35k ago i believe it's fine for now, engine is getting fresh liqui moly but def will do the trans and diffs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You guys are going to love this, ESPECIALLY anyone who bought a buyback TDi ( like I'm about to be).

I waited 2 hours for a call back from VWNA and the csr was a very sweet young lady. She understood my position regarding the warranty start date for resold vehicles and I conceded from the start that I understood she could not personally answer my questions. She gathered data, put me on hold to speak to a supervisor and said the warranty starts the date the sticker was put on. Now I know a dead end when I see one and did not want to ruin her day so I asked for an escalation to which she advised "the litigation group was disbanded"

The good news is she told me Adesa did the mod on this particular vehicle so that was my next call. They couldn't tell me anything beyond the mod sticker date but they are a dealer only auction house and they did sell it.

Keep in mind that the VW consumer website says the warranty starts "the date of modification or the date of first dealer resale" which isn't really defined....so I looked for the definition. Keep in mind my sticker says 4/5/19 and 94882mi. That's the official start date. Auction took place 5/20 and then another auction on 9/30/19 w 94974 mi and no sign of a private sale until 5/6/20 here in FL at 95499mi.

The consent decree says this:

4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever comes first, from date and mileage of implementing the Emissions Modification, except for vehicles offered for resale, in which case, from the date and mileage of the first resale transaction after the modification to the first person who in good faith purchases the vehicle for purposes other than resale.

Note...." to the first person who in good faith purchases the vehicle for purposes other than resale. That means that auction and dealer to dealer sales do not trigger the start date. Assuming carfax is accurate, which can be argued, there is no defense to my start date being the Florida sale in May 20. I'll figure out how to get that on the record since we are talking about an extra year of AEM for me and who knows how much else for anyone else with a buyback TDi.

Can you spell "contempt of court"

Stay tuned.
 

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4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever comes first, from date and mileage of implementing the Emissions Modification, except for vehicles offered for resale, in which case, from the date and mileage of the first resale transaction after the modification to the first person who in good faith purchases the vehicle for purposes other than resale.
Thaaat's where I remember seeing this language...the consent decree. Interesting that the language in VWoAs dedicated emissions modification info page differs in that specific way. I have always had it in mind that it was the first consumer purchase of a buyback vehicle that started the clock, and that would explain why.

Sounds like you have a good handle on maintenance requirements. I also run Liqui Moly products in all my VWs. I would still plan for TC fluid exchange in about 40-50K miles; my TC fluid was pretty dirty when changed at 84K. Given the quality of our diesel in the US and incredible fuel system pressures, my mechanic also changed the fuel filter and inspected the canister for any rust or other debris when I took possession. I sleep better knowing it got a clean bill of health.

Most TDI owners I know also run Power Service or Stanadyne fuel additives. I use it in every tank in my CR VWs and every other tank in the older PD models. I have observed a ~2% improvement in fuel economy while running it, but as always YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
The VW website says if you bought a buyback "see your dealer" which to a logical mind would imply that if it was the dealer who sold it to you they would have a process for updating the warranty start date in house or at least have a means to formally advise VWNA of the new date. In my case VWNA told me my new T2 was modified by Adesa in Atlanta who also happens to be an auction house. If you go to their website it does show 2 log in buttons for VW buyback inventory. One is for VW dealers and 1 is for non VW dealers which leads me to think that if they have a process for VW dealers to update the start date, they may also have one for non VW dealers (such as my current seller).

I've spoken briefly on this point with my seller, who believes he bought it from VW at auction (that would be nice for me wouldnt it) and with a service advisor with a franchise dealer. Neither had any idea about start dates beyond what's on the mod sticker. This raises the question as to whether VWNA is adhering to the spirit of the consent decree notwithstanding the letter of it, but it's too soon to pass judgement.

What I do know is that my start date should be 5/2020 and that my goal is to find the person with the system rights to update the database. Hopefully it will be with honey but if not it really shouldn't take too much vinegar given the...shall we say...vulnerability of VW in this matter <evil grin>

I'll add that the consent decree provides that if they fail to honor the warranty the fine is $40k per occurrence to be divided between the FTC and I believe CARB. One could imply that stating an end date outside the terms of the consent decree constitutes a "failure to honor" but the more clear pain threshold is the period between the end date as of now and the end date that it should be. If you make a claim and they say, incorrectly, that it's because your warranty has expired, THAT would cost them $40k and they have already waived any defense to this in the decree.

Based on this and the amount of time before this really matters I'm confident it will get sorted. The only question is will it take honey or vinegar. VWNA...are you listening :)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
This just gets more interesting. I did pick up the T2 yesterday and drove her 300 mi home (drive down in the T1 trade). Readers digest impression is that she really is cosmetically flawless which was high on my list. With the transfer case having 38k since being replaced and the AEM anything else can be fixed. It does have excessive wear on the rears so I got them to cover half the price of a new set and I'm pleased as punch. Short story on the TDi is I'm grinning ear to ear and don't mind having to do brakes, tires and in the not too distant future shocks. Pics to follow.

The REALLY good news is that, since Florida now does eTitle the dealer had all his original paper work of which he gave me a colored copy. State of Michigan title with the back showing 2 dealer signatures, as well as the current owner info confirming his purchase date of 5/2020. So dealer, dealer, consumer all on one piece of paper. Flip it over and the title as of May was in the name of....wait for it....VWoA !!!

So there you have it. Forensic documentation proving that the first post fix sale to an owner who "did not in good faith intend to resell it" took place in May 2020 and that's when my AEM started. The next step will be fun which is why I don't mind doing brakes and shocks :)
 

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Ouch.. brakes, shocks and tires is easily going to be probably $6,000 or more
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Not sure where you got those numbers from but I do my own work and have new zimmermans sitting so ball park is $1200 for tires and alignment, pads etc maybe $200 and shocks seem to be $4-800 depending on your preference.

You're high by a factor of 3 IME
 
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