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According to a french forum it could be possible to measure the timing chain stretch with VCDS.

Go into groups 208 and 209 at idle and note the 3rd value. Both should be between -6 and 6 AND the two values should not be further apart than 4.

In my case, both values is -6 and then the difference is 0. So it's borderline to stretched.

Can anyone confirm or do their own measurement?

I have my own theory about my values. The chain is not stretched, hence both is -6, but I should re-prime the tensioner to get the values closer to zero. Or it might be the other way around.
 

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Interesting. Not seen that before.
 

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Please let me know when you find out. I purchased a new tensioner and will install soon.
VW had a technical Bulletin 15 07 03 Jan 31 2007, 2010614 concerning MIL ON with DTCs P1347/17755 and P1340/17748 related to elongated timing chain. In VAS 5051/5052 if field 3 measurements in display group 208 and 209 are less than
-8.0 KW (-9.0 to -14.0 KW) and if both speed sensor and camshaft sensors are OK - Replace upper timing chain

Not certain how VAS relates to VcDs but as you indicated the stretched chain can be determined. Replacing the tensioner will not help if the condition is to advanced but for the cost of the tensioner would not hurt to try.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Great find on the TSB. It's the same values, but the "safe" zone seems to be between -8 to +8. Both VAS and VCDS use degrees KW as well.
 

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Great find on the TSB. It's the same values, but the "safe" zone seems to be between -8 to +8. Both VAS and VCDS use degrees KW as well.
I have been driving my car for over six months with CEL on. My chain is stretched. I can hear it quite clearly until engine temp and oil temp are 200 F. After that no problem. Now that it has gotten really cold the noise is very noticeable at start up. Will have it corrected in the spring unless it gets worse. To mitigate am changing oil more often. If you are at -6 you should be able to hear your upper chain slapping around. It will sound like marbles rolling around in a can mid point of the upper dash. Don't think the tensioner will resolve the issue. You should be getting camshaft position correlation codes which are generally a good indicator of a stretched chain if the sensors are fine otherwise. If you are not getting the codes the tensioner may help. My bet and experience with same engine is the upper chain is stretched. Best thing for the 3.2L is to keep the oil fresh. Screw the manual, change oil at half the interval or no more than 3/4. It costs a lot less than pulling the engine to change the upper chain. To bad VW used an engine meant to be transversely mounted in the V6. OK if they left enough room between the firewall and block to change a damaged chain but no such luck.
 

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I suspect it's close to 100k miles now.
I have 41K miles. Think my problem started with the upper tensioner. It was not extending properly and actually was slightly out of plumb. Not certain at what measurement you will start getting codes but at -6 imagine you may be getting close. Would think you could hear slightly. In any event if you start getting camshaft crankshaft correlation errors don't be so quick to replace. If the car starts and runs the crankshaft sensor is fine. If one of the crankshaft sensors goes bad you will know as the car will take noticeably longer to crank, or that is how it was for me.
 

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I have been driving my car for over six months with CEL on. My chain is stretched. I can hear it quite clearly until engine temp and oil temp are 200 F. After that no problem. Now that it has gotten really cold the noise is very noticeable at start up. Will have it corrected in the spring unless it gets worse. To mitigate am changing oil more often. If you are at -6 you should be able to hear your upper chain slapping around. It will sound like marbles rolling around in a can mid point of the upper dash. Don't think the tensioner will resolve the issue. You should be getting camshaft position correlation codes which are generally a good indicator of a stretched chain if the sensors are fine otherwise. If you are not getting the codes the tensioner may help. My bet and experience with same engine is the upper chain is stretched. Best thing for the 3.2L is to keep the oil fresh. Screw the manual, change oil at half the interval or no more than 3/4. It costs a lot less than pulling the engine to change the upper chain. To bad VW used an engine meant to be transversely mounted in the V6. OK if they left enough room between the firewall and block to change a damaged chain but no such luck.
When you say "....200F.....After that.....No problem" do you mean NO NOISE ??? or NO performance problem???

I purchased my car at approx 190000kms so I suspect the timing chain would have stretched by then.

I will try the tensioner after an oil flush.
 

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Hello,
Can someone please help with measure blocks values for 208 & 209?
Also, group 90, 91 & 93.

Group 208 -5 deg KW
Group 209 -10 deg KW

Oh, and what does the count mean? I have 131 and 136????

See pictures below.

My wife said the car was really sluggish to drive today so I am not sure the tensioner and oil flush will work.

Thanks

Ben.
2004 v6 3.2 Touareg
230,000kms.
Using Penrite 5w/40 Fully Synthetic.
 

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When you say "....200F.....After that.....No problem" do you mean NO NOISE ??? or NO performance problem???

I purchased my car at approx 190000kms so I suspect the timing chain would have stretched by then.

I will try the tensioner after an oil flush.
No noise once oil temp gets up to about 150F. Don't really have a performance problem. I just don't push to hard until noise is gone. Car idles steady RPM after just a few minutes but is slightly rough briefly after start up.
 

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Thanks. I work in the auto industry and a guy at work told me their engine calibrations usually cope with +/- 7 deg.

The vw limit on the tsb is +/'- 8 deg.

I am at -10 so I suspect this is causing me some performance issues.

Thanks.
 

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Thanks. I work in the auto industry and a guy at work told me their engine calibrations usually cope with +/- 7 deg.

The vw limit on the tsb is +/'- 8 deg.

I am at -10 so I suspect this is causing me some performance issues.

Thanks.
When VW looked at my car MVD 208 & 209 field 3 measurement was blank. MVD 91 field 4 jumped from -3 to 2 degrees at idle . MVD field 90 field 4 read 0 at constant idle. They could not get basic setting 94 96 to run at moderating temp. VW suspected stretched cam chain. Brought the car in for hard cranking when hot. VW never figured out one of the camshaft sensors quit sending a signal when it got hot. Anyway car is running fine but am taking a risk driving in the current condition. Doubt the chain will snap but it is possible the guides could break. Car runs great at operating temp. Can barely tell it is on at idle.
 

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Funny you should say field 3 went blank.

Today I went for a drive with the laptop and vcds logging function.
At start up I had -10 deg kw and i cleared the crank/cam correlation code.
Then after 5 minutes driving it went blank.
When I got home and exported the .csv to excel I saw that it went from -10 then -11 for a few times, then -12. Then it went blank.

I then did oil flush and put the new tensioner in. It rattled at startup 😰😨 and then went quiet. I only soaked it for about 5 minutes in oil so I suspect it may have had an air bubble in it. I'll be more careful next time!

Bottom line is that it didn't fix it. I still have -5 deg and -10 deg.
 

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Funny you should say field 3 went blank.

Today I went for a drive with the laptop and vcds logging function.
At start up I had -10 deg kw and i cleared the crank/cam correlation code.
Then after 5 minutes driving it went blank.
When I got home and exported the .csv to excel I saw that it went from -10 then -11 for a few times, then -12. Then it went blank.

I then did oil flush and put the new tensioner in. It rattled at startup dde30dde28 and then went quiet. I only soaked it for about 5 minutes in oil so I suspect it may have had an air bubble in it. I'll be more careful next time!

Bottom line is that it didn't fix it. I still have -5 deg and -10 deg.
Sorry to hear. The start up noise after replacing the tensioner is common especially with an oil change. I was very careful with my tensioner soaked it, primed it and had same noise at first start up. Generally even when you don't have a chain issue if you listen carefully at start up there will be some chain noise until the oil pressure builds up. The tensioner cylinder is fed by a pretty small hole so a little time is needed at start up before the tensioner pushes on the chain guide removing slack. To bad VW did not make a way to mechanically adjust the tension when they decided to mount the engine inline vs transverse. Sure would have been cheaper to correct and not require pulling the engine. Seen some discussion that it may be possible to replace the upper chain without pulling, however not a lot of room to work and would require small hands patience, and luck.
 

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I got my car back from the mechanic yesterday after getting the timing chain, guides and 2 sprockets replaced.

Result : better idle, smoother power delivery (especially mid-range), no chain rattle, No fault code.

MEASURE BLOCKS GROUP 93 :
Old values : - 5 deg , - 10 deg
New values : -2 deg, - 6 deg
Specification : (+/- 8 deg)

Does anyone else have timing values after the chain has been replaced?
Should it be closer to 0 deg. ?

Thanks, Ben
 

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This error code may have something to do whit the timing chain?
17755, P1347 - 002
17748, P1340 - 002

I try to clear this code but after 60km is engine light an error back. Is just some sensor fault or timing chain stretch? :confused:

Thanks.
 
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