Saturday night I took my wife's 2008 Touareg to work because she had just came home from errands and her vehcle was already warm. After an overnight shift I tried starting it and it would only half start and shook violently before quitting. I tried a few more times and same thing. It was cold this night here in northern Minnesota and got -13 degrees Farenheit. However, it has been outside in much colder temps and never had an issue. Long story short I had to get it towed and only to find out the exhaust was completely frozen up under the vehicle. According to my service department our era of Touareg does not have drain holes in the exhaust like the new generation Touareg and as a result it was just another one of the many problems we have had with this vehicle. The dealer ended up drilling some holes for us and even seemed in disbelief about the situation. And by the way it was not packed with snow underneath and I can assure you this vehicle is babied. This is the only vehicle I have ever had do this and I'm just annoyed at what has gone wrong on this thing considering the "premium" label. I told my wife the next issue and it is gone for an American SUV and we are done with VW.
HOW CAN THIS BE?? EXHAUST DESIGN FLAW IN 2008 TOUAREG 2
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What a preposterous solution to a would be problem.
Btw, is this Touareg driven more than 2 consecutive km's at a time or not?
Btw, is this Touareg driven more than 2 consecutive km's at a time or not?
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Thought the same here VW, but he said the wife had just returned home from running an errand and he took the car because it was "already warmed up."
But yes, sounds like the car wasn't running long enough for the cat to heat up enough...failing to vaporize the moisture, leading to condensation accumulation when he shut it off at work. Condensation in exhaust at -13 = ice-blocked exhaust in about 35-40 mins. But drilling holes in the exhaust???? W-T-F!!!?!!! I would never go to that STEALership again!
But yes, sounds like the car wasn't running long enough for the cat to heat up enough...failing to vaporize the moisture, leading to condensation accumulation when he shut it off at work. Condensation in exhaust at -13 = ice-blocked exhaust in about 35-40 mins. But drilling holes in the exhaust???? W-T-F!!!?!!! I would never go to that STEALership again!
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Truth be said, I seem to recall 3 years ago, having read the same problem, something about a frozen muffler lol.
After some simple interrogation questions, he admitted he didn't drive it much.
Hmmmm, never heard from the ol'chap ever again now that I think about it.
After some simple interrogation questions, he admitted he didn't drive it much.
Hmmmm, never heard from the ol'chap ever again now that I think about it.
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This is what dealerships get when they skimp on knowledge & experience to save a couple of saw bucks on labor. 
BTW...to the OP'r...I would have another dealership, put it up on a lift to document the damage this dealership did...(tell them you took it to mom & pop's service center (NOT the dealership). Tell them you think they may have screwed the pooch on your exhaust. Let the new dealership document the damage as if you are going to make Mom & Pop pay to fix the damage. Once you have documented proof of the damage & estimate for repair from the second dealer in hand, along with the invoice from the first STEALership....call VW Customer Care or VWoA and scream bloody murder till your exhaust is made whole again AT NO COST TO YOU!
Don't blame the manufacturer for the dealership's DUMB-ARSE mistake! Sorry you are having probs with your Treg, but sounds like your dealership may be causing you more headaches than help.
BTW... Hope you don't have to have emissions testing there. If you do, the dealership just ensured the Treg will fail its next inspection..
Good luck!
Peace
PS...You're not in St Olaf are ya?? Even Rose wouldn't trust the mechanics there to work on her tricycle!! LOL. j/k.
BTW...to the OP'r...I would have another dealership, put it up on a lift to document the damage this dealership did...(tell them you took it to mom & pop's service center (NOT the dealership). Tell them you think they may have screwed the pooch on your exhaust. Let the new dealership document the damage as if you are going to make Mom & Pop pay to fix the damage. Once you have documented proof of the damage & estimate for repair from the second dealer in hand, along with the invoice from the first STEALership....call VW Customer Care or VWoA and scream bloody murder till your exhaust is made whole again AT NO COST TO YOU!
Don't blame the manufacturer for the dealership's DUMB-ARSE mistake! Sorry you are having probs with your Treg, but sounds like your dealership may be causing you more headaches than help.
BTW... Hope you don't have to have emissions testing there. If you do, the dealership just ensured the Treg will fail its next inspection.
. Good luck!
Peace PS...You're not in St Olaf are ya?? Even Rose wouldn't trust the mechanics there to work on her tricycle!! LOL. j/k.
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Q: What would cause water to drip from the back of my car’s muffler?
A: Auto manufacturers commonly put a “weep” hole on the rear, bottom part of the muffler. This allows water to exit, reducing inside corrosion. Water is a normal tailpipe emission created by the catalytic converter. The catalytic converter reduces harmful gases that come from the engine (e.g., carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, and nitrogen oxides) and changes them into water, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen gas. The water that is dripping from your tailpipe is from this process and from condensation inside the exhaust system.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/tiny-strange-muffler-hole-pics-497001/
A: Auto manufacturers commonly put a “weep” hole on the rear, bottom part of the muffler. This allows water to exit, reducing inside corrosion. Water is a normal tailpipe emission created by the catalytic converter. The catalytic converter reduces harmful gases that come from the engine (e.g., carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, and nitrogen oxides) and changes them into water, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen gas. The water that is dripping from your tailpipe is from this process and from condensation inside the exhaust system.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/tiny-strange-muffler-hole-pics-497001/
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As I started reading this thread, I remembered the same post from way back whenever!
It does sound as tho' the car has only been doing lots of short journies and, as a consequence, the exhaust system has not been warming up sufficiently to dry out the condensation that all cars generate when starting from cold with the end result that the condensate has frozen, which would increase its volume as well, and thus blocked the exhaust sufficiently to stall the engine.
I've never heard of drilling holes in exhausts before, so that bit is a new one on me and, hitherto, would have been a complete anathema!
Can anyone with a T3 get out and get under to confirm whether or not they have a weep hole in their exhaust?
As for the OPs car, then regardless of the newly acquired drains, I'd take that out on a good, long, high speed run with lots of gear changes to max the revs and clear its lungs! It's been babied far too much and needs a damned good workout!!
Thanks for the responses folks and I did want to add a few things. The night I took the vehicle I can assure you it was hot and had been driven probably 15-20 miles before it was shut down for the night. It was much warmer than my wife's typical trips to work which are only about 5 miles or so. I do now seem to remember hearing a more pronounced "gurgling" sound coming from the tailpipes as I was clearing snow from the driveway before leaving. On the way to my work I probably got to a max of 45 mph due to city driving and glare ice ad snow packed roads. As far as my dealership I have to be honest folks I really like them and they have treated us very well. For example they just fixed a broken windshield cowling for free after finding VW would not cover under our extended warranty. They said they used some kind of "VW Bucks" which they are only alloted a certain amount for good customers. This job with labor if I remember corrrectly was around $300.00. And as far as the "holes" they drilled I'm not exactly sure where and how many were drilled because my wife picked up the vehicle and that is what was on the printed out repair slip. I would have to assume they cleared this with VW before doing and is for the function of a "weep hole" like some of you mentioned. I do love driving this thing and do take it out myself for some higher speed runs because I know my wife's trips are short, perhaps we need to do this more? We love this thing when all is right and I just got so dang p'od that morning because I just kept thinking we live in a very hostile climate 5-6 months of year and this could have been my wife alone with our children stranded somewhere in BFE...I will probably email the dealership today to get more details as to the problem and the holes they drilled.
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From the sound of things, you should be okay now, but the 5 milers aren't really long enough to blow the cobwebs out. You need to drive it for longer and more often!!
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I just checked my T3 TDI, don't see any weep holes in the large suitcase muffler. But maybe TDIs don't need them since there's no catalytic converter generating lots of byproduct water...
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There is a catalytic convert and a DPF on all TDIs...oh yes and an adblue system that squirts a 70% /30% mixture of water/urea into the exhaust after it goes through the cat and the dpf.
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They didn't have cat's for the longest time, I think they were introduced across the TDI range in 2004.
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I know I'm splitting hair but after implementing emission control systems for "off-highway" equipment (excavators and container handling equipment at ports) last few years I wouldn't call it just as "catalytic converter" as on this size TDI's there is no "thing" that would do same stuff as catalytic converter does in gasoline car.
On gasoline engines, the emission control is through the catalytic converter (the internal honeycomb is made from platinum and palladium) that creates catalyst converting the hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide and water and also converts the nitrogen oxide back into nitrogen and oxygen.
On diesel depending the continents and engine cc's, the emission control can be either just SCR (selective catalytic reduction) or combination of DPF (diesel particulate filter) and SCR.
DPF and SCR requires ULSD diesel so these doesn't work on 3rd world countries with higher sulfur content..
Anyways, the DPF honeycomb traps the larger particles and the smaller particles are conveyed to SCR honeycomb together with DEF (diesel exhaust fluid here in States) / AdBlue (in Europe) to create chemical reaction resulting nitrogen and water vapor.
At some point the DPF becomes filled with particles and engine management will inject diesel fuel either directly (injector on front of DPF) or indirectly (cylinder injector spray timing while exhaust valve is still open) to burn off the soot and then convey those particles to SCR to process them as well.
The amount of water is far less than on gasoline engine with catalytic converter so I see no reason for weep hole.
Only time I see weep hole on SCR system is with vertical exhaust pointing upwards and the weep hole is used to drain the rain water that may rain in from vertical stack to prevent that amount entering to SCR, DPF and even to turbo. On horizontal lay-out there is no need for weep hole.
As gasoline car "catalytic converter" is more known to general public, by using just catalytic converter can easily create assumption those being same with gasoline and diesel while the detail of diesel requiring DEF as an catalyst to "ignite" the chemical reaction is left out of the context...
On the on-highway and off-highway equipment industry no one uses term catalytic converter and each is called with their own names , the DPF and the SCR.
On gasoline engines, the emission control is through the catalytic converter (the internal honeycomb is made from platinum and palladium) that creates catalyst converting the hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide and water and also converts the nitrogen oxide back into nitrogen and oxygen.
On diesel depending the continents and engine cc's, the emission control can be either just SCR (selective catalytic reduction) or combination of DPF (diesel particulate filter) and SCR.
DPF and SCR requires ULSD diesel so these doesn't work on 3rd world countries with higher sulfur content..
Anyways, the DPF honeycomb traps the larger particles and the smaller particles are conveyed to SCR honeycomb together with DEF (diesel exhaust fluid here in States) / AdBlue (in Europe) to create chemical reaction resulting nitrogen and water vapor.
At some point the DPF becomes filled with particles and engine management will inject diesel fuel either directly (injector on front of DPF) or indirectly (cylinder injector spray timing while exhaust valve is still open) to burn off the soot and then convey those particles to SCR to process them as well.
The amount of water is far less than on gasoline engine with catalytic converter so I see no reason for weep hole.
Only time I see weep hole on SCR system is with vertical exhaust pointing upwards and the weep hole is used to drain the rain water that may rain in from vertical stack to prevent that amount entering to SCR, DPF and even to turbo. On horizontal lay-out there is no need for weep hole.
As gasoline car "catalytic converter" is more known to general public, by using just catalytic converter can easily create assumption those being same with gasoline and diesel while the detail of diesel requiring DEF as an catalyst to "ignite" the chemical reaction is left out of the context...
On the on-highway and off-highway equipment industry no one uses term catalytic converter and each is called with their own names , the DPF and the SCR.
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Great video which explains how the adblue equipped TDIs work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bgusjGRP3XQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bgusjGRP3XQ
Guys I'm back to try to explain where the dealer drilled 2 holes in my 2008 (Gas V6) exhaust. There is one hole in each tailpipe just before getting to the "suitcase muffler" you have referred to. They are very small but it has now created somewhat of an aftermarket throatiness to the exhaust which I kind of like. I was shocked when I saw how much water was coming out of these holes when I first observed the Touareg running. When you look at the upward angle to this exhaust system and now seeing how much water drips from these holes I have to wonder if there has always been pooling here?? Folks I know short trips aren't the best for vehicles but we live in a hostile climate where it routinely got -20 to -35 Fahrenheit here this winter and my wife and I have relatively short trips to work. My 2004 Ford Fx4 F150 has never had this problem and nobody I have ever talked to about this has had a similar event. I just cannot believe a vehicle this expensive and "over engineered" can have this happen? That said, my wife still loves it and we may keep it for the 2013-2014 winter and see what happens but we will have a tough decision come April of 2014 because that is when our warranty is gone.
Guys,
The process of combustion produces water and carbon dioxide whether it is a candle on the table or a rocket engine launching a space craft as well as those IC engines we love. Catalytic converters and all those other post processing of exhaust gases are to deal with the small fractions of the mix that didn't complete the reaction in the combustion chamber. The unburned hydrocarbons that are "converted" (combusted) form a little more water and CO2. In very general terms - sort of a hip pocket estimate - a gallon of fuel will produce about a gallon of liquid water. The heat of combustion usually keeps the water in the vapor state except in very cold environments where dripping tailpipes are common. This is the first I have ever heard of an exhaust system freezing up and I live in northern NY. I have seen weep holes in mufflers before but I do not know about my 2010 TDI.
Bob
The process of combustion produces water and carbon dioxide whether it is a candle on the table or a rocket engine launching a space craft as well as those IC engines we love. Catalytic converters and all those other post processing of exhaust gases are to deal with the small fractions of the mix that didn't complete the reaction in the combustion chamber. The unburned hydrocarbons that are "converted" (combusted) form a little more water and CO2. In very general terms - sort of a hip pocket estimate - a gallon of fuel will produce about a gallon of liquid water. The heat of combustion usually keeps the water in the vapor state except in very cold environments where dripping tailpipes are common. This is the first I have ever heard of an exhaust system freezing up and I live in northern NY. I have seen weep holes in mufflers before but I do not know about my 2010 TDI.
Bob
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