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My reading shows that NOx increased as the H2 was increased - that makes it a big no-no in urban areas - same problem that makes diesel the devil.
 

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So, do you guys really think that using the alternator to power an electrolyzer to produce oxyhydrogen, then burning the oxyhydrogen in the combustion chamber to produce heat and WATER actually nets energy? As in, you start with water, and end with water + heat?

Or is the claim that you can somehow use this to get a more complete combustion of the diesel fuel by increasing the combustion temperature, and thus increase efficiency that way? Where the energy salvaged by the more efficient combustion is greater than the loss of the alternator, the electrolyzer, and the combustion process.

Option one violates the laws of thermodynamics.

Option two assumes that there's enough waste FUEL in the exhaust gas that increasing the combustion temperature would be reasonable and not damage anything. You can already directly achieve that to some degree through an ECU tune.

Either way, this is quackery, and I don't see an option three.
 

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Option 3 You could read my original post, but I will repeat it a little slower.

All Fuel, be it gasoline or diesel, burns at a certain rate.

This rate is to slow for complete combustion to take place during the power stroke.
Adding hho increases the rate of combustion so more power is generated during the above mentioned power stroke.
Faster burn = higher efficiency.

All “hydro“ carbons are burning hydrogen. The rate they burn is largely due to whatever is attached to the hydrogen. Whether its diesel, propane natural gas or cow **** Its hydrogen burning.

It really has nothing to do with the laws of thermodynamics.

Breaking those requires a better generator and a pwm (pulse width modifier) which produces a resonance and makes higher quality gas. Then you dont need any additional fuel besides the hho gas and can run on water alone. They still kill people who do that like Stan Meyer. But it is possible to run an internal combustion engine on water alone. Quite a few inventors have done so.
 

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Wow... just... wow.
I really want to avoid turning this into an ad hominem rant, but you make it really hard, so I'm just going to pick a few things you wrote to respond to directly and be done with this nonsense.

“hydro“ carbons
It's just hydrocarbons. You don't need the quotes.

It really has nothing to do with the laws of thermodynamics.
So the Otto Cycle has nothing to do with the fundamental laws on which it's defined? This is asinine.

those requires a better generator
The only "generator" in your system is the alternator of the car. Do you mean the electrolyzer?

pwm (pulse width modifier)
There is no such thing as a "pulse width modifier." I think you mean "Pulse Width Modulation." So are you using a direct current electrolyzer, or a pulsed electrolyzer? Do you understand the difference, or are you just trying to appear smart by using science-y sounding words you heard on some idiotic youtube video?

you dont need any additional fuel besides the hho gas and can run on water alone
How? Please explain the entire cycle for me because unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're describing a perpetual motion machine. You start with water, apply some energy to it (Ein) to get oxyhydrogen (which you insist on calling "HHO" for some reason), then you burn it which gives you the same amount of water you started with and some energy (Eout). By what you're describing Eout must be greater than Ein with no other changes in the system, which I hope you see is impossible. You don't get anything for free, so please explain what you give up to have Eout > Ein.

All that said, once you're rich from the wild success of your "HHO" project, I'd love to see you try and run your treg on a permanent magnet motor. I'm sure the dudes at Steorn could provide some expertise. Though I'm sure big oil and their government cronies will shut the whole thing down before you prove your success. /s
 

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Well then all the hho users will just keep going on breaking your laws with reckless abandon then ;)

Why not use your incredible brain to do some experimentation of your own so you too can Observe the results and stop sounding like a lawyer with a physics textbook. I believe animus nocendi does apply, as you have no intention of answering the original posters question.

To the original poster, Thanks for starting this thread. I will definitely get back with some fuel consumption numbers after a few fill ups.
 

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It's not free energy, it's accessing potential energy that has been introduced.
Adding more fuel.
The only impediment is the cost of making that energy available.

It's my understanding that it takes a lot of electricity to produce HHO which would be a strain on the cars onboard alternator and battery.
It produces a lot of heat too.

Obviously some systems will be more efficient than others and the only way to improve efficiency is to get out there and use the equipment.

To shed some light on the question of thermodynamics; a nuclear reactor produces a lot more power than it takes to start the reaction.

I'm pretty sure that HHO doesn't effect the rate of burn, that's what they said about LPG injected diesel and it's not true. Any gain with an LPG injected diesel is simply the addition of extra fuel that is cheaper than diesel.

The very expensive high octane petrol actually burns SLOWER to prevent detonation allow the engine to run at a higher compression and more advanced timing which leads to overall better engine efficiency.

Regarding Mythbusters: It's a very rare occasion that I don't find a fault with their scientific methods. I remember the HHO episode but I don't really recall what the fault was if any.

Why don't manufacturers use it?
Easy, it's a cumbersome setup. Manufacturers don't use water injection and we know that does work.
 

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I recently found a video online where they explode a ballon that has pure hydrogen in it and another with hho. The 100% hydrogen burned slower than the hho because it took time for it to mingle with the atmospheric oxygen. The hho ballon actually flashed like a lightbulb before the ballon even expanded.

Mixed with a fuel like gas or diesel it will speed up the burn rate of the fuel and/or because Im not sure. The hho may light up the fuel with a larger/faster flame front. This is one of the reasons ignition timing is so critical.

In my VW 2.4L 5cyl diesel I was able to find the pre ignition point by simple turning up the amperage on the PWM. I did this by mistake thinking more is better and had some serious clacking as I ran to turn it down again.

The alternator on my van is 120amps and the B3 cell I use takes about 12 amps. So its not a huge load.

Later designed generators and PWMs are more efficient. Also, there are different types of hydrogen made. If you search for ortho hydrogen you will find good info on hho generators that produce 4x more powerful gas than simply putting an anode and cathode in an electrolytic solution.

search for Bob Boyce or Hydrogen Garage. They've been doing this for at least 10 years that I know of.
 

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It's not free energy, it's accessing potential energy that has been introduced.
That's not what TommyBoyee was claiming. Please re-read his post where he claims this:
you dont need any additional fuel besides the hho gas and can run on water alone

a nuclear reactor produces a lot more power than it takes to start the reaction
This is actually true! But you neglected to mention that it consumes mass through fission to produce that energy (you know... e=mc^2). You don't get anything for free and there's no accounting for the energy gained in this "HHO" system.
 

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I finally managed to finish the install, recalibrated the Volo16 and went for a spin. Initial Dyno run shows improvement and the mileage is at 14.9L/100. Base was 17.3. The computer is still adapting for another 100km. I will continue to update... :)
 

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The max continuous amp draw on the PWM is 20 amps. The highest duty cycle I have mapped was 60% at 6000rpm down to 15% at idle. So 3 to 12 amps
 
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