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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I've been following this forum for some time now as I've considered getting a Touareg TDI for towing abilities and the extended warranty and have had numerous VWs and Audis with good success in the past. Purchased a '12 Touareg TDI back in March with 70K miles on it and wow did I not know what I was getting myself into.

Everything revolves around two error codes: P20EE and P207F, both for Adblue catalyst efficiency. These came on shortly after purchasing the car. Very, very long story short, the car has been at the dealer pretty much since April. They've given it back four times, and each time the error codes have returned the same day. So far, the only things they have replaced is the Adblue heater, the fluid and the ECM (!?!?). Currently, they've had the car for a month now and are saying they have no idea what's wrong with it.

I've reached out to VW corporate but so far they've been no help. I'm at the point now where clearly the dealer has no idea what the h$%?! they're doing and am ready to take it back to fix myself (have a lot of experience with VAG cars) or take to a competent diesel mechanic (if anyone knows of a good one in the Maryland area, please let me know). Has anyone else been in this position before, or had these codes surface? I'm at the end of my rope. Could this be class action time? What good is a warranty if they just take the car for four months and don't fix it?

Thanks for any assistance,
Woody
 

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It could be a damaged or clogged catalyst, a problem with the AdBlue injector or pump, or a problem with the sensors themselves reporting false data. Did the car have turbo issues in its past (even possibly before you got it)?
 

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Is there any other dealer you can use the next time this happens? If so, take the car to a different dealer. This sounds like a bad dealer service experience.
 

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Easiest course might be to take it to another dealer, see what your experience is there. A Porsche dealership may be an option, although I'm not sure if they can bill VWoA directly or you have to be re-imbursed.
Hi all,

I've been following this forum for some time now as I've considered getting a Touareg TDI for towing abilities and the extended warranty and have had numerous VWs and Audis with good success in the past. Purchased a '12 Touareg TDI back in March with 70K miles on it and wow did I not know what I was getting myself into.

Everything revolves around two error codes: P20EE and P207F, both for Adblue catalyst efficiency. These came on shortly after purchasing the car. Very, very long story short, the car has been at the dealer pretty much since April. They've given it back four times, and each time the error codes have returned the same day. So far, the only things they have replaced is the Adblue heater, the fluid and the ECM (!?!?). Currently, they've had the car for a month now and are saying they have no idea what's wrong with it.

I've reached out to VW corporate but so far they've been no help. I'm at the point now where clearly the dealer has no idea what the h$%?! they're doing and am ready to take it back to fix myself (have a lot of experience with VAG cars) or take to a competent diesel mechanic (if anyone knows of a good one in the Maryland area, please let me know). Has anyone else been in this position before, or had these codes surface? I'm at the end of my rope. Could this be class action time? What good is a warranty if they just take the car for four months and don't fix it?

Thanks for any assistance,
Woody
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No turbo issues as far as I know. Interesting you should ask? And the Adblue doesn’t seem to be all that complex of a system, which adds to the frustration of why they can’t seem to fix it after four tries

The problem is the three closest dealers are all under the same umbrella, so we’re a little stuck unless we travel further. Also, VW customer care has said to keep it at the same dealer since they “have experience with this car and it’s issues” (not too much apparently). If someone has had a good experience with a dealer in MD I’d happily drive there though. But then there’s the problem that this dealer has had the car a month now and are saying they have “no idea” how long before it’s fixed. But again, if anyone has a better dealer they can suggest, I’d go take it tomorrow and move it there.

Apologies if I sound frustrated, it’s just been such a long ordeal. And plus they stuck us with a base Jetta the first few times and only upgraded us to a base Tiguan when we complained about space.
 

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It's a frustrating situation, so it's natural to sound frustrated. You can talk to the service manager or tech, ask if they are getting all the resources they need, as it seems the entire system can be replaced in less than a month. Approach it from a point of trying to help them.
That's definitely the downside of the Touareg- service at the dealer won't get you anything close to what you have, comfort and feature wise. The Tiguans are great vehicles, but they feel plasticy and spares next to a Touareg. If it helps, they usually just hand out loaners based on whats available. It's typically not a snub. But even an Atlas SEL while having a much better Radio, does not compare favorably in comfort or feel to a Touareg. My $.02
 

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No turbo issues as far as I know. Interesting you should ask?
It's because if the turbo is or has been leaking oil into the exhaust, that could have damaged and even clogged up the catalytic converter, which in turn could very well result in these fault codes
 

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Any chance of getting your money back under any consumer protection law and walking away?

Here in the UK the dealer gets just one chance to fix it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It's a frustrating situation, so it's natural to sound frustrated. You can talk to the service manager or tech, ask if they are getting all the resources they need, as it seems the entire system can be replaced in less than a month. Approach it from a point of trying to help them.
That's definitely the downside of the Touareg- service at the dealer won't get you anything close to what you have, comfort and feature wise. The Tiguans are great vehicles, but they feel plasticy and spares next to a Touareg. If it helps, they usually just hand out loaners based on whats available. It's typically not a snub. But even an Atlas SEL while having a much better Radio, does not compare favorably in comfort or feel to a Touareg. My $.02
Very true about the service. Makes me wish I had gone for the Audi Q7 TDI as the experiences I've had at Audi dealers has always been astronomically better.

The thing is, while four months is rather absurd, if they were honestly trying to fix the issue I'd have 100% more patience. But up until our getting VW customer care involved, they were extremely obnoxious in tone, not giving us updates on the situation, and refusing to return calls. A service manager basically said "well, you bought this overly-complicated car, so it takes time to figure out since we don't have any TDI mechanics" (seriously blew my mind that he would say that). Last trip, after nearly a month, we called to check in and they had basically forgotten about the car and had not even pulled it in the shop to look at yet. At this point, they're saying they're "talking to VW", but after another month I'm just starting to give up, and plus I need it for towing soon.

Am pretty much ready to take the car home, pay $2-3K or so to buy a whole new set of Adblue system components and swap it all out myself. The problem is the pesky "600 miles to no-start" so I'd have to fix the issue quick. I have VCDS to run the adaptations, and I got all the service docs off of erwin, so I'm prepped if I need to, but come on, it's under warranty so I shouldn't have to!
 

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Talking to the service guys at my VW dealer, I guess TDI/Touareg mechanics aren't at every dealer. They were telling me they get alot of the buy-back and stop-sale Tregs through there that then get shipped all over the country. I have no way of verifying if they're 'special' or not. They've also said other local VW dealers farm out TDI work to them. So it's entirely possible they're not familiar with TDIs or Touaregs, but if they follow the guided troubleshooting, they should arrive at a solution. I'm surprised they haven't brought in a specialist or are working with an expert from VW corporate.
Service wise, I really don't have any complaints. If I have time, I do the service myself, but I use them if I don't have time or for warranty issues.
In no case would I say blaming their customer for buying their product is a rational excuse, much less helpful. You can try talking to a local shop, see if they know where you can get good warranty service.

The best bet is probably replacing the NOx sensor and the DEF injector. I would think they would do that first. My guess is they are just resetting the SCR system and not performing the road test.

If you were going to spend $2K-$3K, I'd suggest you buy an SCR delete tune. But you gotta do what you gotta do. Talk to VW corporate about them paying for the rental of a Diesel capable of towing- which pretty much leaves a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton from Enterprise Trucks. They may move a little faster if they know they'll need to foot the bill for a rental.

Agreed you shouldn't have to. I dunno what the resolution is beyond trying to find a trained TDI tech that can perform warranty work.

Very true about the service. Makes me wish I had gone for the Audi Q7 TDI as the experiences I've had at Audi dealers has always been astronomically better.

The thing is, while four months is rather absurd, if they were honestly trying to fix the issue I'd have 100% more patience. But up until our getting VW customer care involved, they were extremely obnoxious in tone, not giving us updates on the situation, and refusing to return calls. A service manager basically said "well, you bought this overly-complicated car, so it takes time to figure out since we don't have any TDI mechanics" (seriously blew my mind that he would say that). Last trip, after nearly a month, we called to check in and they had basically forgotten about the car and had not even pulled it in the shop to look at yet. At this point, they're saying they're "talking to VW", but after another month I'm just starting to give up, and plus I need it for towing soon.

Am pretty much ready to take the car home, pay $2-3K or so to buy a whole new set of Adblue system components and swap it all out myself. The problem is the pesky "600 miles to no-start" so I'd have to fix the issue quick. I have VCDS to run the adaptations, and I got all the service docs off of erwin, so I'm prepped if I need to, but come on, it's under warranty so I shouldn't have to!
 

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These codes are very likely caused by a lack of Adblue being injected.

I just fixed this problem on my 2012 Audi Q7. Adblue injector and the hole it sits in were obstructed by crystalized DEF. Took me less than 1/2 hour in my driveway to clean and reinstall.

If you dealer has not pulled the injector and inspected and cleaned it....they are morons and should find a new job asking if you would like fries with your meal..


Hi all,

I've been following this forum for some time now as I've considered getting a Touareg TDI for towing abilities and the extended warranty and have had numerous VWs and Audis with good success in the past. Purchased a '12 Touareg TDI back in March with 70K miles on it and wow did I not know what I was getting myself into.

Everything revolves around two error codes: P20EE and P207F, both for Adblue catalyst efficiency. These came on shortly after purchasing the car. Very, very long story short, the car has been at the dealer pretty much since April. They've given it back four times, and each time the error codes have returned the same day. So far, the only things they have replaced is the Adblue heater, the fluid and the ECM (!?!?). Currently, they've had the car for a month now and are saying they have no idea what's wrong with it.

I've reached out to VW corporate but so far they've been no help. I'm at the point now where clearly the dealer has no idea what the h$%?! they're doing and am ready to take it back to fix myself (have a lot of experience with VAG cars) or take to a competent diesel mechanic (if anyone knows of a good one in the Maryland area, please let me know). Has anyone else been in this position before, or had these codes surface? I'm at the end of my rope. Could this be class action time? What good is a warranty if they just take the car for four months and don't fix it?

Thanks for any assistance,
Woody
Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well if anyone knows of a good dealer for TDI warranty work or even an independent TDI tech in the MD area, please let me know!

I've been reading up on the issues and the system itself and I've seen the crystallized adblue problem hinted at numerous times. I would certainly check it out if/when I get the car back. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

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You can call Reydel VW in Edison NJ. They may be able to suggest someone, or give your guys some pointers. Prolly a longer drive than you want to make.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks, I may give them a call.

Seriously thinking about picking the car up soon and switching to another dealer. Before taking to another dealer, I may spend some time with vcds running some diagnostics to see if I can pinpoint the issue. As for this countdown to doom on the dash, does anyone know if it will be cleared if the problem is fixed or will reset with the vcds scr adaptations?
 

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I'm not sure yours will go into no restart. It depends on the emissions version. But yes, it should be cleared if the if the issue is cleared. You may need to add more DEF, but part of the guided diagnostics is resetting the system.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Gotcha, well it says "--- miles to no start" but not sure if that means it actually won't start. Don't care to find out!

Also, off topic, but do you recommend fuel additive? I've seen the Liqui-Moly additive around but don't know if it's the best or recommended.
 

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Agreed, I wouldn't bet more than a warm beer on it.
I use LM Diesel Purge with every fuel filter change and change the fuel filter at least every other oil change- which is twice as often as necessary. Pull the old filter, suction the Diesel in the filter housing out, place the new filter in, fill the housing with Diesel Purge and button it up. Pour the rest of the Diesel Purge and suctioned Diesel in the tank. Done.
I run LM SuperDiesel at least at every oil change; more often when I remember. Just dump 1.5-2 cans in when filling the tank. Lots of goodness for your Diesel fuel system in there. They do have a CR pump specific lube additive but I haven't used that- SuperDiesel has lube in it.
I would highly recommend a Fumoto valve on the oil pan and 2 cans of LM Pro-Line engine flush before every change. The Fumoto valve drains all the oil out- I checked- especially if you use car ramps. The LM Engine Flush just requires the engine warm and idle it for 10-15 minutes right before the oil change. You don't have to worry about losing any oil effectiveness while driving with thinner oil for a couple hundred miles and it gives your engine a serious clean out.
I do tend to be on the fan boi side of LM. In my experience their products do exactly what they say they will.
Gotcha, well it says "--- miles to no start" but not sure if that means it actually won't start. Don't care to find out!

Also, off topic, but do you recommend fuel additive? I've seen the Liqui-Moly additive around but don't know if it's the best or recommended.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the info! Can't blame you on the LM fanboy-ness. I've always had great experience with their products. I've always used Ceratec in my Euro gas engines with phenomenal results (tested and found massive drop in wear on the pesky fuel pump cam follower in my old MKV GTI). Is that good to use in TDI engines? Hope it doesn't interfere with any emissions-related stuff like the DPF. Finding these things to be a bit sensitive compared to gassers needless to say lol
 

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I put Ceratec in on the last oil change and it seemed smoother. I'm going back and forth on how to keep going with it- use it on every oil change or switch it out with MoS2 as they suggest. Any thoughts?
I noticed an instant smoothness to the engine after using Ceratec for the first time at 40K. Like a big heavy wool blanket was thrown over the engine. I seemed to pick up 1, maybe 2 mpg but that's hard to pin down. LM says it's specifically designed for newer engines, including TDIs. Specifically designed NOT to interfere with emissions, unlike MoS2, which is why I'm reluctant to switch in MoS2.
Eh. You have 120K miles on the Engine and EPA bits. I figure anything will show up in that time. DEF is fuels-system only- oil doesn't really affect that. DPF is collection of unburnt soot and has more to do with WOT throttle jaunts than oil. The CNRB engines are pretty well sorted. Not sure what you mean by sensitive.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Always use Ceratec every 25k miles on mine, so every 5 oil changes going by 5K OCI. Per my experience with the cam follower, it does in fact adhere to the internals and lasts well more than one oil change.

Maybe sensitive isn’t the right word. Just a lot of complexity in the emissions components compared to gas and a delicate balance I don’t want to upset. Btw ours is actually only 70K miles and it is a 2012 so it has the gen 1 CATA 3.0 tdi. The SCR catalyst has less than 10k on it though as it was replaced as part of the gen 1 3.0 TDI fix.
 
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