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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am trying to find technical information regarding the tire rating system in regard to performance, other than the high speed rating.

I am curious if you had a choice between a particular tire in H rated or V rated, what would you pick and why...if price and wear were similar.

Does the higher rated tire perform better? Is it invariably stiffer, does it grip better under stress conditions? Is it safer under normal driving conditions?

I look forward to comments!
 

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Here's the procedure that's used:

Performance Requirements

Speed rating is more a measure of a tire's build and component quality (in a lab setting) than of its actual handling characteristics. Given a choice between H (130mph) and V (149mph), the speed rating would be probably the least important characteristic I'd consider when choosing between two tires for a Treg. If I was buying tires for, say, a 911 that spends a lot of time at the track, yea, it would definitely be a consideration, but for your average car, as long as it isn't ridiculously low (implying poor build quality and possibly poor performance), it shouldn't concern one overmuch.
 

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I think the H is all I'd ever need, but, just in case if I'll be involved in high-speed-chase-agent-007-type of run I might like to have 149 MPH rated tires! :D Seriously... I would guess that the V tires are stiffer than H, but I do not think that this can be noticeable in a fashion other than with some specialized measurement tools. Based on the CT info, most Touareg owners replacing tires every 25K-30K miles which amounts in my case to approximately 2 years, so the only what I care about is the tire driving quality - such as handling, resistance to hydroplaning, etc. And the speed rating comes to the equation even less important than tire looks - i.e. too unimportant to be a significant factor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Here's the procedure that's used:

Performance Requirements

Speed rating is more a measure of a tire's build and component quality (in a lab setting) than of its actual handling characteristics. Given a choice between H (130mph) and V (149mph), the speed rating would be probably the least important characteristic I'd consider when choosing between two tires for a Treg. If I was buying tires for, say, a 911 that spends a lot of time at the track, yea, it would definitely be a consideration, but for your average car, as long as it isn't ridiculously low (implying poor build quality and possibly poor performance), it shouldn't concern one overmuch.
So, CB62,
discounting the high speed part of the equation, would you think that a V rated tire might be a slightly better performer with road handling maneuvers or on snaking curves, or in a high speed emergency braking event as compared to the same tire in and H rating?

Again, i am not interested in how fast a tire will safely go....I'm too old for that at this point. I seem to recall that in the early days of tire ratings, manufacturers had a more verbal push to get the customer to purchase higher rated tires based on performance...other than simply high speed alone.

If there were a slightly better performance, wouldn't you choose the better performing tire?
 

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The V rated tire will actually wear faster due to it being more of a grip type tire as well as high speed running tire. I would not invest in a set for a Touareg if it were me. I remember going through sets of V rated tires like crazy on a supercharged Thunderbird I once owned regardless if abused or not. I was averaging 13K miles a set in that car. It was on it's third set when I sold it with only 27K original miles on it.
 

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Anyone that drove a Rabbit GTI in the mid 80's with pirelli p6's knows what sticky tires are with high speed ratings, and how fast they wear.
 

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I was always told that the higher the rating the better the tire is overall. This dosent seem to be the case anymore. The Khumos i have on the T-reg are okay they grip no where near as hard as the Michelins i use to have on it. As far as speed rating goes its electronically limited to 130 mph so doesent really matter there. I would say if it dosent get in to triple digits speed for extended periods of time and you dont charge mountain roads like its a GTI in extreme heat you should be fine with a H rated tire.
 

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grip is inversely related to tread life, not so much to speed rating (which is really what H and V are). Grippier tires wear out faster as the rubber is softer.

ASAIK, the biggest difference in speed rating is in the construction of the carcass of the tire (aka - the innards). Higher speeds generate more heat, so the tire needs to be less susceptible to heat build up and have a stouter construction. The cap on the tire (aka - the tread) could be the same, made out of the same compounds and last the same length of time across H and V tires.
 

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grip is inversely related to tread life, not so much to speed rating (which is really what H and V are). Grippier tires wear out faster as the rubber is softer.

ASAIK, the biggest difference in speed rating is in the construction of the carcass of the tire (aka - the innards). Higher speeds generate more heat, so the tire needs to be less susceptible to heat build up and have a stouter construction. The cap on the tire (aka - the tread) could be the same, made out of the same compounds and last the same length of time across H and V tires.
Yep, this is almost exactly the case - if you look at the testing methodology, it's all about sustained high-speed runs, which stresses the internal components of the tire. The fact that the cap of most high-speed rated tires is sticky is more about achieving a high traction score - it has nothing to do with the speed rating per se. That being said, since the construction of high speed rated tires is generally more robust, they tend to have slightly better handling characteristics outside of traction due to stiffer sidewalls and better between-ply adhesive specs.
 

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So, CB62,
discounting the high speed part of the equation, would you think that a V rated tire might be a slightly better performer with road handling maneuvers or on snaking curves, or in a high speed emergency braking event as compared to the same tire in and H rating?

Again, i am not interested in how fast a tire will safely go....I'm too old for that at this point. I seem to recall that in the early days of tire ratings, manufacturers had a more verbal push to get the customer to purchase higher rated tires based on performance...other than simply high speed alone.

If there were a slightly better performance, wouldn't you choose the better performing tire?
Yes, I would imagine slightly better performance for each increment up the speed rating you go. I doubt it would be noticeable for a change of 1 increment though, say, H to V. Much of the verbal push to get customers to buy speed ratings far in excess of their needs is about $$$ and not performance.

Would I prefer better performance? Absolutely.
Would I pay a hefty premium for performance I'll never use? Nope!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks to all for giving thoughts on this question. I am about to order a set of tires for my Treg and am contemplating which rating to go with as ...I mentioned price is not an issue. Perhaps with the Treg history with poor tire wear I had better stick with the H rated version.
I appreciate all of your efforts in the discussion. If others have further thoughts, please fell free to include them. It will be a few days yet before I need to order.

Oh yeah...I once had a set of Pirelli P-Zero Rosso's when they first came out...on a GTI and I virtually watched them evaporate before my eyes! Probably before some of you were born...
 

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Thanks to all for giving thoughts on this question. I am about to order a set of tires for my Treg and am contemplating which rating to go with as ...I mentioned price is not an issue. Perhaps with the Treg history with poor tire wear I had better stick with the H rated version.
I appreciate all of your efforts in the discussion. If others have further thoughts, please fell free to include them. It will be a few days yet before I need to order.

Oh yeah...I once had a set of Pirelli P-Zero Rosso's when they first came out...on a GTI and I virtually watched them evaporate before my eyes! Probably before some of you were born...
Which two tires are you looking at? Maybe someone has some experience with the sets you're considering - which would likely be more useful than comparing the speed ratings! ;)

The OE Scorpion Verdes are crap - after 6000 miles the wear is blatantly obvious...
 

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Treadwear is related to tread wear rating not speed rating though some/most higher speed rated tires have worse ratings than a similar lower rated tire Primacy H versus V.

I once put a T rated tire on my Honda, rated for an H rated tire. I had a H rated tire prior( I went T for a higher tredwear rating) I hated the t and took it back for the H and had the same crisp steering , less wandering ride I had before. Always go with recommended speed rating or higher . I drive 35k a year for last 15 years have had many different rated tires. Always happy with a V rated tire at least in an premium all season which is what I use. Higher speed rating does make a noticable difference in higher end tires, JMO.

Turanza T to H noticable difference
Primacy H to V noticable difference
Assurance H to Assurance V "" "" I have driven these 6 tires, some where on the car when I bought it and wore them out, some where my mistake like the Turanza
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
cb62, I'd rather not get into specific brands. I am trying to keep the discussion theoretical across the board as there are a number of fans for various brands here. I do have my own favorites based on my prior experience.

Again, it's the construction of the performance levels I am trying to sort out.

warminwisco, thanks for your experience and thoughts on rating differences. I tend to agree with the thinking that the higher rated tire will have a (somewhat) better feel. I may give up a little in mileage with the higher rating.

Since I'm currently running on an H rated tire, I may go up to the next level to compare. My current tires have worn very well and evenly. I haven't been disappointed.
 

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I feel it is a diservice to the goal of sorting out tires to say "I do not plan on driving that fast" Often the higher speed rated tires are but a few dollars more or less i.e. Primacy v versus H. I never found d a higher speed rated tire felt jarring bumps more or made the car feel twitchy, on the contrary was always a positive experience. The Turanza mistake, I put the T's on my minivan as it was rated for T's and thought "it is a great tire on my Caravan I will get more miles on my honda" opened my eyes. The poor Firestone dealer, those tires sat in the waiting area with a discounted price on them for months. A good, smart tire dealer will not put a tire on rated for less than the car was made for.
 

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To cut to the quick, applications are really the key. The easiest thing to do (money being no object) are to have and use multiple sets (4 each = 1 set) of T/R combinations. This way one can get the appropriate wear for intended application and conditions.

Another issue seems to be that of the three tire sizes, (18 in (Sport) 19 in (Lux) 20 in (Exec) ) the latter two sizes seem to (structurally) wear much faster than the smallest size (18 in.) That is with the higher UTQG ratings. Since I swag that most (67%) of the Touareg fleet are the 19 in and 20 in sizes, this is a common structural issue.

As an example the third rated OE tire (GY LS2's) on 18 in rims get app 14,500 to 15,000 miles per 1/32nd in of wear. So at 31,000 miles there is ever so slightly less than 8/32nd in of thread left. They start with 10/32nd in of tread and even have a lower UTQG (400) rating than so called oe crap "faster wearing"(UTQG 600) tires, albeit larger diameter sizes. I would also swag that if VW engineers kept the 17 in tires they would wear better still.
 

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To cut to the quick, applications are really the key. The easiest thing to do (money being no object) are to have and use multiple sets (4 each = 1 set) of T/R combinations. This way one can get the appropriate wear for intended application and conditions.

Another issue seems to be that of the three tire sizes, (18 in (Sport) 19 in (Lux) 20 in (Exec) ) the latter two sizes seem to (structurally) wear much faster than the smallest size (18 in.) That is with the higher UTQG ratings. Since I swag that most (67%) of the Touareg fleet are the 19 in and 20 in sizes, this is a common structural issue.

As an example the third rated OE tire (GY LS2's) on 18 in rims get app 14,500 to 15,000 miles per 1/32nd in of wear. So at 31,000 miles there is ever so slightly less than 8/32nd in of thread left. They start with 10/32nd in of tread and even have a lower UTQG (400) rating than so called oe crap "faster wearing"(UTQG 600) tires, albeit larger diameter sizes. I would also swag that if VW engineers kept the 17 in tires they would wear better still.
I am more inclined to believe that the ratio is 40/40/20 for Execs, Lux, and Sports.... VW accountants like to make lots of money on all the loaded up optioned versions, and provide sports just to say touaregs "start at $42,000" for marketing purposes.
 

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From what I know about tires... or tyres! (Nooby) V speed rating verses H rating. A V rated tire is not stiffer... It is usually a lower profile of sidewall to help reduce wall flex which in turn reduces heat buildup when at max speed. Since this tire has less sidewall flex it transfers more energy from the road to other components such as suspension, chassis, etc... which seems like it is stiffer.
So a V rated tire will have a thinner, lower sidewall compared to a H rated tire. Usually they are also more expensive due to marketing hype that manufactures apply. This is very very subjective depending on the tire manufacture. Compounds will also play a factor. Again, like anything else in the world, you must do your research and not get swayed by the rubbish that the marketing dept tries to push.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
From what I know about tires... or tyres! (Nooby) V speed rating verses H rating. A V rated tire is not stiffer... It is usually a lower profile of sidewall to help reduce wall flex which in turn reduces heat buildup when at max speed. Since this tire has less sidewall flex it transfers more energy from the road to other components such as suspension, chassis, etc... which seems like it is stiffer.
So a V rated tire will have a thinner, lower sidewall compared to a H rated tire. Usually they are also more expensive due to marketing hype that manufactures apply. This is very very subjective depending on the tire manufacture. Compounds will also play a factor. Again, like anything else in the world, you must do your research and not get swayed by the rubbish that the marketing dept tries to push.
I'm sorry but my question states that the 2 tires would be the same size, section and indistinguishable visually, so lower sidewall doesn't apply to the question. I also stated that price was not a differential. I am asking if anyone has knowledge of the internal structure and/or composition of the tire that would make it better for everyday driving. Thoughts about my driving at 150 mph for sustained time isn't part of my question either.

Again, if you had two identical sets of new tires before you to choose from; one H rated and one V rated..and they were free, which set would you take and why?
 
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