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· My God,it's full of stars
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All of these have to be taken with a LARGE grain of salt. The JD Power Awards etc. are ... what they are, I'm not sure how much they influence a car buyer other than if you want one and buy one it's like wetting yourself in a dark suit, gives you a warm feeling but no one notices.

For anyone considering a Treg, they should note a scarcity of (competent) dealers to handle repairs, cost of parts, no or very few VAR parts available and horrific cost of parts. Lastly the new series bears little resemblance and off road capability to the T1s and T2s. But I do like the headlights.... :)

It's a great car, but let's keep it in perspective.

siberian
 

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Ahh Sibeiran you're just bitter from your recent experience with the fuse :)

On the dealer thing it all depends where you live, there are 5 dealers within a 1 hour drive of me, 4 of them are very competent at what they do (1 offers great deals so its ok that their service sucks)

Parts availability and pricing is the same or better than that of the X5, ML, Q7 or Cayenne..certainly more expensive that Honyotas and the like but you gotta pay to play.
 

· My God,it's full of stars
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No not really. The recent problem could have happened to any car, the difficulty in finding or ID'ing the cause and location is what it is. It was an observation that given personal and other experiences members have had with their dealers places mine as more relevant than the few who actually have competent dealers. Quantity of dealers does not equal quality of dealers.

Next, the scarcity of VAR parts etc. is what it is, non existent (see remote start kits...) and prices as in any monopoly reflects this.

The awards are meaningless. See a 300C got a styling award from JD Power one year? How much does this really influence a buyer who would otherwise already have decided to buy a particular car? Or how would a JD Power Award make me buy a vehicle I'm not interested in? Not likely.

What is key is folks understand the true COST of ownership once your warranty expires How well does your service dept. diagnose and fix items? The AdBlue problems in new vehicles? Terry's V6 problem? Sure all cars have faults, but you have a plethora of dealers in Japanese and other makes, you scarcely have dealers in KS let alone AK. My dad has a Lexus, and let me tell you, it's a whole new UNIVERSE in terms of customer satisfaction etc. than dealing with VW who really should concentrate on selling Jettas until they can step up to a 100k V8TDi which they won't be able to service since they hardly sell any and have no hands on experience.

Don't get me wrong, I did state that though the LR has some appeal, I still love my 2 Tregs, but it's different when you do your own work and another when you are on a tight budget and rely on a dealer. Sort of like 0 equity mortgages. It's all fine until...

siberian
 

· My God,it's full of stars
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The reliability is more linked to a lack of qualified dealers (Nick notwithstanding). The recent post of a V10 owner who diagnosed himself the cause preventing a turbo replacement is but one of many. The volume of sales is so low that there is hardly any hands on experience. So an extended warranty is a must for those who don't do the work themselves. Other than that it's no better or worse than most but what you do get is certainly more than whatever else is out there for a comparable price.

Always remember you can end up with a lemon with any car. If you want it and can afford the extended warranty go for it. If not, find something else.

Good luck

siberian
 

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I don't think dealers have anything to do with the bad reliability...the two '04s I had both had all the common problems, I wanted to drive my '04 V6 off a cliff it was such a POS.

My '07 had the flapper problem (like your V8 does). Its a problem VW themselves haven't solved so I don't see where the dealer suck. They replace the parts and the parts are still not working correctly...that's not a dealer problem its a VW problem

My '09 TDI had a water pump failure (like the rest of them did)..what does the dealer have to do with that? they put bad pumps in all of them and its well known. VW towed it in on their dime and the dealer replaced it just fine.

Certainly my area isn't the only one with reasonably competent dealers, I've had great service at Quirk VW while I spent a period of time in Boston, and a few years back Koeppel VW in Queen's NY was great for the couple times I've brought it in there.

Its easy to say that dealers suck (sure some of them do)...but just like you can't get your Corvette properly serviced at every Chev dealer, you can't get great Touareg service at every VW dealer.
 

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The reliability is more linked to a lack of qualified dealers (Nick notwithstanding). siberian
You are soooooo correct on that comment. Owning a non-European Treg (you live outside of Europe like the US and Australia) is throwing up the same "I'm pissed off" threads down here. Dealers who cannot effectively diagnose and rectify a fault 1st time is the issue. VAG have not done too well outside of Europe with building their brand and their customer relations.
 

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So which of the following well known flaws are a dealer problem (I can't believe I'm siding with the stealers on this one):

-cracking wood trim
-propshaft failure
-waterpumps leaking and blowing up on TDIs
-04s with a remote control that won't work unless you're 3" away from the vehicle
-stepper motor issues
-corroding air suspension fittings
-flapper motor issues with the FSI V8s
-stuck middle seatbelt in the rear seat which locks your seatback down until you replace the whole mechanism.
-disgusting and costly interior button peel
-stupid sunroof drains clogging and rotting out your interior
-the dreaded transmission hard downshift, which while temporarily fixed by a new valve body ultimately always needs a new tranny
-the endless turbo problems with the V10s (yeah there's the C clip thing, but mine and many others barfing oil everywhere thru its seals had nothing to do with a C clip)

there are a couple more but I can't see how I can point the finger at the stealer for any of those?
 

· My God,it's full of stars
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Nick, I don't want to belabor the point but I can't even begin to give you a percentage of owners on this forum who say they are satisfied with the dealer being able to service their vehicles vs those who've had theirs in the shop time and time again.

Of course a cracked trim, or peeling knob or whatever else you mentioned is not the dealer's fault and I doubt ANYONE here has ever complained about those items. It's the turbo issues, my variable intake motors YES it IS the dealer fault when the new replaced motors CLEARLY STATE: REPLACE INTAKE MANIFOLD AT SAME TIME AS and they don't do it. When they can't give you a correct warranty date, when they misdiagnose a faulty cable by telling the customer they need a new alternator. THOSE are the issues folks here complain about. I doubt anyone here has blamed a dealer for a peeling knob. What I do blame the dealer is when you make an appointment months earlier, your drive 400 miles and the part is not there and you have to do it yourself in the end.

VW has made little effort to sell Touaregs and shops have little experience with them. I'm taking both of my Tregs in for their last service since it seems we have FINALLY agreed as to what the in service dates were (hard for a dealer to not find that but they gave me the wrong info for the V6 which they sold). The V6 gets flat bedded (I get to fly down and pick it up) and then the V8 goes in for a manifold change and yes I get to fly back up and fly back down when it's ready.

After that we're done with the dealer. What I do know is that I won't buy any vehicle again that has anything to do with this one.

Peace,

siberian
 

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Post #9 - The brand relationship must always work on customer - dealer - import entity (VWoA for Nth America and VGA for Australia). The breakdown is where the import entity fails to effectively support the fault. I'd agree your post is correct with the dealers being often caught in the middle with a flaw in design or parts. Hyundai did something really remarkable and built a decent brand. They now build decent vehicles, offer very good warranty and have an effective support network. VW here have not done the bit about warranty and support network, Same situation over your way I'd suspect. If there's a problem with a part, VW must cover it till it's fixed, warranty or otherwise. It's either a recall or a 'campaign' to get the fix till it works. VW seem to have a problem with that concept at the HQ level of where their loyalties lie. VW are about to be No1 globally in sales. Treg's are a low volume seller in the VW stable, it's not where the $'s are being generated. It's a premium vehicle and is not treated they way Lexus treat their premium offering. IMO, corporate VW seems detached from the cash register to consistent customer satisfaction, no matter what the model or purchase price. I'd agree that most manufacturers have their fair share of technical and design failures from time-to-time. It's not the fix that is the pressing need, but the way it's managed to ensure customer satisfaction.
 

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So while I agree dealers misdiagnose issues and that IS frustrating, this tangent started with lizardking's post. He's right when he says the Treg has a bad reliability history and that laundry list of problems I mentioned is the bulk of complaints that you'll read about on this site. The bad reliability ratings are directly related to those very common failures. So IMO the bad reliability rap is well deserved.

On the dealer thing I think we've all had this conversation before but I am convinced that VW's entire dealer network cannot all be incompetent. There is some sort of systematic issue with how VW supports and regulates their dealers, and some sort of systematic issue with how they are incented to perform (or should I say NOT perform) warranty work. You can't tell me only owners who manage their dealership well buy Hyundai or Honda dealership and only the dummys buy and mismanage VW dealerships.
 

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Personally, my perception of the dealer issue is this. The mechanic/technician competency is a variable by dealer and by country. If you own any VW model in Europe, then I'd anticipate the competency level in service to be high to excellent. This is because VW is like Toyota down here. Toyota down here have a good reputation to support all their models, LC200 included, because they sell lots of them. So, the Toyota mechanic gets frequent exposure to varied service and fault issues, especially the higher end models like the LC200 where they are plentiful on our roads. The more the tech has "hands-on", the more competent they should become. Most things in life work on that basis in fact - the more you do something, the better you should be at doing it. Now, take the Touareg. It's probably VW's lowest volume seller. There are less of them in the workshop down here (and probably up in Nth America), so the mechanic get limited exposure, maybe very limited exposure. There are factors in workshops that can lead to a loss of a skilled tech. Maybe not well treated or valued or not paid what they are worth. They move on. The dealer has got to be held accountable for the competency mix of their tech staff. How much of a hole has a departing skilled and highly competent tech left in the workshop knowledge base? Does the dealer just replace a highly competent tech with a newbie just out of an apprenticeship? Of course, this does not work. The loser is the customer in the end process. So in essence, if you own a Touareg down here, by my measure, you should expect that getting it fixed will not be as straight forward as maybe getting it fixed in a Wolfsburg regional dealership. The other issue is the cost of parts. WTF? The price of parts cannot be justified and it is a major fault with the importer to rip off their customer. On that note, I'd part company with VW at a later point in time if I felt ripped off.
 

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I'm happy to report that I have not had any of those problems, this is my first Touareg and from my experience not my last.
My 2007 Treg has been reliable and without any grief to me. I'm not committed to another Touareg because the fact remains that VW as a brand outside of Europe needs to lift its game after the sales process is completed. Plus down here they are way over priced and not great value for money long-term.
 

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My '07 has been reliable save for the intake flaps. I will consider a T3 down the road. I do have a very good dealer in terms of service. Keep on mind, my year was year four of the T1, so a lot of the issues were fixed.
 

· My God,it's full of stars
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Nick, the bulk of complaints which lead to a poor rating is not because of peeling knobs or a trim defect or a leaky sunroof. It's as Slurper said, it's the lack of training by dealers in identifying problems which means your car is in the shop for weeks in some cases. If your turbo craps out on you twice it's not a dealer fault (unless he installed it wrong), it's maybe a design fault. But when you spend 50k+ on a vehicle (analogous to a Lexus, Infinity etc.) you have a whole new set of rules to ensure CS which Toyota, Honda and others long ago realized. VW hasn't because it's still selling $22k Beetles or Jettas in their mindset.

Brand loyalty, as I tried to explain to Daimler Chrysler is a delicate thing. But once you lose it, it's gone and gone forever. It will be a long time before I look at a MOPAR vehicle again, because I'm done with shoddy quality. It doesn't matter if the JGC is wonderful and won this year's Award. I won't buy one, I'm done.

I love the Tregs, IMHO the V8 with air suspension is exactly what I needed up here and I knew I would be on my own for most of it. HOWEVER I expect whilst the car is under warranty for it to be fixed properly, that parts are ordered when you make an appointment and not as VW NA stated "the dealer will NOT order any parts until a WO is issued and the vehicle is in their shop". So a broken fan belt results in a car being in the shop for 10 days until the part which can be bought at NAPA is ordered and installed. For a 50K VEHICLE???????? This is insane.

Design faults are design faults, maintenance is maintenance. As for parts costs, it funds their racing team as it does for Porsche so it's grossly over priced. As an example, my dealer wants $1,250 bucks for an intake manifold, Volkswagen Parts - Get VW Parts at Wholesale Prices sells it for $986.62. An intake manifold...wonder if I can fit an Edelbrook one in its place....

I would love to have a good relationship of mutual respect with a dealer, but when they state "you really shouldn't buy this vehicle if you live 400 miles away" it says it all.

siberian
 

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My owner experience of other makers would put Mitusbishi Australia at the top of the list. 5-year warranty and 10 year powertrain warranty, limited to the original owner. I've owned 8 non-4wd Mitsubishi models and always found them reliable and fair on parts and service.

Takes a lot of beating when I do less than 16,000klms/yr on a Treg:

Warranty 10/5 Year - Diamond Advantage Warranty - Mitsubishi Motors Australia

Take note Herr VW!

A Treg with that kind of warranty would sell anywhere in way more numbers than it does now. Most of the tech issues on the forum would not get posted if this type of warranty was offered by VW.
 

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Personally, my perception of the dealer issue is this. The mechanic/technician competency is a variable by dealer and by country. If you own any VW model in Europe, then I'd anticipate the competency level in service to be high to excellent. This is because VW is like Toyota down here.
I frequent the Spain Touareg forum. They get the idiot workshops who have no idea how to fix a Touareg just like we do here in the U.S. Certain forum users have identified a few VW shops in Spain that they rate better than others for Touareg service.

Personally, my perception of the dealer issue is this. The mechanic/technician competency is a variable by dealer and by country. If you own any VW model in Germany, then I'd anticipate the competency level in service to be high to excellent. This is because VW is like Toyota up here.

In the VW dealership I use, I am fortunate that the seniormost technician gets all the Touareg and Phaeton maintenance, and he knows what he is doing because of a mix of having gotten the proper training all those years ago, plus servicing quite a few of these cars on a regular basis. Before I found his shop years ago, I actually took the cars to three VW shops around here. In retrospect think it was actually dangerous taking these cars to mechanics who otherwise do mostly Jettas.
 

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Not sure I'm buying the dumb dealers=a bad reliability rating argument - The Cayenne has all the same issues listed above (no surprise as the components are the same) and its being sold at a significantly higher price point by a dealer network that knows exactly how to stroke its client base. Their techs are often revered as the best of the best....end result? The Cayenne gets the same crap reliability ratings as well.

And if I look at what people are talking about here at CT:
- 50,000 views have to do with the transmission hard downshift *mentioned in the list above),
-next in line with almost 18,000 views is the TDI waterpump issue.
- The air suspension corrosion threads wins out on the running gear category with over 25,000 views.
-The few peeling button threads I saw summed up to over 20,000 views.....
-The stepper motos issues are getting old now but they were THE topic back in the day
-the threads on prop shaft failure sum up to over 50,000 views

I think the list above is quite clearly the reliability issues people have had and are reporting on.

Granted, they sold 500,000 of these things so I'm sure many people haven't had any of these problems...but over the 4 Tregs I've had I've experienced everything but the A/S corrosion issue.
 
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