Club Touareg Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New V8 has about 13,000 klms on the clock. Started towing 2.5 tonne van after 8000 klms. Have found that have used probably 1 litre of oil in that time. Vw topped up with 500 mls prior to last tow of 3400 klms and now seems do indicate down to same level. Therefore used about 1 litre all up. Vw says that this is normal for this car. What are other new V8 owners experiences with oil usage please. Regards Garry
 

·
Registered
2013 Touareg R line V8 Diesel
Joined
·
106 Posts
The answer from VW should be "that is acceptable" not "that is normal". My 2103 V8 TDI with 75000k now, used may be 100 to 200 ml in the last 15,000km. The amount of oil an engine uses will very significantly even from new due to: use differences , cylinder bore and oil ring finish differences, PCV ventilation and blow-by differences etc . For most modern engines most manufacturers would say 1l per 10,000km is acceptable during the warranty period and probably even more.

Often oil loss is not noticed between services as it is replaced by blow- by water and fuel if the engine is driven mainly in short urbane use. it becomes more noticeable with towing and highway use as the fuel and water is boiled off

cheers
Rohan.
 

·
Registered
2015 (2016 MY) Touareg SE 3.0 V6 TDi 262PS
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
The answer from VW should be "that is acceptable" not "that is normal". My 2103 V8 TDI with 75000k now, used may be 100 to 200 ml in the last 15,000km. The amount of oil an engine uses will very significantly even from new due to: use differences , cylinder bore and oil ring finish differences, PCV ventilation and blow-by differences etc . For most modern engines most manufacturers would say 1l per 10,000km is acceptable during the warranty period and probably even more.

Often oil loss is not noticed between services as it is replaced by blow- by water and fuel if the engine is driven mainly in short urbane use. it becomes more noticeable with towing and highway use as the fuel and water is boiled off

cheers
Rohan.
I think you'll find they'll say 1 litre per 1,000 miles (1,500 km) is acceptable - that's way too much for most private owners but it does seem to be an industry standard, at least in the UK.

While any water vapour accumulating in the engine oil will evaporate off in normal use, diesel fuel doesn't as it's boiling point is well over 300 C and can result in dangerous dilution of the oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,361 Posts
As above, VAG dealers won't investigate oil use until it's being burnt at 1 litre per 1,000 miles.

(And at that rate you would only need to replace the filter at the oil service!)

I've had two cars that burnt oil when I first got them - a BMW and an Audi.

I cured both of them by driving them like I stole them for 1,000 miles. Neither used any oil between their services thereafter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the advice. Obviously my oil usage is within acceptable limits. A good point about driving the car like you stole it. I don’t normally do this but is this situation sounds like ot may be a good idea. Watch out radar.
 

·
Registered
2013 Touareg R line V8 Diesel
Joined
·
106 Posts
60 years ago maybe 1 litre per 1500 km was acceptable given the materials and machining accuracy of the times. Anyone who says that these days for a modern engine is either ignorant or trying to avoid a warranty claim ! Car manufacturers and dealers are strange cats, one second they are telling you how great their modern creations are and the next they are telling you they are no better than 60 years ago :)

Conventional diesel fuels vaporise at temperatures between 149 °C and 371 °C. Conventional diesel flash points vary between 52 and 96 °C. So you will start to vaporise and suck diesel fuel out of crankcase oil with the PCV system at normal engine operating temperatures especially on the highway with extended higher temperatures. Also very little of the blow by gases are actually raw diesel but they are a whole range of molecules from partial combustion, many of which will vaporise out much more easier than the heavier diesel fuel components.

If the rings have not seated well in a new engine, which is rare with modern ring designs and materials and bore accuracy then accelerating hard to maximise cylinder pressure can help bed them in. Doing a series of 30 or 40 full throttle acceleration runs in the 2000 to 3500 rpm range in a V8 TDI should help bed in the rings if your lucky and reduce the oil consumption, assuming its coming from oil getting past the piston oil rings and not from the major other possible cause which is valve stem seals. Turbo shaft seals are also possible but very rare in a new car.

cheers
Rohan
 

·
Registered
2015 (2016 MY) Touareg SE 3.0 V6 TDi 262PS
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
60 years ago maybe 1 litre per 1500 km was acceptable given the materials and machining accuracy of the times. Anyone who says that these days for a modern engine is either ignorant or trying to avoid a warranty claim ! Car manufacturers and dealers are strange cats, one second they are telling you how great their modern creations are and the next they are telling you they are no better than 60 years ago :)

Conventional diesel fuels vaporise at temperatures between 149 °C and 371 °C. Conventional diesel flash points vary between 52 and 96 °C. So you will start to vaporise and suck diesel fuel out of crankcase oil with the PCV system at normal engine operating temperatures especially on the highway with extended higher temperatures. Also very little of the blow by gases are actually raw diesel but they are a whole range of molecules from partial combustion, many of which will vaporise out much more easier than the heavier diesel fuel components.

If the rings have not seated well in a new engine, which is rare with modern ring designs and materials and bore accuracy then accelerating hard to maximise cylinder pressure can help bed them in. Doing a series of 30 or 40 full throttle acceleration runs in the 2000 to 3500 rpm range in a V8 TDI should help bed in the rings if your lucky and reduce the oil consumption, assuming its coming from oil getting past the piston oil rings and not from the major other possible cause which is valve stem seals. Turbo shaft seals are also possible but very rare in a new car.

cheers
Rohan
1 litre/1500 km as what car makers and dealers use as a threshold before investigating under warranty.

Have you not come across oil dilution problems caused by the extra injection of diesel during active DPF regenerations - Volvo diesels were particularly affected.
 

·
Registered
2013 Touareg R line V8 Diesel
Joined
·
106 Posts
1 litre/1500 km as what car makers and dealers use as a threshold before investigating under warranty.

Have you not come across oil dilution problems caused by the extra injection of diesel during active DPF regenerations - Volvo diesels were particularly affected.
just because dealers and makers use a 60 year old rule of thumb to avoid warranty claims does not make it right !

As for getting piston ring blow by products into crankcase oil I am sure you may get more when you deliberately inject extra fuel to raise exhaust gas temperatures to burn off the DPF depending on how that extra injection is timed and controlled and it has taken manufacturers years to get that working right. The DPF burn off cycle is short compared to normal running and blow by is pretty consistent per power stroke. What actually blows by is mainly partially burnt fuel as the combustion is quenched by the bore and piston in the small gap between then down to the piston rings. Even with DPF regens occurring every hour or so of running you will not get much raw diesel into the crank case and most of what does get in will vaporise with the engine at normal operating conditions especially with highway driving. Overtime you will however contaminate the crankcase oil which is why you need to change it frequently compared to other oils

cheers
Rohan
 

·
Registered
2015 (2016 MY) Touareg SE 3.0 V6 TDi 262PS
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
just because dealers and makers use a 60 year old rule of thumb to avoid warranty claims does not make it right !

As for getting piston ring blow by products into crankcase oil I am sure you may get more when you deliberately inject extra fuel to raise exhaust gas temperatures to burn off the DPF depending on how that extra injection is timed and controlled and it has taken manufacturers years to get that working right. The DPF burn off cycle is short compared to normal running and blow by is pretty consistent per power stroke. What actually blows by is mainly partially burnt fuel as the combustion is quenched by the bore and piston in the small gap between then down to the piston rings. Even with DPF regens occurring every hour or so of running you will not get much raw diesel into the crank case and most of what does get in will vaporise with the engine at normal operating conditions especially with highway driving. Overtime you will however contaminate the crankcase oil which is why you need to change it frequently compared to other oils

cheers
Rohan
Touaregs sold in Europe have met Euro 6 since 2016 model year and diesels still have 20,000 mile (30,000 km) oil change intervals but the risk of oil dilution is ever-present. As I understand it, Touaregs sold in Australia are the equivalent of Euro 5 which is a much easier technical standard to achieve
 

·
Registered
2013 Touareg R line V8 Diesel
Joined
·
106 Posts
Touaregs sold in Europe have met Euro 6 since 2016 model year and diesels still have 20,000 mile (30,000 km) oil change intervals but the risk of oil dilution is ever-present. As I understand it, Touaregs sold in Australia are the equivalent of Euro 5 which is a much easier technical standard to achieve
I agree ... I would never run a Touareg TDI for a 30000km oil change interval given the risk of oil contamination be it Euro 5 or 6 or any other digit they use. Modern synthetic oils can last extended periods due to their great stability under shear stress and high temperatures. So you can get long life in transmissions and diffs ( but not forever like VW claim). You can filter oil particle contamination in an engine oil but you cant filter out dilution with other contaminants that build up thus the need to change much more often. I personally would not go beyond 15000km but that is just me.

cheers
Rohan
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top