[rgh0]

No one appears to have done this installation, so I thought I would record in this thread my approach as I do the work over the next few weeks / months.

Background

My 2013 R-line V8 TDI has now done 90k kms with 30k km being done in the last 2 years since I purchased it. In its previous life it was owned by the wife of a VW dealer in NSW and did few miles each year but had a regular yearly service at the dealership and I am sure it got the best possible attention when serviced.

Inspecting the inlet manifolds with a borescope showed a lot of oily carbon build up especially where the EGR enters just after the inlet throttles but less further down the manifold. As usual cleaning with the inlet cleaner spray cans only removed a little

Around 3 mm of build up around the EGR inlet which is the hole at the bottom about 70mm into the inlet.

There are currently no issues from the observed build up but I want to control it as I plan to keep the car for the long term and at least another 200k kms

Less build up further down the inlet and cleaned better with the spray especially on the bottom

Planned Installation and long term maintenance.

My plans are as follows to keep the inlet acceptably clean long term

1. Install two Provent 150 catch cans. One for each inlet as the PCV vent splits to feed each inlet. I have these on order now. I looked at Provent 100, 150 and 200 and Ryco and Flashlube catch cans and using 2 of the Provent 150's appeared to be the right capacity ( rated to 200kw each) and the dimensions appeared best for the planned installation ( more details below)

2. Scrape out the first upper section of the inlet to remove the build up. This is easily accessible by removing the inlet throttle butterflies

3. Use the inlet cleaner routinely at each yearly service with a can for each inlet as a preventative to help minimise future build up.

4. Accessing the second lower section of the manifold for cleaning is much harder as it requires degassing of the AC system and removal of piping from the compressor and removal of HP fuel piping so the upper section can be removed . I am also not sure how badly fouled the lower section is and I will inspect more with the borescope around the bend once I get the upper section clean so the borescope lens does not get all fouled up. Hopefully this will not be required with the above actions

Details of planned Provent installation

There is not a lot of room in the engine bay for catch cans on the V8 TDI. It is also made more complex by the EGR system being buried under the inlet manifold and the EGR gases emerging out the front under the manifold in alloy hard piping that then splits and winds it way around the drive belt and engine ancillaries to each side of the engine to the intakes from the filters to the turbos

Looking down at the front of the engine you can see the alloy EGR pipe that runs to the RH inlet. a similar one runs to the LH inlet after the pipe splits just under the inlet manifold in the centre of the V next to the aircon compressor

There is a short section of rubber pipe from the end of these alloy lines to the inlets. My plan is to cut the rubber line and run rubber line extensions to the catch cans and back to the inlets.

I plan to fit the Provent 150 catch cans on a bracket just in front of strut towers on each side of the engine. This appears to be the best place as there is enough room to fit the cans and the extra piping length will be minimal and access to the can top for filter replacement is good and the can drain line and valve can be run down to under the engine easily. Space on the RH side is more constricted than the LH due to the brake booster and brake lines but I think it will fit. I will confirm when I get Provent 150's delivered and post some more photos

to be continued

cheers
Rohan

 

[rgh0]

Some more photos on the installation challenges and plans

Below you can see the alloy PCV breather pipe emerging from under the inlet manifold next to the AC compressor and running under the compressor pulley across to the RH intake. You can also see the work involved to pull off the upper allow inlet manifold to get to the lower plastic manifold with the AC pipe and HP fuel pipe and electrical lines across the top of it.

Below the LH breather pipe and its rubber hose extension that runs from under the manifold to the LH intake

The alloy pipes are 16 mm OD where the nominal 16mm ID rubber hose extensions connect. The Provent 150 catch can has 20 mm OD connections for nominal 19mm ID rubber hose so I will extend these 16mm ID rubber lines and get some 16mm to 19 mm adapters to connect to the catch can




Below is location for the RH catch can. I will fit it in front of the fuel filter and I will make a bracket that comes of the fuel filter brackets and bolts. The space is tight between the filter and brake lines and air cleaner but I think there is enough.

LH side catch can installation has more space and I will make up a bracket to come off the strut tower bolts

Just waiting now for the catch cans to be delivered so I can measure and make the brackets

Below a few general views of the 4.2l V8 TDI engine with the plastic engine top cover removed for those not familiar with it, not much room left in the Tregs engine bay.

cheers
Rohan

 

[rgh0]

The Provent 150 Catch Cans have arrived and i spent some time figuring out how to fit them in the limited space available

On the RH side it will fit just in front of the fuel filter and next to the ABS valve block with a short bracket going back to the front of the fuel filter where there is a suitable bracket bolt ( see photo in previous post). The can top connection can be rotated to face forward and line up with the bottom one

On the LH side it will fit just next to and a little behind the power steering reservoir with a longer bracket back to the front bolt that secures the front suspension strut top to the body ( see previous post). Enough exposed free bolt thread on the strut bolts to fit the bracket without disturbing the strut bolt itself.

There is a 22mm heater connection that the breather pipes connect to at each of the turbo inlet pipes from the air cleaner. The breather hoses are 16mm where they connect to the aluminium tubes off the engine ( see previous post) but they are 22 mm at the end of elbow at the other end where they go into the solenoid. It will be an easy job to disconnect the current breather hose at this valve and turn it 90 degrees so the elbow points to the rear and then with a suitable hose connector extend the 22mm hose back to the 19mm connectors on the Provent 150 and return a 19mm hose back to the heater valve. I will need 4 lengths of around 500 to 600mm long 19mm low pressure oil resistant breather hose. I may need a 19mm elbow connector for the return hose at the heater to keep the hose run tidy. The hoses will run about 75 mm from the front 2 cylinder exhaust headers on each side at one point and I will use flexible aluminium faced woven Kevlar insulation wrap to protect the hoses in that area.

22mm heater connection

Going skiing next weekend so it will be a couple of weeks until i get a chance to fab up the brackets and install the cans and hoses

While I had things apart to figure out the installation I took the opportunity to remove the drain valves in the air filter inlets ( the official non china VW mod ).

I also noticed that there is a catch screen before the MAF sensor that should prevent any large bits of wet air filter damaging the turbo !

cheers
Rohan

 

[ValveCoverGasket]

Nice work!
Have you considered the drain arrangement? I have a small provent on my TDI swapped vanagon running the provent check valve back into the block so the system requires significantly less maintenance

 

[rgh0]

I thought about running drains to the dip stick hole at the front of the engine but the route is very congested with other things and not easy to do and no other obvious access plugs into the sump. I can run the drain hose from each catch can straight down beside the engine and have the drain taps easily accessible on each side of the under engine plastic tray. I will see how much oil and water it collects and whether frequent draining becomes to much of a chore and if so look and running the drains back into the sump somehow.

cheers
Rohan

 

[rgh0]

Made the needed brackets and fitted the catch cans in place. Will fit the hoses next weekend when I have more time. Used 20mm x 2 mm aluminium strip and 8mm aluminium tube as a spacer and 8 mm bolt

LH Bracket below

LH Provent 150 catch can mounted on bracket

RH Bracket was easier coming off the fuel filter

RH Provent 150 in position

cheers
Rohan

 

[seafarer28]

I thought about running drains to the dip stick hole at the front of the engine but the route is very congested with other things and not easy to do and no other obvious access plugs into the sump. I can run the drain hose from each catch can straight down beside the engine and have the drain taps easily accessible on each side of the under engine plastic tray. I will see how much oil and water it collects and whether frequent draining becomes to much of a chore and if so look and running the drains back into the sump somehow.

cheers
Rohan

Rohan,
I wouldn't worry too much about draining the catch cans back into the sump.
I've been monitoring mine which I fitted to the V6 for more than 50K kms and it's been collecting only 15ml/15K on average, plus I like to know how much is actually being collected which you wont be able to do if plumbed direct.

TonyB

 

[rgh0]

Hi Tony
What impact have you seen on inlet carbon build up after 50k kms of catch can use. There is almost no long term information on if and how much it reduces inlet fouling. What catch can are you using ?

cheers
Rohan

 

[seafarer28]

I'm afraid I cannot give you that information as I have not had a reason to remove the manifolds since fitment.

Also just thought that if/when I do get to have a look it still will not give me an accurate assessment on the catch can performance because it was not fitted to a clean manifold to start but on one that has seen 94,500kms of use.
I do know what dirty manifolds look like as I have a pair of complete manifolds incl. motors on hand which I plan on having cleaned and refurbished to swap so when they go on, it will be a good starting point to obtain an opinion down the track.
Do you feel like cleaning your manifolds before fitting the cans so you have a clean starting point?

I have a ProVent 200.

111K kms on this manifold.

TonyB

 

[zambony]

oh man I would like a V8 TDI SO MUCH.

 

[rgh0]

Once I have the cans hooked up and running for a while I plan to clean the upper manifold section which I can do easily without removal and then monitor future build up in that section over the next 90k kms compared to whats happened to date. It will be a few years years until I know the answer as to whether the catch cans actually work at slowing fouling in the inlets , which is why I am looking for any real world long term ( 50k kms plus) monitoring of build up change when catch cans have been fitted. All the publicly published reports talk about the amount of oil captured in a few thousand Kms but nothing longer term about fouling reduction in the inlets as a result

With the upper manifold clean I will also be able to get my borosope around the bend into the lower manifold section to see what the fouling is like there also to decide if I need to pull off the manifolds to get to the lower section for a clean

cheers
Rohan

oh man I would like a V8 TDI SO MUCH.

It leaves smiles on my face every day ... a superb combination of power and torque when you need it and economy and smooth quiet performance when you dont, plus that V8 growl when you floor it sounds just great.

 

[zambony]

It leaves smiles on my face every day ... a superb combination of power and torque when you need it and economy and smooth quiet performance when you dont, plus that V8 growl when you floor it sounds just great.

Go ahead man, rub it in...

 

[rgh0]

Completed the hose installation on the Provent 150 catch cans so now have a working system.... the first in the world on a V8TDI as far as I am aware . The hoses were a tight fit and lots of elbows required to run the hoses through the few gaps available. It would look nicer with custom moulded hoses but given the few V8 TDI made around the world its unlikely anyone will ever do a bracket and moulded hose kit. Installation would have been easier with thinner more flexible 19mm hoses than the standard oil resistant reinforced hose with 4 mm wall thickness but I could not find anything suitable. I will run the system for a while to see how much oil it catches and then look at cleaning out the upper manifold section and inspecting the lower section with a boroscope.

some photos below of the hose installation.

RH can hoses drop vertically and then another elbow to run forward

RH Hoses to and from catch can connect to where the original breather hose went into the air intake. Installation in totally reversible a no hose were cut

LH Catch can installation similar though not totally symmetrical as catch cans have to be in a slightly different location on each side of the engine due to other components limits access

Connection of hoses to original breather location similar with no hoses cut. The upper hose was rotated 90 degrees to run to the catch tank and the return hose from the catch tank fitted to the turbo air inlet pipe original connection and heater

Finished installation with engine cover back on. Not a lot of clearance but it all works

Drains from catch cans run down in front of strut tower and are secured to the inside front of the plastic inner fender liner where they can be easily accessed. The hole for the cable tie on the inner liner was the only new hole I had to drill in the installation

An interesting exercise and in around 3 years time I will know if worth it and whether inlet fouling is really reduced .

cheers
Rohan

 

[rgh0]

500 kms and a couple of weeks of commuting to work.

The coalescing filter is covered in oil on the outside

The outside of the Provent chamber has oil but the inside no oil yet and inside of the filter shows no oil yet. So collecting oil but volume after 500kms small

taking a longer trip in the next couple of week and will see what it looks like after 2000kms.

cheers]
Rohan