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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I did a search and this was the best I was able to come up with...

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f93/actual-changes-to-240hp-my-2013-3-0l-v6-tdi-79516.html

My question is - now that the CNRB has been on the road for a year or so (in North America), what are the differences between the two from a maintenance perspective?

CNRB uses a different turbo and ECU tune, yes. There was also discussion about changes to the actual engine design (timing chains?). I'm not sure what is true and what is not, and how that plays into longer term reliability.

Growing up, I drove a Dasher diesel into the ground at 225k (compression was low). I'm going to make the switch to a TDI (from my V6) I've driven both motors, not a huge difference from the seat of the pants. Just wondering which would be a better motor over the longer term and what the specific differences are between the two motors.

Thx.
Blake
 
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Right now it seems to be unknown. More definitive answer will be @ 120,000, 240,000 miles ETC (first major tuen) Some "observable differences" are 1 mpg better EPA C/H. Another , 15 hp or 6.7% + with no increase in torque (406), different designs with are rumored to reduce friction. Some notice SOTP differences in how the different designs applies power.

Anecdotally, less technically precise valve grinding, which again anecdotally seemed to increase oil consumption somewhat in a few instances there are a few boards where this is the subject.
 

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Now - if we just knew what CATA and CNRB really stand for it might make some sense.
 
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So far it hasn't self destructed the water pump (like my CATA did), it also has a cheaper oil filter (smaller) and cheaper oil changes (less oil capacity), its easier to work on (oil filter in better location, fuel filter in better location, tubing under the engine cover is much better organized).

I had some oil consumption issues on my CNRB for the first 10K miles, but that has since gone to ZERO consumption.

Overall I like it.
 

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2013 VW Touareg TDI Sport w/tech
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The newer engine is a bit lighter (something about the metal used in the block), has 2 fewer timing chains ( from 4 to 2 ), a slightly bigger turbo (I think that's how they got the peak 15hp gain). There are a few other minor differences but I can't think of them of the top of my head (I am missing a lot of brain cells ....... )


I am pretty sure my engine code was CNRA and not CNRB . I will check again at lunch if I remember to, I think the method is holding the trip reset button with the ignition on for 10 seconds. I wrote down CNRA on a piece of paper in front of my computer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I read something about lower friction between the moving surfaces inside the engine. Hope I'm not confusing with something else.
I appreciate the thoughts, feedback and real life experiences! I don't know - that's what I was trying to get at. There's lots of "I read" or "i heard" out there. Not that there's anything wrong with it - there isn't. Just trying to better understand to make an informed decision.

I realize the CNRB has only been out there a year, so we're still in the early stages of discovering any issues. But I'm guessing there are mechanical differences too. I'm sure parts of the engine are more complicated than the CAXA (in typical German fashion) and other parts are simplified - as they enhance and develop the block and the platform around it. As we all know, most of the time they do a great job - sometimes they trip on themselves.
 

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I'm wondering if the changes were more about making it "fit" into the broader VAG lineup. I don't mean physically fit, but more in terms of drivability, emissions for the future, reliability, cost of operation....its now the ubiquitous diesel engine for the VAG lineup as it appears in the Treg, Q5, Q7, Cayenne, A6,A7,A8.
 

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I am not sure how it would "FIT," from a consumers' point of view. It (3.0 L TDI) does serve as the "back bone" across the product line. So the more reliable and durable it is designed and functions well in the real world, the better.

But YES to all of the above and add to that lower cost of manufacturing.
 

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I appreciate the thoughts, feedback and real life experiences! I don't know - that's what I was trying to get at. There's lots of "I read" or "i heard" out there. Not that there's anything wrong with it - there isn't. Just trying to better understand to make an informed decision.

I realize the CNRB has only been out there a year, so we're still in the early stages of discovering any issues. But I'm guessing there are mechanical differences too. I'm sure parts of the engine are more complicated than the CAXA (in typical German fashion) and other parts are simplified - as they enhance and develop the block and the platform around it. As we all know, most of the time they do a great job - sometimes they trip on themselves.
I understand, here is the article:

Green Car Congress: Audi banking on Gen 2 3.0L TDI diesel for US sales; calls for a “fair shot� for diesel (update w/ rally results)

The 3.0 TDI. Audi is only applying the new second-generation 3.0-liter TDI in the models currently on sale in the US: the Q5, Q7, A6, A7 and A8. The engines are paired with 8-speed Tiptronic transmissions.

The first generation 3.0L TDI delivered 225 hp (168 kW) and 406 lb-ft (550 N·m) of torque; the current second-generation engine is 55 lbs (25 kg) lighter (from 458 lbs to 425 lbs), and delivers 240 hp (179 kW) and 428 lb-ft (580 N·m) of torque. (The Gen 2 engine is also a bit shorter than its predecessor.)

The company had set a number of development objectives for Gen2 of the engine, said Axel Macher, head of Thermodynamics/Application V6 TDI at Audi in Neckarsulm, Germany. These included:

Higher power and torque;
Lower fuel consumption;
Meeting ULEV2 emissions;
A start-stop system;
Minimized weight;
Compact design;
Acoustic refinement;
Modular construction;
Optimized driving dynamics; and
Optimized production time.
Audi took 26 lbs (11.8 kg) out of the crankcase, crankshaft, main bearing frame and upper oil pan—the last by switching from aluminum to magnesium. Macher noted that Audi has a new machining process that allows them to make a cylinder bore that will be perfectly round when the engine is operating. “If you have a perfect round bore in engine operation mode, you can reduce the pretension of piston weight, and that reduces friction,” Macher said. Laser smoothing of the bores also reduces friction.

Further contributing to a reduction in friction was going from four chain drive chains to two, as well as a reduction in weight of 8.8 lbs (4 kg).

For the second-generation, Audi further optimized the turbo with integral insulation and by moving away from flange-based mounting to the exhaust manifolds to an integrated component. Reducing thermal mass, it enables the turbo to reach operating temperature more quickly in the heat up phase. Audi also specifically optimized the turbocharger for the North American market to deliver very quick performance off the line. (A design target that appears definitely to have been met, at least subjectively, based on our experience in the TDI vehicles.) In Germany, Macher noted, the turbo is optimized for longer stretches of high-speed autobahn driving.


Tdi1
Changes in the exhaust manifolds and turbo from Gen 1 to Gen 2. Click to enlarge.
Injection pressure in the Gen 2 3.0 TDI is raised to 2000 bar, helping increase the power output and reduce emissions. The piezo injectors also use a multi injection strategy—two small pilot injections, followed by the main injection, followed by a post-injection. This strategy contributes to the quietness of the engine.

You need high EGR rates so you can reduce 70-90 % of the NOxemissions. With the second generation of the diesels, we have a bigger EGR cooler, we have tubes with a bigger diameter, so we have less gas flow resistance. This helps us to make better fuel economy and good emissions.

—Alex Macher

Tdi2
Cooled EGR system. Click to enlarge.


Tdi3
Exhaust gas aftertreatment system, shown in an A7. Click to enlarge.
 

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I know this thread is already over one year old, but does anyone have any info on how the 2008 CASA engine differs from the two T3 engines described here earlier?

CASA also seems to be 176 kW / 240 HP, but the emissions are considerably higher, i. e. 262 g/km2.
 

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Was searching for differences - great comparison information. Even though this is a 4 year old thread.
 

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I believe CNRA was the later 240hp engine pre-fix. After the emissions update, it became CNRB.
 

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I have a “high mileage” cnrb. Oil and transmission fluid and filter (yes the transmission has a filter) changes are easy and if you are small don’t require a jack. I’m just over 120k miles (193k km) and am having no problems. I did the tune and delete at 100k miles because the adblue system was messing up and since I wanted to delete it anyway I didn’t pursue warranty coverage. I do use a lot of oil but it’s well below what vw has established as the problem region. I think I use 1.5l between oil changes. Oh my drl is out on one side (as are most others). I drive pretty aggressively with the throttle I probably do way to many mid rpm launches (2000 rpm is good for merging into traffic from a stop and it will go to about 3200 with the tune). Sometimes the launch is to fast but I’ve found I can brake while launching and it’s a very controllable acceleration. I don’t recommend everyone driving their Touareg this way. I’m sure at some point I will burn out the torque converter lockup clutch. I held the launch to long once and got a code for it.
1 Fault Found:
22981 - Torque Converter Lockup Clutch
P1811 00 [040] - Preliminary Over-Temp Stage Reached
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 243
Mileage: 187192 km
Date: 2021.10.20
Time: 19:01:14

Engine RPM: 3173.5 /min
Transmission input speed: 0 /min
Transmission output speed: 0 /min
Engine torque: 500 Nm
ATF temperature: 88 °C
Accelerator pedal position: 100.0 %
Clutch_C1: closed
Clutch_C2: Open
Clutch_C3: Open
Clutch_C4: Open
Clutch_B1: Open
Clutch_B2: Open
Lock Up Clutch: Open
 

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2016 Touareg Luxury 3.0 TDI Malone stage 2 with delete
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Does the treg have launch control? I didn’t dear test reving with the brake depressed and then lift the brake in case something might die. But if it’s a feature I will try on snow first.
I didn’t know before I had the tune so I don’t know what the stock setup is but with the Malone tune it will go up to 3200 or so. 2000 is plenty 3200 is neck breaking.
 

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i have both and im not sure i think i like the cata better...much better low end response....the cnrb also has much more diesel clatter at idle than the cata.....my cata has been awesome and just as good on fuel. We will see what happens when the cnrb is tuned. As for service i find nothing difficult on the cata at all.
 
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