Pretty sure the part numbers were updated from what you originally had? But speaking of that ... what do you have??? Year/model/engine etc?

 

It is 2012 3.0l tdi CATA 189k miles.

 

You've probably mistimed it.

 

How so? It runs relatively smoothly and no check engine light.

Crank was locked and cam gears were locked.

Is this the timing you're talking about?

 

Now the DPf light just came on. Could the injectors be dumping too much fuel? There is white smoke, starts out light and increases to substantial. Coolant level remains constant, oil level remains constant.

Is there a way to restore the injectors as if installing new ones - re-enter each one in vcds?

 

The ECU is attempting to make adjustments as best as possible to keep things smooth

 

So you agree that its most likely a mechanical timing problem? What would I do next, take the chain off the back and move the cam (direction of rotation) a few degrees and measure the effect?
Or move a tooth?

Of course I'll rotate it by hand first.

 

Nevermind. The cam locking pin in the back will only allow me to move the exhaust cam. So you're thinking move the exhaust cam a couple of teeth?

Man I'm panicking. Completely disregard that last statement.

I suppose the best thing to do is to take the rear chain off, remover the girdle and rotate both cams one tooth in the direction of rotation, reassemble everything and see what happens. I will say though that the teeth are marked by paint where the mesh.

 

They are off on both banks because that's how the ecu tries to balance everything. It measures acceleration of the crank after each cylinder fires, then adds or subtracts fuel to make them all even. So you have one bank that is good, and one that is bad.

Don't just randomly move anything, it needs to be pulled apart and start again.

You have smoke as you have incomplete combustion most likely.

 

Thank you so much. Please help me understand this. How can timing be off with the crank locking pin in and the cam lock pin in the right place for the locking pin to go in the slot behind the sprocket?

 

Did you follow the manual? Did you use all locking tools, including assembly cradles and whatever else they call all the specialty tools? What did you all take apart or touch? Did you check clearances, play, etc? This isn't a lawnmower you just did surgery on... It's a complex motor.

 

Yes the manual was followed. Everything I did and touched is in the first post.

Bought all of the locking tools and used them. Its a great system really.
At any rate how can timing be off when cams where locked via the pin in back and the crank was locked? The cams also are painted where the teeth should mesh. Its seems impossible for it not to be timed correctly.

 

Ah, so the head has been off as well, that wasn't mentioned. Did you get the right thickness head gasket?

 

Yes thank you. According to my measurements and the manual a three hole gasket was required.

Do you know how the timing could be off with all locking pins in place? Or does that eliminate the possibility of a mechanical timing issue?

The only other change was the intake rockers.

I know the most logical place to look is mechanical timing but I checked that multiple times and if the locking pins are used I don't see how it can't be a top dead center.

 

What’s the PN of the intake rockers you put in?

 

Thank you for your help.

I ordered these from Fcpeuro

TRW 059109417J


This web page

Audi VW Engine Rocker Arm - TRW 059109417J

Audi VW Engine Rocker Arm - TRW 059109417J

www.fcpeuro.com

 

The ones I received from fcpeuro look different from the ones that were on the car

Different country of origin most likely

Can I get the pr code for my engine from vcds? I'm not with the car at the moment.

You should have a PR code sticker in the spare wheel well... or your owner's manual... you can also call a dealer and get them to run your VIN to get them.
visual

 

Different country of origin most likely
View attachment 264794


You should have a PR code sticker in the spare wheel well... or your owner's manual... you can also call a dealer and get them to run your VIN to get them.
visual

Man that is awesome information. Thank you.

Well the ones that came out definitely looked different than the new ones. I just couldn't measure any differences using a pair of micrometers in my hands. Maybe a couple of thousandths would make enough of difference.

I will absolutely follow through and post my findings.

 

Not necessarily... IF you're confident that you've checked everything and nothing was out of spec, I'd still dig.
Your "thicker" HG would compensate for just a "surface skim".... but we don't really know what was taken off.
How about your valve guides? Were they checked for play? Were they ok?
What compression readings did you get? Are they even across all cylinders and banks?
If valves were replaced, I can only assume that they were damaged in some way... what was damaged on them?

 

I'm not necessarily suggesting that you fubared something, but with something this complex, it's quite feasible... especially when multiple people are involved, etc. I'll give you a first hand ridiculous example from earlier this week when I took a lawnmower carb apart to fix a no start issue.... it's one of the simplest mechanisms you can have on a ICE, and because I didn't even look at what I was doing, I ended up not clocking the carb bowl correctly upon reassembly, only to end up with another no start condition after the fix.... so the second time I ripped it apart, I actually looked at what I was doing instead of just dismissing it as a "simple" thing that I don't need to use my brain on at all....

Clearly things are bad after "reassembly" in your case as well, so something was overlooked or incorrectly re-assembled.
I don't see how "resetting" injectors or anything like that would "fix" this.

 

Thank you. Disregard the pm I sent. I couldn't open this thread due to a server error.


I think you have me on the right track. I'll Make certain I have the exact same rockers ( per pr code) as the ones that came off and I'll have the head shop assemble the thing.

 

Subbed for interest

May be a silly question but did you mess with the hpfp at all?

 

No I didn't. Very careful not to run it dry, I let the computer prime the system. The actual values are very close to the set values.

My filter is clean and has no metal that I see in it.

 

So what actually happened for you to do all of this work?

 

So what actually happened for you to do all of this work?

That's my first thought, why did you pull the head for?

 

So here are the visual differences in the rocker arms for the 2012 CATA. I'll edit to include the PR code later.

The rockers in the head are what came out of mine. The only noticeable difference in the pictures is the divet in one and not the other.

 

But one bank is all new and other bank has how many miles (aka wear) on it? I think whatever you do to one bank you need to do the same to the other so it's symmetrical.

But I have zero experience wrenching on this engine (yet). But that's what my logical brain is saying. I think the procedure only works for all new on both banks or same ware on both banks, no new stuff on one bank and old stuff on the other.

 

Those 3rd gen motor seem to eat timing gears like they are going out of style... Doubtful that applies to our resident victim here

 

... around 18min mark is what I was talking about. Like I said, don't know how much of it applies.

 

Update: Took some time off. I'll be checking compression today.

I now have the correct matching rocker arms installed, the cam is correctly set. Still has rough idle and white smoke.

Fuel pressure actual and high are close to the factory setting.

If compression checks out good then this must be an ecu issue or the injectors are bad?
Maybe I should have the injectors tested next?

I posted this issue on the Ross Tech site as well. I'm looking for advice on makings sure the injectors and ecu are working correctly together.
Either way I'll post the final outcome.

 

Man I hate such gaps in responding to threads I can't remember the details

New injectors? If so did you code them properly?

Any tune at all or stock tune?

 

Thanks.

No they are not new which makes me wonder if they simply need to re-learn or re-enter them as if they were new. I took one off, turned it around and put the nozzle in a water bottle, it is firing but who knows if its firing properly.

I'm beginning to lose hope. I don't know how to check timing other than the crank pin and cam pin lining up.

 

Sorry. Also a stock tune.

 

Which of these chains did you touch?

 

Which of these chains did you touch?
View attachment 265227

Cam shaft drive Bank one drive c.

 

WTF am I looking at? How did you "fire" the injector? There's no return line on it....... If the engine isn't cranking, the HPFP isn't making pressure ......


Also, back to the chain... you used the correct manual procedure, locking pins, and you rotated the cam locking pin 90deg after inserting it into the sprocket?

 

I connected the injector and turned the engine over.


Yes on the procedure. The pin tightens up nicely when its rotated so that the handle on it is perpendicular to the cam shaft.

Thank you

 

And crank was also locked at TDC with locking pin?

 

Yes sir. But the first attempt I did not know to lock the crank. Thats where the real trouble started and its how I bent two valves on number two cylinder. Lesson learned the hard way.

I've taken this thing apart at least 10 times now and used the manual at every step since.

When I rotate the crank so that the pin goes in the camshaft is perfectly aligned - pins drop in, paint marks on teeth, and reliefs in the shaft for head bolts all align.

 

Oh boy....
So... you replaced tensioner\cam\whatever..... positioned sprocket with the cam holes centrally in the slots, unlocked tensioner, pretensioned cam sproket, tightened bolts, pulled locking pins out, hand rotated two rotations, re-locked everything, all lined up?

 

Yes. That is correct. To include rotating the cam 30° counter clockwise to put the girdle on and then rotating it back so that locking pin goes back in.

Is it possible that the valve contact could have damage the injectors? Shouldn't the injector firing into the plastic bottle at least would have blown it off? It sounded as if it had the pressure of a typical can of wD40

 

I don't think the injector will fire in that scenario.... I believe it needs the return line on with a certain amount of return pressure to actually function.

 

Have you performed compression checks and gotten good values off all cylinders?

 

That was on my list for today but I've been tasked with other to do's for today. I'll have time to check compression at least before this week is out.

Thank you so much for your help.