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Discussion Starter #1
Curious observation that I cannot support searching the internet.....

I'm driving a 2016 3.6 V6, the owners manual and sticker inside of the gas door recommends regular gas. I generally use Shell in Canada, but I have used another Top Tier brand when a Shell station isn't handy.

Daily commutes to work I get 10.3 L per 100Kms, its been consistently averaging that since I got the vehicle in July.

Last week, I drove to Buffalo to pick up my daughter and filled up with some brand I never heard of, I was in a hurry and didn't feel like driving around to find another station. On the trip home (4 hour drive), I noticed that my mileage was less on the return trip. I chalked that up to using a non Top Tier fuel.

A few days later I returned her to Buffalo and filled up at a Sunoco Station in Buffalo, I was below 1/4 tank. Sunoco I believe is a Top Tier. There was no improvement in Mileage.

This week, my daily commutes have been as low as 10.8 and as high as 11.3L per 100Kms. Roughly using 0.5L per 100Kms more than normal. The temperatures have remained mild and I am not aware of any other influences that could affect the mileage.

My only assumption, is besides ethanol which is up to 10% in regular gas in Canada, what else is in US gas that could affect mileage?

I'm going to run this tank down before putting in fresh fuel. I'm really curious if my mileage will improve.

Is anyone aware of a difference? I did find this one article, but it really doesn't tell much

Is Canadian gas better than American gas? - The Globe and Mail

thanks
brian
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Finally filled up, I let the tank go down to 1/8. When I calculated my mileage it was 11.5L/100Kms; combined city and mostly highway with speeds averaging 90~95Kph.

My previous calculation was done on Sept 26th, all Cdn fuel and similar driving, it was 10.7L/100Kms.

I'll see how my average is according to the display driving to work next week.

brian
 

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Are you using 87 octane regular in all cases? Have you tried filling with 92+ octane premium to see what happens?

Canada uses 10% ethanol too? My condolences. :-/
 

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My understanding is that Canada and the US calculate octane in fuel differently and that the regular grade in the US has less octane. I believe that you need a midgrade in the US to provide the same mileage. The good news is the cost for midgrade should still be less than what we pay north of the border.

Mike
 

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Sad the canadians got hoodwinked into believing the garbage about Ethanol. Farm lobby does a great job,NOT. Any scientist will tell you the heat power of alcohol is more 10% less efficient that real gas. You can tell I hate it,I do own a number of boats that also hate it.
 

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My understanding is that Canada and the US calculate octane in fuel differently and that the regular grade in the US has less octane. I believe that you need a midgrade in the US to provide the same mileage. The good news is the cost for midgrade should still be less than what we pay north of the border.

Mike
I'm not sure how the US vs Maple Leaf definitions of octane might differ. From an engineering point of view, octane is a measure of the anti-knock resistance of the fuel as compared to 100% octane (a specific hydrocarbon chemical) in a standard test engine. More resistance to knock [pre ignition] results in a higher number. ie, the timing of the standard engine can be advanced just so far when running 100% octane. That number defines 100 octane. The test fuel is run and if the timing can be advanced less before the engine knocks it is lower octane.
That test is not specific or unique to a country or continent. It can be repeated anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Are you using 87 octane regular in all cases? Have you tried filling with 92+ octane premium to see what happens?

Canada uses 10% ethanol too? My condolences. :-/

Consistently used 87 octane as that is what is recommended by VW. I did do one tank of Shell 91 V Power back in the summer as Shell had a promo going. I didn't notice any performance improvement and no change in mpg.

Shell 91 is one of the few gases in Canada that does not contain ethanol. Shell regular 87 adds up to 10% ethanol.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Another fill up last night as I had to make a run to the city. 2 hrs highway both ways averaging 90~95 Kph, with about 1 hr of city driving.

Filling up at home I calculated 10.6L/100Kms, the dash showed 9.8L/100Kms between refuels. This fill and the previous I stopped filling after the first click of the pump. I now know that the vehicle calculates 8% better mileage than actual.

I'll see what driving to work shows this week
 

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Using a higher octane than the manufacturer specifies is a waste of money. There is very little gain as the vehicle is already designed for that octane. However, on the flip side, using a lower octane than specified is not good even though the engine retards to timing to accommodate. You should always use the specified octane rating for your vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Todays drive to work showed 10.5L/100Kms both ways. This was in cooler temperatures, it was 8C in the morning and all 4 tires showed 3 psi below normal.
 

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Using a higher octane than the manufacturer specifies is a waste of money. There is very little gain as the vehicle is already designed for that octane. However, on the flip side, using a lower octane than specified is not good even though the engine retards to timing to accommodate. You should always use the specified octane rating for your vehicle.
There's a minimum octane requirement. That has to be met. But some engines will take advantage of higher octane fuel. For example the VW 2.0L TSI is designed to run ok on regular, but it detunes itself slightly to eliminate knocking. If you run it on premium, the tune changes and you get measurably more power out of it.

 

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I'm not sure how the US vs Maple Leaf definitions of octane might differ. From an engineering point of view, octane is a measure of the anti-knock resistance of the fuel as compared to 100% octane (a specific hydrocarbon chemical) in a standard test engine. More resistance to knock [pre ignition] results in a higher number. ie, the timing of the standard engine can be advanced just so far when running 100% octane. That number defines 100 octane. The test fuel is run and if the timing can be advanced less before the engine knocks it is lower octane.
That test is not specific or unique to a country or continent. It can be repeated anywhere.
You must not be an engineer because from an engineering point of view there are several different prominently used octane ratings: RON, MON, and a blend of the two called AKI or (R + M)/2, RdON, aviation lean, aviation rich, and Octane Index. Possibly others.

The US uses AKI and most of Europe uses RON. I don't know what Canada uses.
 

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You are correct that some engines will adjust the tune, but the owners manual will always state the optimum Octane rating the engine is tuned for. I have a Porsche which requires 93 Octane, but will run at lower power on 87 which is regular in Canada. I always try to use the highest octane I can find because I know that my engine is rated for it. I actually have S/C it so a higher octane than 93 would also be beneficial if could find it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Good explanation from Oregon TDI, but I agree with Livo928, using a higher octane than what is recommended by the manufacturer is a waste of money.

I've also read that running a higher octane may lead the car to becoming high octane dependant due to carbon build up in the cylinder from unburned fuel, as high octane has a slower burn than regular.
 

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You are correct that some engines will adjust the tune, but the owners manual will always state the optimum Octane rating the engine is tuned for. I have a Porsche which requires 93 Octane, but will run at lower power on 87 which is regular in Canada. I always try to use the highest octane I can find because I know that my engine is rated for it. I actually have S/C it so a higher octane than 93 would also be beneficial if could find it.
I used to use Mohawk 94 Octane in my Talon turbo. Since I have only driven diesels for the past 12 years, I'm not sure if they still have 94.
 

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Very difficult to find and mainly only in US...unless you go to a race track which can go as high as 104 that I have seen.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
 

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You must not be an engineer because from an engineering point of view there are several different prominently used octane ratings: RON, MON, and a blend of the two called AKI or (R + M)/2, RdON, aviation lean, aviation rich, and Octane Index. Possibly others.

The US uses AKI and most of Europe uses RON. I don't know what Canada uses.
I AM an engineer - but I am not a petroleum engineer. What I posted is the basic definition of what octane is: a measure of the burn rate as indicated by knocking and its relationship to a standard and reproducible fuel - the chemical 100% Octane. All in a standard test engine. I said nothing about how the numbers in Canada or the US relate to that standard or any differences which may exist between them.
 

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Curious observation that I cannot support searching the internet.....

I'm driving a 2016 3.6 V6, the owners manual and sticker inside of the gas door recommends regular gas. I generally use Shell in Canada, but I have used another Top Tier brand when a Shell station isn't handy.

Daily commutes to work I get 10.3 L per 100Kms, its been consistently averaging that since I got the vehicle in July.

Last week, I drove to Buffalo to pick up my daughter and filled up with some brand I never heard of, I was in a hurry and didn't feel like driving around to find another station. On the trip home (4 hour drive), I noticed that my mileage was less on the return trip. I chalked that up to using a non Top Tier fuel.

A few days later I returned her to Buffalo and filled up at a Sunoco Station in Buffalo, I was below 1/4 tank. Sunoco I believe is a Top Tier. There was no improvement in Mileage.

This week, my daily commutes have been as low as 10.8 and as high as 11.3L per 100Kms. Roughly using 0.5L per 100Kms more than normal. The temperatures have remained mild and I am not aware of any other influences that could affect the mileage.

My only assumption, is besides ethanol which is up to 10% in regular gas in Canada, what else is in US gas that could affect mileage?

I'm going to run this tank down before putting in fresh fuel. I'm really curious if my mileage will improve.

Is anyone aware of a difference? I did find this one article, but it really doesn't tell much

Is Canadian gas better than American gas? - The Globe and Mail

thanks
brian


HI Brian,


I lived on the Canada/US border for a while and regularly went to the US to fill up. In my 2004 Touareg I didn't notice any big difference in either, keeping in mind the long cue at the border crossing where sitting in the cue could have a minor effect. I didn't see any difference in mileage or performance. One thing to note though is gas in the US is about 30 to 35% cheaper than in Canada (after the exchange rate). So even after the bridge toll and 4% increase in fuel economy you still saved more by filling up in the US.
 

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Could be drawing conclusions from only a few US fills at crummy stations? Even good stations sometimes have bad fuel-I was a Chevron snob for years (still think the are the best sometimes), but would occasionally get a bad tank even from them.

Proper use of octane can make a BIG difference by allowing vehicle to advance timing and lower RPM shift points. I once had a VW GLI DSG that was this...very noticeable difference in power OR mpg.

It is legal in the US for Premium grade fuels to NOT contain any ethanol-you can find so called "pure gas" stations...this is important for marine engines, motor cycles, and older vehicles. I wonder if my old 07 would even notice...
 

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Could be drawing conclusions from only a few US fills at crummy stations? Even good stations sometimes have bad fuel-I was a Chevron snob for years (still think the are the best sometimes), but would occasionally get a bad tank even from them.

Proper use of octane can make a BIG difference by allowing vehicle to advance timing and lower RPM shift points. I once had a VW GLI DSG that was this...very noticeable difference in power OR mpg.

It is legal in the US for Premium grade fuels to NOT contain any ethanol-you can find so called "pure gas" stations...this is important for marine engines, motor cycles, and older vehicles. I wonder if my old 07 would even notice...
You make a valid point. Bad gas can be had anywhere.

I remember reading a few years back where some gas stations were allowing chemicals to be added to their tanks so they could be disposed of by burning through a vehicle's system. These stations would get a kick back and it was legal.

Is this still a practice in the US? It was never permitted in Canada. Could this be the difference?
 
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