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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi lads.
I have encountered a fault that was feared by all V10 owners. I have seen a lot of us, here, and on other forums looking for help, or information regarding the " 18360 " and " 18361 " fault codes. These are the bank 1 and bank 2 turbocharger control module faults. Factory protocol suggests that one may check the free movement of the actuator linkage, which is a good first guess, but I would advise to do that when the engine is hot. My theory is, when the engine is below 70 degrees C, the control module, or the main ECU is more tolerant about faults, as it anticipates that something is not working properly as long as the moving parts, oil, or the catalitic converter is below optimum temperature. As the heat rises to an adequate 70 deg C in VCDS, the instrument cluster will show 90, so the driver may step on it, and the actual temp may rise faster. At this point if something is wrong, the computers will not dismiss it anymore.

The C clip can be relatively easily popped off of the control module's pin, so the pushrod can be detached, and you may push it up and let it fall a few times while the turbocharger is hot. If it moves freely your mechanical parts inside the charger should be fine. But beware, that if you move the lever too far forward, or rearwards, the pushrod's upper pin will lock up, as that pin only allows for a left-right (towards engine-towards wheel) direction of movement, and only a limited longitudinal play, so do not be alarmed if it fails to fall down by it's own weight when pushed too far fore, or rearwards...

The mechanical part being free to move when hot, our next guess is someting in the control module. Leave the pushrod detached, and make sure it will not get caught when the actuator moves. Fire up the VCDS and go to the ECU in which you have the fault code. Try and delete it. Go back, then again go into the fault codes list. If the fault code came back then it is a still ongoing problem. Go back, and read Measuring group No. 58. This should be the
1/ Expected boost pressure
2/ Actual boost pressure
3/ Errors in bin bits
4/ Errors in bin bits
Due to the scarsity of the information I will try to name each of those bits of what they represent, but be advised, I have a Hungarian version, which have been translated possibly from English, with varying rate of clarity, and now I'm trying to translate it back again...
Each of those bits should be 0, that means no problem with that, if you have a 1 somewhere, that would mean an error that the module is seeing in this moment, as these parameters are monitored my the module constantly, and if they disappear, the fault is gone in that moment.
So we have two batches of eight units, here are the first few from left to right:
1 Sensor offset value beyond threshold
2 Sensor amplification beyond threshold
3 Sensor threshold faulty
4 Driver temperature too high
5 Driver current too high
6 PWM period time beyond threshold
7 PWM too low
8 PWM too high
Even I dont understand most of these, but I think most of these is not fixable. The PWM should be regulated by some sort of a resonator, if it is broken the whole circuit board should be replaced. The driver I believe is the final amplifier of the motor, if it's temp is too high some of the transistors might have been broken, or is the amps are too high, possibly the motor is shorted, and killed the driver, but we will see into the motor later. The sensor is a sort of weird proximity inductance sensor, it does not wear out like potentiometers, but if they are damaged, either on the shaft of the actuator, or on the board, I dont think that they can be saved. So effectively, if any of the first eight digits are 1, then I think it is damaged beyond repair. A new module is not that expensive, but you will have to find someone who can adapt your car's CAN system to the new modules address, and name and what not... The second eight is more interesting:
1 unknown
2 Voltage beyond threshold
3 Actuator position too low
4 Actuator position too high
5 CAN communication error
6 RAM error
7 ROM error
8 EEPROM error
I think you can see we can do nothing about the RAM or ROM errors, they are in some of the chips on the board, it is beyond the DIY-ness of this troubleshoot session, and also beyond me... I have tube radios for god's sake... The CAN error can easily be a snapped wire somewhere, as the CAN uses a High bus and a Low bus line, and they are running to both turbos. The protective plastic tube thingy that is covering the cables are usually gone by now, so it is possible that one of those wires are rubbing against the block, or some other metal thing, grounding the communication lines, although in that case probably both turbos control module would notice that as they share the same two cables. The Voltage problem can be the same story, some wire is shorting out, or a ground point somewhere is corroded away, not being able to pass 12 volts worth of amps... One ground point is just next to the two ECUs at the right hand side of the widshield under the plastic cover... The wipers have to come off. While youre at it, splash some grease in the wiper mechanism. You could take it off completely and take the axle's out as well, as they are steel in aluminium bushings with no bearings, so after 15 or so years a bit of love could mean another 20 years of service... I believe another gound point is somewhere near the fusebox. Clean them and see if that did the trick.

Now we are at the fun part, if both position too high and too low is stated as error ( something like 00110000), that means I believe, that the motor can not turn the mechanism, and it thinks that the actuator has reached the end of travel in both directions... If the pushrod moves freely, then it has to be an internal problem. After I battled with this problem for one and a half year, I was less than concerned about the warranty so as a last ditch effort I removed the actuator. The engine does not have to come out thank god, as I just put it back in a couple of weeks before. I have checked the whole cable loom, and replaced all of the protective plastic tubing just because of why notness... It wasn't that. Dont waste your time draining the power steering if your left turbo is the problem, you just take the three screws out, and then you can disconnect the wire. But dont forget to reconnect it before you put it back on... And for god's sake if you do this on the ground and lift the car up using the Xtreme height, switch the jack mode on, AND put some jacks under the subframe front and rear, or if you lift the car a bit your stomach, or chest or someting, that damned thing will lower itself on you, and... you can guess. Jacks, or jackstands!

Now we are in the finishing line, you have the actuator, remove the six C clips that hold the plastic to the metal. Pull the whole thing apart, but pull it in a way, so that the the two parts remain paralell to each other, dont pull just one side. There should be no cables connceting the two. For starters, you can go ahead and measure the resistance of the motor. it should be around 10 ohms, plus minus 2 I guess... It could be even a 100 or 200 when it is bad. Mine was 250. The reason for that is the motor's copper commutators oxidised, limiting the current that the motor can take, and this will limit the torque the motor can create. This, and the fact that the rotor is wound using relatively thin copper wire, which has a positive thermal coefficient to resistance, so as the engine warms up, the natural resistance of the motor will increase slightly, further lowering the current that can pass through it. Since mine was about 200 ohms, it is about 20 times greater than it should have been, so 20 times less current, bigger voltage drop through the motor, and resulting in a total of 5% power output compared to the nominal... That would increase the voltage, and fool the control unit into thinking that there is a restriction in movement. I think you could figure out how to take it apart, but be advised that there is a round cap in the end of the housing, under which is a screw holding the motor. That cap could be removed using a flat screwdriver. On the motor, there is a plastic housing with the two connectors, and some windings. You would have to pry at least one of the contacts off of the motor, in order to be able to fold that unit out of the way. The two little pegs holding the motor's cap can be a pain to fold out, but it can be done. Using a piece of scotchbright crean up the commutator surface, until it has a bright brass color. Mine was completely black... The other thing is the soldering on the board. You might alredy see it, two massive blobs of incompetence.
244121

The problem is, the board is glued to the housing, but the contacts are fixed to the perimeter. When thermal expansion happens, those blobs will not give enough room, or slack, so the soldering can crack. If that happens, god knows when will it disconnect, or connect, hot or cold, or even hitting a pothole might be enough to set off the fault code. Try and mimic the other soldered wires, with a somewhat bigger cable, as theoretically 1.5 Amps can be going through them. I'd say twice as thick a cable should be adequate. Try and make the same triangular shape to allow for thermal expansion. Finally put an infinitely small amount of oil on the motors bearings, then you are done. Reverse order, dont forget the cable first, and happy Treg days four you. Probably....

Interestingly, all the official books, and manuals tell you that you must never replace the actuator only. Probably because an actuator is about 80 quid, or a hundred bucks, and the whole charger is at least 1200 quid, or 1600 bucks... Good strategy.. And also, the so called "Genuine" german parts are either assembled in china, or the OEM Genuine parts may be assembled in germany or poland... Using the same parts as the other... So motors are almost definetly chineese, and some rebuilt parts are just like what I have described above... Sloppy work with shoddy parts. If you want it to work do it yourself. Even if you have a 100 Grand car... I hope that some of you might find this helpful. Other might only find it mildly interesting :D

So long volks!
Steven
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks mate, I just wanted to spare the rest of the V10 owners from the same one and a half year I had 😀 And a massivr amount of money, as everyone says you have to change the whole turbo for 1200 quid each, plus labour... And probably this was all you had to do, resolder a terminal... That or about 4 or 5 grand worth of bill, and even then it is possible that the ''new'' turbo controller may die a few months later. Mine is actually about two years old... That's what I mean with the ''new'' stuff. Glorious innit? 😂
 

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Hi lads.
I have encountered a fault that was feared by all V10 owners. I have seen a lot of us, here, and on other forums looking for help, or information regarding the " 18360 " and " 18361 " fault codes. These are the bank 1 and bank 2 turbocharger control module faults. Factory protocol suggests that one may check the free movement of the actuator linkage, which is a good first guess, but I would advise to do that when the engine is hot. My theory is, when the engine is below 70 degrees C, the control module, or the main ECU is more tolerant about faults, as it anticipates that something is not working properly as long as the moving parts, oil, or the catalitic converter is below optimum temperature. As the heat rises to an adequate 70 deg C in VCDS, the instrument cluster will show 90, so the driver may step on it, and the actual temp may rise faster. At this point if something is wrong, the computers will not dismiss it anymore.

The C clip can be relatively easily popped off of the control module's pin, so the pushrod can be detached, and you may push it up and let it fall a few times while the turbocharger is hot. If it moves freely your mechanical parts inside the charger should be fine. But beware, that if you move the lever too far forward, or rearwards, the pushrod's upper pin will lock up, as that pin only allows for a left-right (towards engine-towards wheel) direction of movement, and only a limited longitudinal play, so do not be alarmed if it fails to fall down by it's own weight when pushed too far fore, or rearwards...

The mechanical part being free to move when hot, our next guess is someting in the control module. Leave the pushrod detached, and make sure it will not get caught when the actuator moves. Fire up the VCDS and go to the ECU in which you have the fault code. Try and delete it. Go back, then again go into the fault codes list. If the fault code came back then it is a still ongoing problem. Go back, and read Measuring group No. 58. This should be the
1/ Expected boost pressure
2/ Actual boost pressure
3/ Errors in bin bits
4/ Errors in bin bits
Due to the scarsity of the information I will try to name each of those bits of what they represent, but be advised, I have a Hungarian version, which have been translated possibly from English, with varying rate of clarity, and now I'm trying to translate it back again...
Each of those bits should be 0, that means no problem with that, if you have a 1 somewhere, that would mean an error that the module is seeing in this moment, as these parameters are monitored my the module constantly, and if they disappear, the fault is gone in that moment.
So we have two batches of eight units, here are the first few from left to right:
1 Sensor offset value beyond threshold
2 Sensor amplification beyond threshold
3 Sensor threshold faulty
4 Driver temperature too high
5 Driver current too high
6 PWM period time beyond threshold
7 PWM too low
8 PWM too high
Even I dont understand most of these, but I think most of these is not fixable. The PWM should be regulated by some sort of a resonator, if it is broken the whole circuit board should be replaced. The driver I believe is the final amplifier of the motor, if it's temp is too high some of the transistors might have been broken, or is the amps are too high, possibly the motor is shorted, and killed the driver, but we will see into the motor later. The sensor is a sort of weird proximity inductance sensor, it does not wear out like potentiometers, but if they are damaged, either on the shaft of the actuator, or on the board, I dont think that they can be saved. So effectively, if any of the first eight digits are 1, then I think it is damaged beyond repair. A new module is not that expensive, but you will have to find someone who can adapt your car's CAN system to the new modules address, and name and what not... The second eight is more interesting:
1 unknown
2 Voltage beyond threshold
3 Actuator position too low
4 Actuator position too high
5 CAN communication error
6 RAM error
7 ROM error
8 EEPROM error
I think you can see we can do nothing about the RAM or ROM errors, they are in some of the chips on the board, it is beyond the DIY-ness of this troubleshoot session, and also beyond me... I have tube radios for god's sake... The CAN error can easily be a snapped wire somewhere, as the CAN uses a High bus and a Low bus line, and they are running to both turbos. The protective plastic tube thingy that is covering the cables are usually gone by now, so it is possible that one of those wires are rubbing against the block, or some other metal thing, grounding the communication lines, although in that case probably both turbos control module would notice that as they share the same two cables. The Voltage problem can be the same story, some wire is shorting out, or a ground point somewhere is corroded away, not being able to pass 12 volts worth of amps... One ground point is just next to the two ECUs at the right hand side of the widshield under the plastic cover... The wipers have to come off. While youre at it, splash some grease in the wiper mechanism. You could take it off completely and take the axle's out as well, as they are steel in aluminium bushings with no bearings, so after 15 or so years a bit of love could mean another 20 years of service... I believe another gound point is somewhere near the fusebox. Clean them and see if that did the trick.

Now we are at the fun part, if both position too high and too low is stated as error ( something like 00110000), that means I believe, that the motor can not turn the mechanism, and it thinks that the actuator has reached the end of travel in both directions... If the pushrod moves freely, then it has to be an internal problem. After I battled with this problem for one and a half year, I was less than concerned about the warranty so as a last ditch effort I removed the actuator. The engine does not have to come out thank god, as I just put it back in a couple of weeks before. I have checked the whole cable loom, and replaced all of the protective plastic tubing just because of why notness... It wasn't that. Dont waste your time draining the power steering if your left turbo is the problem, you just take the three screws out, and then you can disconnect the wire. But dont forget to reconnect it before you put it back on... And for god's sake if you do this on the ground and lift the car up using the Xtreme height, switch the jack mode on, AND put some jacks under the subframe front and rear, or if you lift the car a bit your stomach, or chest or someting, that damned thing will lower itself on you, and... you can guess. Jacks, or jackstands!

Now we are in the finishing line, you have the actuator, remove the six C clips that hold the plastic to the metal. Pull the whole thing apart, but pull it in a way, so that the the two parts remain paralell to each other, dont pull just one side. There should be no cables connceting the two. For starters, you can go ahead and measure the resistance of the motor. it should be around 10 ohms, plus minus 2 I guess... It could be even a 100 or 200 when it is bad. Mine was 250. The reason for that is the motor's copper commutators oxidised, limiting the current that the motor can take, and this will limit the torque the motor can create. This, and the fact that the rotor is wound using relatively thin copper wire, which has a positive thermal coefficient to resistance, so as the engine warms up, the natural resistance of the motor will increase slightly, further lowering the current that can pass through it. Since mine was about 200 ohms, it is about 20 times greater than it should have been, so 20 times less current, bigger voltage drop through the motor, and resulting in a total of 5% power output compared to the nominal... That would increase the voltage, and fool the control unit into thinking that there is a restriction in movement. I think you could figure out how to take it apart, but be advised that there is a round cap in the end of the housing, under which is a screw holding the motor. That cap could be removed using a flat screwdriver. On the motor, there is a plastic housing with the two connectors, and some windings. You would have to pry at least one of the contacts off of the motor, in order to be able to fold that unit out of the way. The two little pegs holding the motor's cap can be a pain to fold out, but it can be done. Using a piece of scotchbright crean up the commutator surface, until it has a bright brass color. Mine was completely black... The other thing is the soldering on the board. You might alredy see it, two massive blobs of incompetence.
View attachment 244121
The problem is, the board is glued to the housing, but the contacts are fixed to the perimeter. When thermal expansion happens, those blobs will not give enough room, or slack, so the soldering can crack. If that happens, god knows when will it disconnect, or connect, hot or cold, or even hitting a pothole might be enough to set off the fault code. Try and mimic the other soldered wires, with a somewhat bigger cable, as theoretically 1.5 Amps can be going through them. I'd say twice as thick a cable should be adequate. Try and make the same triangular shape to allow for thermal expansion. Finally put an infinitely small amount of oil on the motors bearings, then you are done. Reverse order, dont forget the cable first, and happy Treg days four you. Probably....

Interestingly, all the official books, and manuals tell you that you must never replace the actuator only. Probably because an actuator is about 80 quid, or a hundred bucks, and the whole charger is at least 1200 quid, or 1600 bucks... Good strategy.. And also, the so called "Genuine" german parts are either assembled in china, or the OEM Genuine parts may be assembled in germany or poland... Using the same parts as the other... So motors are almost definetly chineese, and some rebuilt parts are just like what I have described above... Sloppy work with shoddy parts. If you want it to work do it yourself. Even if you have a 100 Grand car... I hope that some of you might find this helpful. Other might only find it mildly interesting :D

So long volks!
Steven
Wow, thanks for that, what an amazing write up you have given us. I lose sleep over these thoughts of V10 turbo fault codes but your input has probably given me back some sleep now.

Thank you!

Kind regards

Pete
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've just realised I've never shown you the mess around the solderings... Well that's that. That might be a pain to clean up, but it's worth it.
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i had a 1952 code for the turbos bank 1.. but i've had it occasionally going in limp mode for 2 years and when it goes into limp mode i just pull over and restart it and its fine. this usually only happens on the first start of the day... i had my actuator replaced and it still occasionally does it. also i have a parrot phone Bluetooth setup in my v-10 and upon starting it will say "phone on" and when it doesn't it is in limp mode. i would say that it throws a code maybe once or twice a year, which i delete and then no code... It really seams like an electrical issue?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i had a 1952 code for the turbos bank 1.. but i've had it occasionally going in limp mode for 2 years and when it goes into limp mode i just pull over and restart it and its fine. this usually only happens on the first start of the day... i had my actuator replaced and it still occasionally does it. also i have a parrot phone Bluetooth setup in my v-10 and upon starting it will say "phone on" and when it doesn't it is in limp mode. i would say that it throws a code maybe once or twice a year, which i delete and then no code... It really seams like an electrical issue?
The next time it does it, don't delete the fault code. It should list a ''freeze frame'' data under the fault code, with some pressures, and a bunch of 0's and some 1's. Copy it, ot take a photo, or sreenshot, so I can see which digit is triggering the fault.
 

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The next time it does it, don't delete the fault code. It should list a ''freeze frame'' data under the fault code, with some pressures, and a bunch of 0's and some 1's. Copy it, ot take a photo, or sreenshot, so I can see which digit is triggering the fault.
Will do and thank you
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
That looks to me to be somewhat the same problem. First I would clean up the ground contact in the right hand side of the engine bay, under the plastic cover. If that's not it, I yould check the free movement of the pushrod. If it is not sticking, or hard to move, as described above, you should make a basic setting, so that the module re-learns where are the end positions. To do that, you'd need a vcds cable, safety login 12233, basic settings channel 011, then go. Click the basic setting ON just once, then it will do its thing for a couple of minutes. If that's not it, you could check the internals of the module. These ''rebuilt'' modules are usually quite badly made, and it could be a bad connection. It would take a weekend to get it out, check the solderings, clean the motors commutators, and use some heat resistant grease on the little cogs and wheels. The right hand turbo is actually not that bad to reach, but it is fiddly. The bin bits say 00100000, that is ''actuator position too low'', so I think it cant reach the uppermost position that it thinks should be possible. If other times it works fine, then it is probably something you can mend with a soldering iron, some scothchbright, and some time.
 
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