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3L TDI / CATA / CNRB - VCDS chain stretch

22878 Views 224 Replies 44 Participants Last post by  SaVAGeSoot
This post might just break this forum, as just about anyone I've ever met with a 3L TDI wants some sort of ability to check the potential doom of their timing chain skipping.

Edit:
Since there aren't too many users reporting values at the moment, I will keep updating the table for now to provide an easy to read reference.
UserEngineOdometer (k)Adaptation (º)START Rattle (Y/N)OCI (k)
SaVAGeSootCNRB93-4.15N10
buckwheatCNRB119-4.7Y10, 6.7
ToolmanJohnCNRB117-3.82N10
ATSToddCNRB159-4.92N10
SuprollaCATA152-1.5N7.5
DashParrCNRB209-2.97??
josiah47CATA120-2.3N10
ValveCoverGasketCATA126-2.07N10
Tyler ScalzoCNRB102-2.9?7.5
maintenance247CNRB119-2.59N7.5
yeti007CVVA59-3.86N8.5
BrendanmCRCA198-4.6Y10
iSagenCASA109-1.85N10
VaNSqLCATA135-0.86N6.2
GoldsburgCNRB137-5.0Y5
werdnaCNRB127-3.8N5
alfissimoCNRB83-4.48N?
renjean1CNRB157-4.83??
Lance_1CNRB230-5.16Y~10
20bugsysCATA104-4.15Y?
mickblouin84CNRB186-15.1N?
DEZL_PWRCNRB55-1.6N10
SceepCNRB151-5.12N10
VelochCRCA127-3.8Y10
nicholaschase29CNRB145-4.55Y10
buyingconstant7CNRB112-1.21N6.2
keaton85CNRB197-4.55Y?
Thumper3CNRB99-2.31N4.5
MerunrunCNRB41-2.6N?
jatan231CRCA107-1.65Y?
Dannyboy485CNRB130-2.29N10
buyingconstant7CNRB180-3.96?10
drjonezCATA160-2.22Y10
WeekevCRCA75-1.5Y6.2
The following information is what I've learned from reading way too many posts on the subject.

I strongly suggest that anyone with the ability to post their own details contributes to this so that we can come up with some consensus of potential feasibility.

Here are my values.
CNRB with ~150k (km)
I don't have any noticeable rattle or noise concerns.
You want your engine warmish fully warmed up before taking the reading.
Address 01: Engine (7P0 907 401 K)

19:10:21
IDE00021 Engine RPM 713 /min
IDE00025 Coolant temperature 61º C
IDE00182 Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1: phase position -4.15º
IDE00196 Engine oil temperature 59.1º C
You're interested in the adaptation value. Ideally, it's zero, but as your chains wear, they will get noisy and once you get around -8 to -9 you can expect a failure. At that point you should have a significant amount of rattle, especially on cold startups.

People with short OCIs and quiet chains report being around the -5 value at about 100-120k miles.

Post your details and let's see if there's any truth to these rumors!
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I am reporting that I have not had a timing chain failure. My assumption/understanding is that timing chain stretch alters (retards) camshaft timing and can significantly impair power output. I suspect this (and how much free time I have) will be what drives me to replace the timing chains/guides/tensioners rather than fear of catastrophic engine failure.
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I am reporting that I have not had a timing chain failure. My assumption/understanding is that timing chain stretch alters (retards) camshaft timing and can significantly impair power output. I suspect this (and how much free time I have) will be what drives me to replace the timing chains/guides/tensioners rather than fear of catastrophic engine failure.
Based on @mickblouin84 's report of "everything is fine" at that value, you should be OK for lifetime!

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But all jokes aside, I'm really hoping to get some sort of validation of what kind of value would be a flag for a concern in the end.
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Reviving this just to post my results. I have 180,000kms on mine. I’m the second owner and the previous owner did oil changes every 10,000kms which I think is a perfect interval for these units.

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Added.
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Forgot to add, I DO experience chain rattle. Not often but if I want to make it do it, I can. Never on a cold start, never on a hot start, but always on a hot soak for anywhere from 30mins up to 2 hours.
My results:
2013 with 197k miles and a reading of 4.55 degrees. Chain rattle on cold start for a half second. Unknown OCI, yet I will be doing 10K with Rotella T6.
I just scrolled through every advanced measuring block on my 09 CATA and did not see cam adaptation. FWIW I've never had a rattle at 116K mi but that's useless here.

seems there's a workaround to get this info so I'll keep plugging
Read #29... You may need to do a channel map as there might not be label files for your specific controller
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Adding my info.

Engine CNRB

OCI - every 4000-5000 miles since we bought the car with 32,000 miles on it, current mileage 99,017 miles

No chain rattle at cold or warm start




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OCI - every 4000-5000 miles
Wow, that’s some short OCIs!
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Wow, that’s some short OCIs!
Throwing away good oil :p
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Throwing away good oil :p
Nah, I recycle it and oil is cheaper than an engine. :LOL: I live in farm country, lots of dirt and dust and pollen in the air just, never saw the point in trying to squeeze every last foot of mileage out of a quart of oil.

Plus, forgot to mention while on track weekends where I did not spring for a track garage and/or weather is miserable the Touareg is used as a shelter for heat/AC so more time on the engine than just mileage sometimes.
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Many TDI engines of varies flavors that go into the 300k-400k range with 10k to even 20k OCIs. To short of an interval has actually been shown to increase wear due to the additive pack in the initial new oil. A few UOI on TDIclub forum that has found even a 20k OCI was still in good standing.

Anyway, each their own, I figured I can replace the engine for about the same cost of to frequent OCIs if that rarity does happen.
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Many TDI engines of varies flavors that go into the 300k-400k range with 10k to even 20k OCIs. To short of an interval has actually been shown to increase wear due to the additive pack in the initial new oil. A few UOI on TDIclub forum that has found even a 20k OCI was still in good standing.

Anyway, each their own, I figured I can replace the engine for about the same cost of to frequent OCIs if that rarity does happen.
I would love to see some scientific data on that for sure if available because I'm no spring chicken and never heard that before. In the meantime if anyone wants to buy my used oil at my next change I'll make you a good deal. :D

In reality it wouldn't change much at this point anyway as it's not my daily and after the Allroad we ordered comes in it will be down to a single highway commute once a week to keep it in service and then the tow duties to track weekends, probably won't even have 7000 miles a year.
never saw the point in trying to squeeze every last foot of mileage out of a quart of oil.
Try getting an oil analysis
It'll pay for itself the first time it saves you one of those overly frequent changes...

I would love to see some scientific data on that for sure
See above...
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In the meantime if anyone wants to buy my used oil at my next change I'll make you a good deal. :D
Hold while I reach out to my cheap faq yota friends...... ;)
I would love to see some scientific data on that for sure if available because I'm no spring chicken and never heard that before. In the meantime if anyone wants to buy my used oil at my next change I'll make you a good deal. :D

In reality it wouldn't change much at this point anyway as it's not my daily and after the Allroad we ordered comes in it will be down to a single highway commute once a week to keep it in service and then the tow duties to track weekends, probably won't even have 7000 miles a year.
Here is one: Changing oil too soon is bad??
Try getting an oil analysis
It'll pay for itself the first time it saves you one of those overly frequent changes...
I run regular oil analysis on every vehicle I run. Never once had them state I had higher wear than expected or to dear god let the oil sit longer. I always have life left in the oil, but again, rather have life left than an analysis that comes back "You ran this too long, the oil is trash, you caused harm to the engine.".

I'll check the references, thank you.
or to dear god let the oil sit longer.
Really?
That's one of the main features of a decent analysis to tell you how much more additive is left.
I'd recommend another lab.
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