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3L TDI / CATA / CNRB - VCDS chain stretch

24128 Views 231 Replies 47 Participants Last post by  SaVAGeSoot, 
SaVAGeSoot
This post might just break this forum, as just about anyone I've ever met with a 3L TDI wants some sort of ability to check the potential doom of their timing chain skipping.

Edit:
Since there aren't too many users reporting values at the moment, I will keep updating the table for now to provide an easy to read reference.
UserEngineOdometer (k)Adaptation (º)START Rattle (Y/N)OCI (k)
SaVAGeSootCNRB93-4.15N10
buckwheatCNRB119-4.7Y10, 6.7
ToolmanJohnCNRB117-3.82N10
ATSToddCNRB159-4.92N10
SuprollaCATA152-1.5N7.5
DashParrCNRB209-2.97??
josiah47CATA120-2.3N10
ValveCoverGasketCATA126-2.07N10
Tyler ScalzoCNRB102-2.9?7.5
maintenance247CNRB119-2.59N7.5
yeti007CVVA59-3.86N8.5
BrendanmCRCA198-4.6Y10
iSagenCASA109-1.85N10
VaNSqLCATA135-0.86N6.2
GoldsburgCNRB137-5.0Y5
werdnaCNRB127-3.8N5
alfissimoCNRB83-4.48N?
renjean1CNRB157-4.83??
Lance_1CNRB230-5.16Y~10
20bugsysCATA104-4.15Y?
mickblouin84CNRB186-15.1N?
DEZL_PWRCNRB55-1.6N10
SceepCNRB151-5.12N10
VelochCRCA127-3.8Y10
nicholaschase29CNRB145-4.55Y10
buyingconstant7CNRB112-1.21N6.2
keaton85CNRB197-4.55Y?
Thumper3CNRB99-2.31N4.5
MerunrunCNRB41-2.6N?
jatan231CRCA107-1.65Y?
Dannyboy485CNRB130-2.29N10
buyingconstant7CNRB180-3.96?10
drjonezCATA160-2.22Y10
WeekevCRCA75-1.5Y6.2
77 K20CATA198-3.19N8.5
SlowDownCATA150-5.08Y?
YarekaCNRB106-3.16??
YarekaCNRB326-6.04??
Click to expand...
The following information is what I've learned from reading way too many posts on the subject.

I strongly suggest that anyone with the ability to post their own details contributes to this so that we can come up with some consensus of potential feasibility.

Here are my values.
CNRB with ~150k (km)
I don't have any noticeable rattle or noise concerns.
You want your engine warmish fully warmed up before taking the reading.
Address 01: Engine (7P0 907 401 K)

19:10:21
IDE00021 Engine RPM 713 /min
IDE00025 Coolant temperature 61º C
IDE00182 Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1: phase position -4.15º
IDE00196 Engine oil temperature 59.1º C
Click to expand...
You're interested in the adaptation value. Ideally, it's zero, but as your chains wear, they will get noisy and once you get around -8 to -9 you can expect a failure. At that point you should have a significant amount of rattle, especially on cold startups.

People with short OCIs and quiet chains report being around the -5 value at about 100-120k miles.

Post your details and let's see if there's any truth to these rumors!
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volkswagens-for-life
keaton85 said:
Many TDI engines of varies flavors that go into the 300k-400k range with 10k to even 20k OCIs. To short of an interval has actually been shown to increase wear due to the additive pack in the initial new oil. A few UOI on TDIclub forum that has found even a 20k OCI was still in good standing.

Anyway, each their own, I figured I can replace the engine for about the same cost of to frequent OCIs if that rarity does happen.
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100%
Thumper3 said:
I would love to see some scientific data on that for sure if available because I'm no spring chicken and never heard that before. In the meantime if anyone wants to buy my used oil at my next change I'll make you a good deal. :D

In reality it wouldn't change much at this point anyway as it's not my daily and after the Allroad we ordered comes in it will be down to a single highway commute once a week to keep it in service and then the tow duties to track weekends, probably won't even have 7000 miles a year.
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There's hundreds of threads between TDI club and Bob is the oil guy of people doing oil analysis and hitting 20-30k mile oil changes. Again, research it. You seem to ask for a lot of hand holding on this forum at times.
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Thumper3
volkswagens-for-life said:
There's hundreds of threads between TDI club and Bob is the oil guy of people doing oil analysis and hitting 20-30k mile oil changes. Again, research it. You seem to ask for a lot of hand holding on this forum at times.
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Resorting to ad hominem already?

No, I ask for PROOF. There is a difference and I recommend you look into it. You also seem to change the topic when your position is weak. At no point did I dispute the length oil will go which yes is the SECONDARY purpose of an oil analysis, the first being to track wear and identify problems before they become catastrophes. In fact I already stated I know my oil has life left in it and I am ok with that. I even offered to sell you my oil if that offends you so much, I'm still waiting for the check. What I requested PROOF of was the statement that new oil damages the engine. Again I did not solicit the unsupported information that an reasonable person would question so supporting that statement is not my responsibility.

I'm sorry if it surprises you that random postings on internet forums lecturing people and telling them not to question "the science" while providing no actual science is not actual proof or science. So far the only proof presented to support the opinion given was a screaming rant post showing no documentation other than a link to an owners manual for a Cummins diesel RAM and simply asserting they were providing facts with no facts and also addressing oil life (a fact not actually in dispute).

Also note, I did not ASK for your opinion or beg for your input on what I do with MY vehicle that I am responsible for. You and others stood up and insistently and rudely presented your opinions and then act indignant when told to support those opinions. I do not need you to hold my hand when proving YOUR statements. You either prove your statements or don't, if you have no interest in supporting your position than why even take it? I guess it's because internet ink is cheap. Either way if you are annoyed trying to support the stuff you type than feel free to stop anytime, don't try to make it my fault. And trust me, anything more you type on this topic will not be for me because I could care less what you think until you start paying my maintenance bills.
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volkswagens-for-life
Thumper3 said:
Resorting to ad hominem already?

No, I ask for PROOF. There is a difference and I recommend you look into it. You also seem to change the topic when your position is weak. At no point did I dispute the length oil will go which yes is the SECONDARY purpose of an oil analysis, the first being to track wear and identify problems before they become catastrophes. In fact I already stated I know my oil has life left in it and I am ok with that. I even offered to sell you my oil if that offends you so much, I'm still waiting for the check. What I requested PROOF of was the statement that new oil damages the engine. Again I did not solicit the unsupported information that an reasonable person would question so supporting that statement is not my responsibility.

I'm sorry if it surprises you that random postings on internet forums lecturing people and telling them not to question "the science" while providing no actual science is not actual proof or science. So far the only proof presented to support the opinion given was a screaming rant post showing no documentation other than a link to an owners manual for a Cummins diesel RAM and simply asserting they were providing facts with no facts and also addressing oil life (a fact not actually in dispute).

Also note, I did not ASK for your opinion or beg for your input on what I do with MY vehicle that I am responsible for. You and others stood up and insistently and rudely presented your opinions and then act indignant when told to support those opinions. I do not need you to hold my hand when proving YOUR statements. You either prove your statements or don't, if you have no interest in supporting your position than why even take it? I guess it's because internet ink is cheap. Either way if you are annoyed trying to support the stuff you type than feel free to stop anytime, don't try to make it my fault. And trust me, anything more you type on this topic will not be for me because I could care less what you think until you start paying my maintenance bills.
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Jesus you must be bored as ****

I've owned TDI's for 15 years now and researched them into oblivion. I've seen the OA's.

You constantly say "I would love to see data on that" and not once have I seen you spent 3 seconds researching on your own. I'm way too busy to be hands holding but have a moment to spare to aim you in the right direction. TDI club and Bob is the oil guy has hundred of threads with millions of miles of OA's on the 2.0 and 3.0 TDI. Spend more time researching and less time spouting useless bullshit.

Almost your bed time I take it. Adios 🤙
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keaton85
alright you two! I know I started it but still just chill…
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SaVAGeSoot
So I guess I'm the only enthusiast who's never gotten a OA done on any vehicle I've ever owned? VAG or otherwise!
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V
SaVAGeSoot said:
So I guess I'm the only enthusiast who's never gotten a OA done on any vehicle I've ever owned? VAG or otherwise!
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2500 OCI makes me pretty nervous.

I like to let it drain out as soon as I pour it in.
British cars are nice this way also. It's forever semi-full of fresh oil.
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Thumper3
volkswagens-for-life said:
I've owned TDI's for 15 years now and researched them into oblivion. I've seen the OA's.
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Yeah but supposedly you ran a trucking company forever and a day and yet you still believe that horsepower makes a tow rating and not frame and axle design. So.........


keaton85 said:
alright you two! I know I started it but still just chill…
Click to expand...
I'm chilled. :cool:

I came here to provide data on my rig to assist the community. That's been done. Moving on.
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keaton85
SaVAGeSoot said:
So I guess I'm the only enthusiast who's never gotten a OA done on any vehicle I've ever owned? VAG or otherwise!
Click to expand...
I’ve never gotten one, since it’s so extremely rare to have premature failure on an engine with the miles I’ve had on them. Even working in a shop as a tech for many years I never saw a single engine failure due to oil. As long as the engine doesn’t have any inherent design flaws like, oil sludge on the 1.8T, lifter issues on the BRM, or HPFP lifter on the 2.0T. All that kind of stuff really screws with extended OCIs. Ohhh, and oil control rings on a lot of the engines that keep using 20 weight oil and poor oil control ring designs.

I have sent out many oil samples for large main/gen engines on boats as that kind of replacement is in the hundreds of thousands.
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SaVAGeSoot
Thumper3 said:
I came here to provide data on my rig to assist the community
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Info added.
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volkswagens-for-life
Thumper3 said:
Yeah but supposedly you ran a trucking company forever and a day and yet you still believe that horsepower makes a tow rating and not frame and axle design. So.........




I'm chilled. :cool:

I came here to provide data on my rig to assist the community. That's been done. Moving on.
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I never said horsepower makes a tow rating actually. You are the dummy that says you would rather have your low horsepower high torque diesel over something with more horsepower. I simply stated I would take something with more horsepower any day of the week based on my vast experiences.
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Merunrun
2015 3.0 TDI CNRB
engine fully warm
No chain rattle
66,263km
-2.6
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SaVAGeSoot
Added
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J
2014 3.0 TDi (CNRB ?)
Coolant: 72 deg.C
Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1: phase position -1.65 deg
Oil temp: 79.4 deg.c
171601 km

I have a rattle at times during warm start...
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SaVAGeSoot
jatan231 said:
2014 3.0 TDi (CNRB ?)
Coolant: 72 deg.C
Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1: phase position -1.65 deg
Oil temp: 79.4 deg.c
171601 km

I have a rattle at times during warm start...
Click to expand...
Not up to temp yet... CNRB is also NA region only..... look at your autoscan and it should show the correct engine under the controller if your label files are good.

Example
Code: 
Address 01: Engine (J623-CATA)       Labels:. 059-907-401-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 7P0 907 401 J    HW: 7P0 907 401 E
   Component: 3.0TDI FSA    H17 0008
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SaVAGeSoot
@jatan231
Added.
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J
SaVAGeSoot said:
Not up to temp yet... CNRB is also NA region only..... look at your autoscan and it should show the correct engine under the controller if your label files are good.

Example
Code: 
Address 01: Engine (J623-CATA)       Labels:. 059-907-401-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 7P0 907 401 J    HW: 7P0 907 401 E
   Component: 3.0TDI FSA    H17 0008
Click to expand...

I went for a (35 min / +- 35 km @ 120 km/h average) spirited drive and took the measurements again...
It read just about the same values as before...
The temperatures were within a degree or two from what I supplied before also..., so if the car is not warm
The temps is what it is... if it is not warm yet, then I don't know what it will take to get it "warmed up"...

Engine Code: CRCA
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Dannyboy485
Late to the party....

2013
CNRB
210000kms
Chain rattle for 0.5 second when below freezing, sometimes no rattle. none when warm
OCI 15k T6 rotella or whatever 0W40 is on the shelf
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SaVAGeSoot
Added
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Bracus
I have 2015 CNRB and I have VCDS. I assume this isn’t just checked with an auto scan. Does anyone have explanation of how to check these values?
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SaVAGeSoot
Read post #7, #9, #10, etc......
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