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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking into buying a low mileage 2016 TDI. Reading this forum it sounds like a pain in the butt. Some people report needing to add AdBlue every 3000 miles or so. (This sounds like an oputlier though.) More troubling, there seems to be an issue around cold start at temp even as warm as 20 degrees f? I mean that's cold, but certainly not frigid or unusual for the fairly moderate Mid Atlantic U.S. It seems to me that at a minimum we want our vehicles to start every time, Then there's the reports that the vehicle warms up more slowly than the gasser on cold mornings increasing the frigid factor. .Yet the TDI's are very popular. What gives?.
 

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No idea where you are getting this info.
Even though I have a 2014 (more or less the same everything with the exception of some driving aids compared to a 2016 model), mine (and everyone else's) start reliably in all types of cool to frigid weather...... even up here in Canada.

I've also never heard of anyone needing to add DEF fluid that frequently, not even when towing very heavy loads.

Give us links to these posts as I don't know where this misinformation is coming from.

Diesels will warm up slower than a gasser.... but the Touaregs are very advanced and they have lots of high tech to combat that. Heated seats also do wonders to overcome this....
 

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I purchased a low mileage (20,400 miles) 2016 TDI on August 10th. I now have 23,300 miles on it, and so far neither issue you are concerned about. I am in Montana, coldest morning start was at about 34 F and apart from a slight delay (for pre-heating the glowplugs- about 2 seconds) no problems firing up.

You do know that even if the AdBlue is used up faster VW will pay for it to be topped off in between 10,000 mile service intervals, right? For as long as the emissions warranty is in effect- 10 years or 120,000 miles.

Warming up does seem to take longer than my previous vehicle (2012 Infiniti EX35). On average it seems to be about 10 minutes/4 miles vs about 6 minutes/2.5 miles (leaving from my house and driving through neighborhoods and city traffic). I combat the high shift points while cold by using the Tiptronic shifter, and I believe I get better mileage doing that until the vehicle is warmed up.

No regrets here, we'll see how well it does with winter morning starts at 10-15 F, I have started adding Diesel Kleen +Cetaneboost Antifreeze for the last two tanks and I don't think I have anything to worry about.
 

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I though I read somewhere here that if you turn the temp to HI when you first start up, a grid heater at the heater core turns on to warm the air while the engine is warming up. I haven't tried it on my TDI since it's my wife's daily driver so don't know if it there's any truth to it. I have both, TDI and V6 and while the V6 does warm up quicker and is faster off the line, there is no substitute for the torque of the diesel. I haven't had any issues with having to add DEF sooner than expected.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No idea where you are getting this info.
Even though I have a 2014 (more or less the same everything with the exception of some driving aids compared to a 2016 model), mine (and everyone else's) start reliably in all types of cool to frigid weather...... even up here in Canada.

I've also never heard of anyone needing to add DEF fluid that frequently, not even when towing very heavy loads.

Give us links to these posts as I don't know where this misinformation is coming from.

Diesels will warm up slower than a gasser.... but the Touaregs are very advanced and they have lots of high tech to combat that. Heated seats also do wonders to overcome this....
Here's one link. According to one poster, VW even issued a TSB on it that sounds like you need some sort of additive for cold morning starts.: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7108907

Here's post on increased AdBlue usage and the delaer saying it's normal: https://www.clubtouareg.com/threads/adblue-usage-s-post-fix.284609/.
 

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Here's a sample of the temps in my hood... Those are Celcius degrees too.... As long as your battery is in good shape, the TDI starts up no problem.

No one said that there's not an increase in DEF usage after "the fix" compared to before, but it's nowhere near the crazy interval you posted above. Most of us go at least 2x as long even when pulling heavy loads, etc.
 

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I though I read somewhere here that if you turn the temp to HI when you first start up, a grid heater at the heater core turns on to warm the air while the engine is warming up.
All 2011+ Touareg TDIs sold in NA have an electric grid heater in the HVAC assembly that turns on whenever the coolant temp is below 70˚C and the heater is set to at least 20˚C, if I recall correctly.

OP, don't worry about cold starts. These are not IDI diesels from the 70s. If you're really concerned, you can install a Eberspacher auxiliary coolant heater.

 

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If you want a trouble free car, buy a Toyota Corolla. No turbochargers to fail, no adaptive cruise failures, the navigation is reliable, and the rear driveshaft bearings rarely fail. A Touareg will never be as reliable as a Corolla, a Highlander, or your refrigerator.

To address your two questions, A Touareg TDI will start in almost any weather with the proper fuel. Where we live, that is 100% #1 diesel fuel. Gas stations know what to expect and transition fuel over accordingly.. I run that with no anti-gel additive. Even with 10 hour cold-soaks sitting outside starting at -50F and rising to a high of -35F, the car starts without even being plugged in. If the weather is much colder than the season average, the fuel from your station may not be properly winterized. This fuel may not flow and the car will not start or may stop running.This has happened to me twice in 1,000,000 miles of living with diesel vehicles north of the 48th parallel. An anti-gel additive would have prevented both cases. If this level of awareness is too much for you, I get it, but I would suggest something that runs on gasoline or electricity. Not that gasoline doesn't have issues in extreme cold....

I've been getting 7,000 - 8,000 miles between addition of urea. It is slightly more complicated than adding washer fluid. If you don't like to have to add it, I again would suggest something that runs on gasoline or electricity. On top of the maintenance and fuel awareness, be prepared for some stuff to go wrong. These are complicated cars and Volkswagen does not make have an industry reputation as having the most most robust equipment out there. If that concerns you, there are probably better choices out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
If you want a trouble free car, buy a Toyota Corolla. No turbochargers to fail, no adaptive cruise failures, the navigation is reliable, and the rear driveshaft bearings rarely fail. A Touareg will never be as reliable as a Corolla, a Highlander, or your refrigerator.

To address your two questions, A Touareg TDI will start in almost any weather with the proper fuel. Where we live, that is 100% #1 diesel fuel. Gas stations know what to expect and transition fuel over accordingly.. I run that with no anti-gel additive. Even with 10 hour cold-soaks sitting outside starting at -50F and rising to a high of -35F, the car starts without even being plugged in. If the weather is much colder than the season average, the fuel from your station may not be properly winterized. This fuel may not flow and the car will not start or may stop running.This has happened to me twice in 1,000,000 miles of living with diesel vehicles north of the 48th parallel. An anti-gel additive would have prevented both cases. If this level of awareness is too much for you, I get it, but I would suggest something that runs on gasoline or electricity. Not that gasoline doesn't have issues in extreme cold....

I've been getting 7,000 - 8,000 miles between addition of urea. It is slightly more complicated than adding washer fluid. If you don't like to have to add it, I again would suggest something that runs on gasoline or electricity. On top of the maintenance and fuel awareness, be prepared for some stuff to go wrong. These are complicated cars and Volkswagen does not make have an industry reputation as having the most most robust equipment out there. If that concerns you, there are probably better choices out there.
Haha. In terms of reliability and complexity I think there's a broad range of options between a Touraeg TDI and a Toyota Corolla.:) I truly appreciate the information though.

I test drove the TDI and as you all seem to know, it's a lot different from the gasser. It feels like the car finally gets the engine the rest of the vehicle deserves. A bit noisier at idle, but definitely smoother and quicker once it gets going. Great as the gasser is, it often feels like it's laboring a bit. Not the TDI.

Now I have to decide if I want to drive the "same" vehicle for the next 4 years or so and whether I want to accept the outdated tech, Otherwise, it has a lot of great attributes that you can only find in far more expensive vehicles.
 

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I've been getting 7,000 - 8,000 miles between addition of urea.
This seems inline with my first top-up, assuming that the dealer had it filled pre-delivery to me. I should know shortly, as I'm approaching that same mark in about a month or so, and will have a decent indication of one year's worth of mixed use, including towing, long distance drives, and regular city stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for that. I'm wondering if a local shop would do the install for me. (I can't do it.) I bet most don't like to install something they're unfamiliar with or that the customer provides. Money would be a small object if I could get a reliable carplay system in the Touareg. If I could, it would push me over to buying Touareg TDI.
 

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Thanks for that. I'm wondering if a local shop would do the install for me. (I can't do it.) I bet most don't like to install something they're unfamiliar with or that the customer provides. Money would be a small object if I could get a reliable carplay system in the Touareg. If I could, it would push me over to buying Touareg TDI.
I'm sure there is a competent auto electrician within a commute from you.

Here in northern Alberta, there is a local guy who is excellent at car electrical work. https://www.12voltwizard.com/home/. My Vdub dealership goes to him for all remote car starter and aftermarket stereo installs across all the VW models they sell. I think he would install a retrofit console into the Treg 7P for $200 - $250 CAD (i.e. $100 per hour)

_

Other electronics retrofit options to look at:

Naviplus:

Navitopia:
 

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No idea where you are getting this info.
Even though I have a 2014 (more or less the same everything with the exception of some driving aids compared to a 2016 model), mine (and everyone else's) start reliably in all types of cool to frigid weather...... even up here in Canada.

I've also never heard of anyone needing to add DEF fluid that frequently, not even when towing very heavy loads.

Give us links to these posts as I don't know where this misinformation is coming from.

Diesels will warm up slower than a gasser.... but the Touaregs are very advanced and they have lots of high tech to combat that. Heated seats also do wonders to overcome this....
I've found I add DEF about every 3000-3500 miles. When towing a 24' brick of a car trailer I add DEF about after about 600-800 miles while towing at 60-62 MPH. Honestly I don't see it as a big deal. 2.5 gallons of Def at the parts store is $12. I just buy them 2 at a time and keep one on hand. If I am towing long distances I buy two or three of them and keep them in the trailer. Full size Diesel trucks have the same issue, the amount of DEF is proportional to the amount of fuel or horse power you use. So while towing it uses more than while regular driving. DEF may be a small inconvenicence for the capability of the TDI.

Also my '13 TDI is post fix.
 

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Also I'd like to comment that even on a 20F morning my '13 TDI warms up in about 3-5 minutes. I have heated steering wheel and seats so I don't see warm up time as a big deal.
 

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I'll have to look into it. I bought the vehicle post fix so I thought this was normal. I had heard originally DEF was supposed to go ~6,000 miles between fills so that owners could go between oil changes and the dealer topped it off at oil change. But then I heard with the fix they weren't making it to oil changes between top offs. How would I figure out what is wrong with it? Is there a setting in VCDS? or is the emissions fix causing it?
 

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The fix increases usage.... towing and heavy power demands do the same.....
However, the rest of us are still getting way better results than you even when towing, etc. Your use during towing is astonishing..... you should be getting around the consumption that you're reporting "normally" when you are towing your parachute around.......

Read the FIX documentation.... VW made us aware that DEF consumption would increase by "x%" (varies with engine gen), but this increase was nowhere near the 3x\5x levels that you are reporting.
 

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I ran a 2011 TDI in the mid-Atlantic (southeast PA) for 238k miles. I got roughly 5,000 miles per tank of DEF. The DEF tank holds around 5 gallons, correct? So this is about 1,000 mpg of DEF, or thereabouts.

Re: cold starts, a non-issue. Replace the battery, this makes a difference.

Re: warmup, no different than any other vehicle with a 3.0L V6 or larger engine. Newer and smaller engines have smaller (faster) and different (quick heat) systems, compared to vehicles from the T3 era, which was engineered in the mid-2000s.

Don't compare warmup times between a 3.0L V6 TDI engineered 15 years ago to a 1.5L 4 cylinder Honda introduced in 2018.
 

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I'm looking into buying a low mileage 2016 TDI. Reading this forum it sounds like a pain in the butt. Some people report needing to add AdBlue every 3000 miles or so. (This sounds like an oputlier though.) More troubling, there seems to be an issue around cold start at temp even as warm as 20 degrees f? I mean that's cold, but certainly not frigid or unusual for the fairly moderate Mid Atlantic U.S. It seems to me that at a minimum we want our vehicles to start every time, Then there's the reports that the vehicle warms up more slowly than the gasser on cold mornings increasing the frigid factor. .Yet the TDI's are very popular. What gives?.
Owning ANY german car is a "pain in the butt", it has nothign to do with being a Volkswagen or Touareg

Every diesel on the planet warms up more slowly than gasser counterparts.. diesels are more efficient and produce less waste heat

With that said, my Touareg warms up faster than any diesel I've owned and I'd be willing to bet it warms up 30-40% faster than my 2.0 TSI

They're popular, what gives? I can load 2k lbs of bricks or landscaping bricks in the hatch, I can tow my 5200lb boat like its not back there, handles great, its faster than basically any other stock diesel (less the BMW and the Audi's) and I get 25-30mpg every tank. Show me what else compares?
 
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