Club Touareg Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well, it happened to us. We were driving down to Temecula yesterday and I thought I noticed a very slight hesitation in the engine while on the freeway. It was a barely noticeable pulsing and I wasn't sure what it could be - no lights or messages on the cluster. I thought maybe it could just be the uneven road or even the old steering wheel shake working its way back. I made a mental note to pay closer attention when I was on smoother pavement and kept going.


Maybe 10-15 minutes later I get a significant loss of power, and then an almost total loss of power a few seconds later. MIL is on and the glow plug pigtails are flashing, although I can't remember if the MIL came on before I lost power or right afterwards. Got over to the side of the freeway and shut her down. I let it sit for about 10 minutes while I consulted the manual, then decided to try and make it to the next offramp, which I did. Pulled into the nearest lot and shut it down again. I did not get any messages on the cluster - I cycled the ignition a couple of times to make sure I didn't have a workshop message, as I know that to mean something is seriously wrong.


I thought the hesitation might be a dirty or loose MAF sensor, so I popped the hood to check. Didn't have any tools at all on me, so I wasn't even able to pull the sensor out. Just made sure it was seated all right and that there wasn't anything wrong with the pipes / hoses that I could see. I'm no mechanic, but I didn't see anything.


VW Murrieta was less than 5 miles up the road and I decided to try and limp the car there. We made it about 300 yards before the car died in the street. Got it started again and limped into the closest parking lot to call a tow truck. Got towed to the dealer and took a 60 mile Uber ride home as they had just given out there last loaner (I literally watched the guy drive it away).


Got the call this afternoon - total fuel system replacement needed. I didn't press for details, so I am assuming I got some bad fuel. We had just filled the tank a day or two ago and we were maybe 100 miles into the tank. I almost always pump Shell, although this time we pumped at an unfamiliar station. I thought it'd be all right since they had quite a few diesel pumps (more than the typical 2 or 4 around here), plus I use power service additive when filling up (although my fiance does not...and it's her daily).



Thank goodness it's being covered under the powertrain warranty. VW Murietta has been absolutely fantastic thus far - our service advisor Jennifer has been great! Parts are on order and the ETA is ~1 week. They even offered to cover a loaner, but due to some accounting / systems issues we're having some trouble getting hooked up with a local Enterprise branch. Not their fault though.


I'm surprised this happened. CA is supposed to have some of the highest quality diesel in the country (I know that's not saying much). The only thing I can think of is we've been having some crazy (for us) weather here in SoCal with a ton of rain and temperatures way below normal. It only just heated up in the past 3-4 days, so maybe there was some condensation inside the station's tank? Or worse, maybe some rainwater somehow made it in? Really beats me...I try to make sure I put some power service in at least once a month.


3rd break down since December. I love this car, but of the 4 VW / Audi's I've owned, it's the only one that's ever had a mechanical issue...and it's had quite a few.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
What is a "complete fuel system failure?" I never heard this term. And before blaming "bad diesel," what does the mechanic say? Unnecessary "Diesel Kleen" is as likely as bad diesel. How can you trust anything named "Kleen?" haha. Good luck and report back please.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Back when I had first gotten my 2012 TDI in 10/2013, there were some HPFP's that were being destroyed. Back then there were many and some lengthy threads on the High Pressure Fuel Pumps and the people who were having them self destruct-there were not all that many and the problem was, and still not is, rampant with any 3.0L TDI.

VW was investigated by I think the NHTSA or whatever regulatory agency oversees all the mfgr's.

The conclusion to the entire mess of HPFP's failing?, people were putting gasoline into the diesel engines. The other positive for consumers?, that VW had to extend the warranty for the HPFP and related components.

There were two takeaways I got from the entire drama, from "Niner" -remember Niner?, he said 1. Avoid redline and stressing the HPFP and 2. Do not run the tank down into the red/orange of the fuel tank.

I'd be so happy that the fix is covered under warranty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,430 Posts
It's most likely a failure of the High Pressure Fuel Pump [hence HPFP failure] which grenades when it lets go and sends swarf fragments out through the entire fuel system including the fuel tank.

It's a well known issue to regulars on here but really only seems to occur in the US where reports of the cost of repairs have been up to $16,000.

It seems to be caused by three things:

1. Never run the fuel tank on a Tdi below 1/4 full.

The pump heats the fuel during pressurisation but the engine doesn't use all the pressurised hot fuel so it has a return to take unused fuel back to the tank.

There is a small cooler on the return but the system also relies on using the contents of the tank for cooling too.

2. Poor lubricity in the diesel being purchased which would include any water condensation of course.

3. Inadvertent mis-fuelling with gas / petrol.

So as above, follow Niner's advice [he's well and happy by the way and it's good someone else remembers him too, Ben!] and treat 1/4 full as EMPTY.

Buy the best quality diesel you can from high volume stations and use an additive.

Should it happen to you I wouldn't raise any of these points with any dealer asked to repair the car and especially anything about mis-fuelling or fuel quality.

Why would you give them a possible get out of jail card to your potentially grave $16,000 disadvantage?

Just keep schtum and get your car fixed under the VW warranty!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Niner was good. I had learned a lot from him, and from you(noobytoogy), over the years.

I have not seen one single post or thread over on the Cayenne Diesel forum on Rennlist in the two years I have been on it. There have also not been many on CT in the past few years now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
There needs to be a list started on exactly how many people have had this happen to them and model year they have. This is becoming ridiculous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Got the call this afternoon - total fuel system replacement needed. I didn't press for details, so I am assuming I got some bad fuel. We had just filled the tank a day or two ago and we were maybe 100 miles into the tank. I almost always pump Shell, although this time we pumped at an unfamiliar station. I thought it'd be all right since they had quite a few diesel pumps (more than the typical 2 or 4 around here), plus I use power service additive when filling up (although my fiance does not...and it's her daily).
As others have identified - this isn't a bad fuel issue. Your HPFP fragged and took out your fuel system. The only way to fix it is replace the entire fuel system - those little pieces of metal and plastic will destroy your injectors. There are lots of theories why (Nooby and Ben list them), but the exact cause is unknown. I subscribe to the "lack of lubricity in Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel" theory - the system was designed before the fuel spec changed.

So happy they are taking care of you - they are amazing machines for sure!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
I sure love my new warranty now that my Treg is conforming to emissions. Got it registered on vwgoa and all.

Glad to hear the dealership is taking care of you. Peace of mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Fuel Pump Failure

This is my first posting on the site. Just joined, happened to go to this thread. When my 13 TDI Lux had 30K on it, i was leaving Publix and it refused to start. Had it towed to dealer, was told fuel pump had “blown up”. A week later I got it back, all was great. A month later, car refused to start in my driveway. Had it towed to dealer. Lightning had struck twice. New pump, system cleaned. It has 80K on it now, and I have (knock on wood) not had another mechanical issue.
I absolutely love this car. Pretty sure I am going to refuse settlement because I am so scared it will become a shadow of its beautiful and beastly self.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Hi All,

I've been a little paranoid about this issue since I became aware of it a few years ago. I can deal with an expensive part failure, certainly when it's covered by warranty but I'm mostly just fearful of being stranded on the highway (or the backroads).

Currently I'm heeding all advice from forum members - fill up at 1/4 tank, use additive (stanadyne), fill up at busy stations, etc. and I'm even changing my fuel filter in between service intervals.

I'd like to know more about the part itself and have been wondering about a few things:

1. Does anyone know if a HPFP can fail due to longer-term stress (driving style, moisture or particle build-up over time) or is it an immediate result of of one of these things (or like bad diesel or misfuel)
2. Does it make any sense to replace it out of precaution as a form of preventative maintenance? If so, what would it cost?
3. Is there a more robust part available to replace the OEM version or is it replaced with exactly the same part that is still prone to this catastrophic failure?

Absolutely love this vehicle but this issue REALLY bugs me..

Cheers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
I must comment on the post on Power service additive. It is probably the highest volume diesel additive sold. I have had 3 diesels since new and 2 of them are Tregs. All the engines performed perfectly including my latest a 2016. Read threads about the HPFP issues and see what 1000s of owners are doing and a large majority use some quality lubricity product. Every fuel up gets a dose of PS,do what you want,but my experience is real.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
I must comment on the post on Power service additive. It is probably the highest volume diesel additive sold. I have had 3 diesels since new and 2 of them are Tregs. All the engines performed perfectly including my latest a 2016. Read threads about the HPFP issues and see what 1000s of owners are doing and a large majority use some quality lubricity product. Every fuel up gets a dose of PS,do what you want,but my experience is real.
Additives, oil, religion, and politics. It is all theory, speculation, and OPINION. Everyone has their own feeling on each one. Too many variables make it hard to call a fact. I also rely on my personal experience. That to me is proven... at least on that vehicle, at that frame of time, where I lived, etc, etc. ;)

I am currently using PS with no issues. I am changing to Stanadyne PF because of the research I have done. My grand father swore by STP and Marvel back in his day.

Sure wish there was a proven method to find out why these HPFP fail. So many variables.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
The issue was investigated and an order provided some years ago. Here is the warranty letter which is/was the outcome:


https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/SB-10058792-7541.pdf


Here is a summary from Edmonds:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/feds-close-probe-into-vw-audi-tdi-vehicles-for-high-pressure-fuel-pump-failure.html
That is for the 09-12 model years. I wonder if they extended that on newer models?

I know that the emissions warranty includes it, but for those who refuse to neuter the 3.0L it might be good to have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Will have to get back to all the replies later, but appreciate everyone's support and input.


I've always told my fiance not to run the tank lower than 1/4, but she still does it. Hopefully going forward she'll be a bit more vigilant about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
Where did you get the article or study of stanadyne additive compared to other additives.? I'm willing to look into a better product.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top