[Couchwagen]

Hello,

I have a 2012 TDI with ~75k miles still under Dieselgate warranty that i'm having a less than great time with at the moment.

In early April i noticed it felt down on power/laggy and the efficiency had dropped quite a bit. (Normally 26-27mpg combined with the driving i do, down to 18-19mpg.)
After three trips to the dealer they diagnosed that the turbo had failed and it was finally replaced in June. The turbo was an oily mess; they replaced the right side intercooler due to extreme oil contamination rather than attempting to clean it. I have to imagine i drove the thing for 2+ months shoving oil into the manifolds.

After i got it back from the turbo replacement, i noticed that it felt no different at all. Efficiency was still bad, power still bad, delivery still laggy. But now, it was also stuttering/shuddering at idle/stop. This was noticeable both in feel and by the tach dropping. Only stalled once, but still not a great experience.

I dropped it back off at the dealer on July 10th. Since then they've:
1) Replaced air filter, MAF, and cleaned pre-turbo intake pipe. I think the MAF was covered under warranty but i'm still trying to sort out the billing with the dealer. The air filter and pipe were very clearly contaminated with oil so i'm raising questions why this wasn't addressed with the turbo replacement.

2) Replaced injectors (covered under warranty)

Neither of these things have changed the symptoms, and so far they are only chasing the stutter/shudder/misfire.

I just received a call that they've been consulting with VW NA on how to proceed and they are suggesting:
1) Replace alternator pulley
2) Replace A/C compressor

They are not able to see misfires on the live data when logging the vehicle, and i guess the working theory is that either the compressor or the alternator pulley are failing and this is somehow dragging the vehicle down enough to make it appear to be misfiring. My cost (mine, not warranty) to test this theory is $2900.

I think this is insane. I'm not going to pretend that i have VW technical experience, but i have lots of high mile junkbox experience. I've had AC compressors seize completely. I've had pulleys seize completely. On tiny motors making 90hp. The motor didn't care, it just made a bunch of noise and shredded the belt. I find it completely asinine to be told that somehow a 3.0 liter diesel is being dragged down by a ribbed (not toothed) belt without any audible noise from the engine bay to signify a failing/seized bearing, let alone belt squeal.
NOTE: Charging system and AC both appear to work splendidly.

Am i off base? I'm not sure what else to do here. I love the Touareg but i'm not super interested in dropping $2900 "just to see." Anyone have ideas?

 

[gazaflash]

VCDS...?
Intakes are clean? (especially after the turbo was oily)
link broken which moves the intakes from shorter to longer tracts?
remove belt and turn alternator pulley. If its rough or partially seized... replace
Same goes with the AC compressor

 

[Couchwagen]

Hi there, i don't know what VCDS is, sorry.

Intakes have not been cleaned, having trouble getting the dealer to do that much as i'd have thought that would have been part of the turbo warranty work.

Would the variable intake stuff throw a code? Feels like it would (does on 20+ year old Miatas) but i don't have much VW experience.

Got clarification on what VW NA thinks the issue is: it's the alternator clutch, so i gave them the go-ahead to give that a shot. (Hideously expensive) I can generally diagnose bad pullies and compressors i just really don't want to. The pure amount of crap and garbage in this engine bay makes me want to vomit which is why it's at the dealer. I'd rather trade this in than work on it myself.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Alternator clutch should make the belt squeal.

 

[Couchwagen]

Alternator clutch should make the belt squeal.

I very much agree. None of this makes sense to me but there's not really a whole lot i can do.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

There's lots you could do... but you don't have any diagnostic tools, so you just open up your wallet blindly as a result.
Spend $200 so you can see something

Ross-Tech: Bentley CD Order Form

 

[Couchwagen]

There's lots you could do... but you don't have any diagnostic tools, so you just open up your wallet blindly as a result.
Spend $200 so you can see something

Ross-Tech: Bentley CD Order Form

Yeah because i'd love not to, though i am understanding your point. I spend a lootttttttt of time working on cars and am familiar with diagnostics and tuning standalone ecus and blah blah blah.

Was just hoping to not need to deal with that in the context of a vehicle that's still under warranty. Oh well. It's just money or whatever people say.

I can also use this to change settings and marry modules, right? (I'd like to add the oem tow module)

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Yeah because i'd love not to

And how is that working out for you? You can't really argue against whatever story a dealer or shop tells you if you have zero ability to look into anything yourself.
What if I was to argue with you regarding your TUNE you did for me, but I don't actually have the ability to look at your map values.... but I'm telling you, it's way too fat at X and Y parameters in this map. Would you go change your TUNE?

 

[Couchwagen]

And how is that working out for you? You can't really argue against whatever story a dealer or shop tells you if you have zero ability to look into anything yourself.
What if I was to argue with you regarding your TUNE you did for me, but I don't actually have the ability to look at your map values.... but I'm telling you, it's way too fat at X and Y parameters in this map. Would you go change your TUNE?

I did say i understood your point, right? Then i followed up with asking about the product you suggested, which normally indicates a willingness to buy.

What are you hoping to gain here?

To answer your question: As a customer telling me that the tune is way too fat in places in the map, i would very gladly jack into the ECU and show you what's there. I certainly wouldn't refuse to do so without giving any answers why.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

You're asking very complex questions... and very vague ones....
The manufacturer of the tool can answer those for you. There is a lot you can do with the diagnostic tool, but there's also a lot that you cannot. Some retrofits are possible, but you need to be very specific about what you're asking... there's lots of component protection and other similar things that VAG implements on some modules, and there are other things that are not documented, or "unlocked'.

As far as what I'm hoping to gain, you've lost me..... you're the one looking for some miracle solution.... I simply suggested that you get a tool that will allow you to see something.... otherwise, continue to rely on the warranty coverage and hope that it will be sorted out before expiration.... you have no visibility into anything right now, so there's nothing to look at.

A low power and low efficiency behavior should manifest some codes, or some pending codes, or you should be able to see some clues by looking at live data....
What are your DPF stats like? Your readiness? Your injector deviations? How's your EGR functioning? Etc.
I see a lot of parts have been thrown at this.... how do you know all those are working properly? Do you have any codes? Pending codes?

I can ask you things all day long, but you can't see any of the data, so I doubt that you can take a list and walk into your dealership and ask them to "show you" as you would if we were discussing your tune.

 

[WolverineFW]

1st.) Why would your air filter and pre-turbo air inlet pipe have excessive oil?

Last I checked, air flows through those towards the turbo and not the other way?

2nd.) None of us are standing in front of your vehicle. All you have given us is is a run down on what your possibly incompent dealer had done not to fix your vehicle.

Did they pull any diagnostic codes that they provided to you?

We have nothing to go on....we might as well as load the parts cannon for you.

Sent from my SM-S906W using Tapatalk

 

[TDIgolferoo]

That dealer is incompetent and it’s becoming the norm due to techs fleeing the industry due to their doubling down on paying them flat rate. Try a different dealer.

 

[Couchwagen]

VW NA appears to be incompetent too. Still at dealer. VW has sent engineers out multiple times at this point. Regarding codes: I'll reiterate that there are none.

At this point, it stays at the dealer in VW's hands until it's fixed. No rush on my part. The purpose of this thread was "anyone experience these symptoms and and have any anecdotes?" No need to read much farther into it. If i was working on it myself, i'd work on it myself. If i do so and get stumped, rest be assured i'll come back with data. Don't fret.

 

[volkswagens-for-life]

Not surprised at this, car being down for extended periods of time. I'd ask your dealer if there are any certified Touareg techs and also diesel techs working there. You'd be shocked at what you may hear.