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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks, I have a 2009 R50 and as with all V10's it has the two batteries. Pretty sure from a lot of reading and inputs by others (Drag et al) on this great forum, collective evidence indicates the Primary battery for starting the V10 is the one under the left front seat (front passenger seat in Aus) - with the Secondary battery (in the spare wheel well) called upon with an anti clockwise turn of the key. About 6 weeks ago I replaced that front (Primary) battery with a new AGM battery (~$470 I think). On the weekend I reversed the car out to wash it, I used the Start button and MFD says "Key not found" so no bother I put the key in the slot and as a test - I turned it ANTICLOCKWISE - as this is the documented process to use the 'other' battery for starting. Nothing happens at all. So I turned the key Clockwise and then it started normally - as it always has. Once reversed out for the wash I then left it and as I tried to lock it with the black button on the drivers door handle - no lock noise. I pressed the lock button on the fob, nothing - the little green light wouldn't illuminate on the fob either. Battery in the fob <4 weeks old. I popped the cover flap off the fob, held the cell down firmly to the PCB, bingo it worked. So battery in the fob was good but not contacting the PCB. I put a little tissue packer behind the cell cover to ensure the flat cell is pressed firmly to the PCB and from then it has yet to fail me - but I've only started it twice since. Will track that one.

But, my main query relates to the starting process. Why did nothing happen when I turned the key ANTICOCKWISE? I had previously tried this anticlockwise turn (prior to replacing the Primary battery) I had instances of low crank speed when car fully warmed (though not from stone cold) and once, no crank at all. That was after a 200km drive as well. Voltmeter is rock steady on 14V.

My fellow R50 colleague on the east coast (Dan) tried his R50 with an anticlockwise turn - and also no response form the car. Completely dead. But CLOCKWISE turn, car starts as normal.

Something going on electrically - I will have a re-read of the SSP document which shows the SLD and description of relays operation etc but I am keen to understand why not just my R50 but two R50's both have this same issue. Is it unique to the R50 (of the V10's) or is this issue common with other non-R50 V10's?

As documented elsewhere by Dan, the positive jump terminal under the bonnet and the multiple Heavy gauge connections to that post can have poor conductivity (as Dan's auto electrician indicated following cleaning his connections) so I intend to do that terminal cleanup soon when I have time.

Anyone have any wisdom on this Anticlockwise inactivity? Sorry about it being a bit of a lengthy read.

Regards

Pete.
 

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@JET13
Any experience with this?
 

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How likely is it that the the technical writers at VW, who will have had to get engineering sign-off, have written up an SSP that has the purpose of the two batteries completely arse about face and if they had done do, that the SSP would not have been corrected and reissued?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes, you're right, it is hard to be categoric about refuting this VW SSP - it is from the experience of some learned folks on here largely that this advice (regarding which is the Starter battery) comes from. On the one hand - we should believe the VW SSP without question, but it is not without some number of people challenging this.

With regards to my specific issue here - it doesn't matter which battery is which. The result is still the same, an anticlockwise key turn results in nothing. My suspicion is the switching relay may be at fault. I am still reviewing further and albeit slow progress, one day determined to get to the bottom of it.

Regards

Pete.

Automotive parking light Tire Wheel Car Land vehicle
 
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I'm aware that one or two folk we regard as the most knowledgeable Touareg owners are contrarians with regard to the SSP which is fine - I still think the earth is flat!

I wonder If the car makes the decision on whether or not to allow you to use the turn key left start function only if voltage in the starter battery is low.
 

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Hi folks, I have a 2009 R50 and as with all V10's it has the two batteries. Pretty sure from a lot of reading and inputs by others (Drag et al) on this great forum, collective evidence indicates the Primary battery for starting the V10 is the one under the left front seat (front passenger seat in Aus) - with the Secondary battery (in the spare wheel well) The SSP says the rear battery is the starter battery but i call this a bullshit misprint as no electrical engineer worth his salt would change from the front battery being the start battery as in all the other Touaregs to run cable all the way from the back of the car with the associated voltage drop. Sure the system is smart enough to even combine the current from both batteries to start the car if needed or a few other combinations as it checks both batteries in a split second when you request a start of the engine but i believe if the front battery is dead flat the anticlockwise key turn is required. called upon with an anti clockwise turn of the key. About 6 weeks ago I replaced that front (Primary) battery with a new AGM battery (~$470 I think). On the weekend I reversed the car out to wash it, I used the Start button and MFD says "Key not found" so no bother I put the key in the slot and as a test - I turned it ANTICLOCKWISE - Why did you try the anti clockwise turn method first before the normal clockwise turn ? My guess is that with this system being smart as documented in the SSP that the ECU realized that there was no need to try the emergency start process as the main start battery was OK so with you then trying the normal clockwise turn all was good so it started. I once removed the front battery completely from a V10 and was able to start on the rear battery only by the anti clockwise turn method. as this is the documented process to use the 'other' battery for starting. Nothing happens at all. So I turned the key Clockwise and then it started normally - as it always has. Once reversed out for the wash I then left it and as I tried to lock it with the black button on the drivers door handle - no lock noise. I pressed the lock button on the fob, nothing - the little green light wouldn't illuminate on the fob either. Battery in the fob <4 weeks old. I popped the cover flap off the fob, held the cell down firmly to the PCB, bingo it worked. So battery in the fob was good but not contacting the PCB. I put a little tissue packer behind the cell cover to ensure the flat cell is pressed firmly to the PCB and from then it has yet to fail me - but I've only started it twice since. Will track that one.

But, my main query relates to the starting process. Why did nothing happen when I turned the key ANTICOCKWISE? I had previously tried this anticlockwise turn (prior to replacing the Primary battery) I had instances of low crank speed when car fully warmed (though not from stone cold) and once, no crank at all. That was after a 200km drive as well. Voltmeter is rock steady on 14V.

My fellow R50 colleague on the east coast (Dan) tried his R50 with an anticlockwise turn - and also no response form the car. Completely dead. But CLOCKWISE turn, car starts as normal.

Something going on electrically - I will have a re-read of the SSP document which shows the SLD and description of relays operation etc but I am keen to understand why not just my R50 but two R50's both have this same issue. Is it unique to the R50 (of the V10's) or is this issue common with other non-R50 V10's?

As documented elsewhere by Dan, the positive jump terminal under the bonnet and the multiple Heavy gauge connections to that post can have poor conductivity (as Dan's auto electrician indicated following cleaning his connections) so I intend to do that terminal cleanup soon when I have time.

Anyone have any wisdom on this Anticlockwise inactivity? Sorry about it being a bit of a lengthy read.

Regards

Pete.

For what is is worth comments above

Regards
Drag
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Drag, yes, what you say makes perfect sense with all other single battery Touaregs having the front battery as the starter, why would it make sense to shift that to the rear.

I think also in reading yours and TommiT response, it is probably the case that even though I tried an anti clockwise turn for no specific reason, that nothing happened because the starter battery voltage (whichever one it is) was above the low limit threshold that would have engaged the dual battery start process. BUT, if that were the case, I still can't explain why before I replaced the front battery where I was unable to start the car with a clockwise turn and at the same time following that fail, also an anti clockwise turn as well lead to nothing, complete silence. How can this be? I have tested both batteries, directly on their terminals and with 12.7+V and battery shop says they're both good.

Pete.
 

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Every time I start my car I hear the rear solenoid close and join both batteries for starting.

The anti-clockwise flick forces the car to use the rear battery for all systems for a brief period of time.
In case your front battery has been drained by a faulty module or something.
The car doesn't crank at the anti-clockwise position, you only flick to the left, then start clockwise as normal.
 

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The anticlockwise turn brings the front under seat consumer battery into play if the rear starter battery is down on volts.

Some of the functions the front consumer battery would normally support are disabled for the starting process to give it enough oomph to get the V10 fired up.

Or VW didn't know a damned thing when they wrote and published their SSP!
 

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The anticlockwise turn brings the front under seat consumer battery into play if the rear starter battery is down on volts.

Some of the functions the front consumer battery would normally support are disabled for the starting process to give it enough oomph to get the V10 fired up.

Or VW didn't know a damned thing when they wrote and published their SSP!
Really? Sounds like you have a long ownership experience. Please detail how long and how many V10tdi’s you have owned. Have you taken out an entire wiring harness and made a v10 run stand alone? Just wondering as what you are saying is different from my hands on experience.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Every time I start my car I hear the rear solenoid close and join both batteries for starting.

The anti-clockwise flick forces the car to use the rear battery for all systems for a brief period of time.
In case your front battery has been drained by a faulty module or something.
The car doesn't crank at the anti-clockwise position, you only flick to the left, then start clockwise as normal.
Hi PJMax - thanks for your post. That is important to understand (the bold sentence above) - as when I turned anticlockwise and nothing happened, from your explanation, nothing should have happened until such time as I then turn the key clockwise.

I will try again some time and listen more attentively for relay/solenoid activity.

Regards

Pete.
 

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Hi PJMax - thanks for your post. That is important to understand (the bold sentence above) - as when I turned anticlockwise and nothing happened, from your explanation, nothing should have happened until such time as I then turn the key clockwise.

I will try again some time and listen more attentively for relay/solenoid activity.

Regards

Pete.
No problem.

If you lift the boot floor lid you'll hear it easier.
 
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