Any news regarding this? My 2016 VR6 had this issue when I first bought it as a CPO, and then it miraculously went away. At my last service they recommended 90k service(plugs and filters) and the issue came back! lol, what a nightmare.
1-3-5 Misfire on cold start
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I reached a deal with VW Canada to live with the problem. We were very close to a forced buyback. However, I like the car and didn’t really want to see it go, so I pushed for the settlement and they were happy to work with me - one less troublesome TSI to deal with! Good news is that the problem has subsided significantly - now just the rather rough idle on startup that all 2016 and 2017 gasoline Touaregs seem to experience. Hopefully it does not reappear as in your experience!
Obviously Canada represents a rather insignificant portion of VW AG marketplace so VW Canada is not supported very well by the factory. This is an ongoing common problem that they have freely admitted to for the past three years at least. I suspect a corporate decision has been made to ‘ride it out’ and hope that they can escape a class action lawsuit. After all the problem only affected 2016 and 2017 models when they adjusted the programming to accommodate regular gasoline. I cannot believe that VW could not correct the problem if they really decided to invest the effort.
All I can offer is the same as VW Canada and your dealer ‘Good Luck’!,
Obviously Canada represents a rather insignificant portion of VW AG marketplace so VW Canada is not supported very well by the factory. This is an ongoing common problem that they have freely admitted to for the past three years at least. I suspect a corporate decision has been made to ‘ride it out’ and hope that they can escape a class action lawsuit. After all the problem only affected 2016 and 2017 models when they adjusted the programming to accommodate regular gasoline. I cannot believe that VW could not correct the problem if they really decided to invest the effort.
All I can offer is the same as VW Canada and your dealer ‘Good Luck’!,
So I have received the software fix from VW Canada and it seems to be working.
VTA code from VW Canada. Code is SVM 377B Code 2470.
Ask your dealership to run this and you should see a decrease in the issue.
Essentially I think it automates the trick of giving the engine a bit more gas to increase revs to 1250- 1500 rpm for first 30 seconds or so of start up which gets all the engine fluids flowing and air moving smoothly. Engine then settles into a nice idle at 700rpm and runs smooth after that.
Dealership will need vehicle for a couple hours or more, for my T-reg most of the time it was in shop they were waiting for VW Canada to send them the codes to start the Engine flash.
Hope this helps whoever decides to give it a try.
VTA code from VW Canada. Code is SVM 377B Code 2470.
Ask your dealership to run this and you should see a decrease in the issue.
Essentially I think it automates the trick of giving the engine a bit more gas to increase revs to 1250- 1500 rpm for first 30 seconds or so of start up which gets all the engine fluids flowing and air moving smoothly. Engine then settles into a nice idle at 700rpm and runs smooth after that.
Dealership will need vehicle for a couple hours or more, for my T-reg most of the time it was in shop they were waiting for VW Canada to send them the codes to start the Engine flash.
Hope this helps whoever decides to give it a try.
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Thanks Cad_Man. Will show your info to the dealer. However, I need to be careful because my car is bearable right now and I’m not sure I want to tempt fate by having anything done at this point. My car was in the dealer 8 times for a total of 100 days for this issue so I don’t want to risk any repeat. However, if the issue resurfaces I will have the update ASAP! Thanks again for the suggestion.
I agree 100%, The old adage "If it ain't broke a the moment don't fix it" is so true. Just keep a copy of the code for future reference. This was my intent with my posting.
I really wish I didn't take their advice on getting new plugs... I do believe the issue subsides with time as when I purchased the car it eventually did go away and then as mentioned resurfaced when they did plugs and filters lol.
Thanks for the infographic Cad Man! I wonder if they will issue a TSB for this problem, as you are the only person on the net i've seen mention a fix for this!
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Had the update installed on my car Nov 2. Feel it has improved definitely. Certainly now it is way way better than when I first posted on this forum. I never would have complained had it been this good originally. Thanks for the help Cad Man. Interestingly, when the dealer first contacted VW Canada about the update you mentioned, at first they claimed my car already had it done! When they discovered their mistake they immediately agreed to do it. They had been promising for two years to do a recall when the update was ready!!
Just an update on my end - my car eventually fired a few codes off for several misfires... I cleared them and then the cold start rough idle eventually dissipated and is now non existent. Very weird to have resurfaced after new plugs/filters.
After the upgrade I notice it still runs rough at the higher idle but my Mechanic says this is normal for a 3.6 to do this until upper manifold is warmed up. after 20 seconds it settles down and runs fine. Have noticed if I try and help it by revving the engine you will get a check engine light that goes away after two or three days. Best suggestion I can give is if needed get the VTA flash from VW and when you start your engine give it 30 seconds to warm up every time you start your vehicle. It is the best thing to do for any vehicle you drive under any circumstances.
I just brought my 2017 Touareg in for the software update in Winnipeg and noticed the same thing Cad_Man mentioned; higher rpms for first 30 or so seconds. I was experiencing misfire on cold start for cylinders 2,4,6. I also checked the air filter earlier in the process and there was sign of water damage at the bottom, but they told me that was from it not be properly sealed. They replaced it, so I'll keep an eye on that. I haven't had the chance to test the cold weather start yet, once it cools down a bit I'll be able to see if it was successful.
I call Bullshit on the air filter not being properly sealed... It is so easy to get water in the Intake pipe, especially if you use touchless car wash or high pressure hose at hand car wash DIY bays. They don't want to admit to the design flaw on the facelift versions of the Touareg. Take your front grill off pour a cup of water down the hood when it gets to the headlight assembly water is directed straight into the Intake pipe! With grill off you can see how there is nothing to stop this from happening. You think they would come up with a deflector plate of some kind to block this from happening.
I bought some of this weather strip to put on top of Headlight under hood to redirect water away from grill.
It should do the trick, I am waiting for a warmer day to stick it on as temps have been a bit cold lately.
Thanks for that tip, I'll give it a go. I use the wand wash every other week so that could be it
Saw the OP and this thread, so I thought I would contribute my experience with this selfsame issue. I bought a used 3.6L Touareg Wolfsburg gas with 76000 kms on the clock. Currently at 108,000km. Car runs beautifully, save this for this irritating misfire issue that throws a CEL every oil change.
That said the 3.6l is a lovely v6 engine... just needs a LOT of TLC. Like a high maintenance spouse.
I have had about 5 or 6 CELs / MILs in the last year since purchase, mostly due to shaky rough start up in cold weather (as the OP and other posters have mentioned). I didn't buy my Touareg from VW, and i dont get it serviced at VW delaerships (i learnt the hard way with servicing prior Audis in Europe that the available technician expertise is overall low - most are apprentices or junior. Invariably there is only one or two Master Technicians per dealer service shop so odds are the Master Tech wont work on your car). Ill try the software fix route but thought id venture some tips ive used to help with this misfire issue. First disclaimer these go beyond the typical layman owners interest / preparedness to diagnose issue!!
1. VW issued a TSB for this engine specifying owners use a specific VW fuel additives in the fuel (one can per half a tank so approx one car / 50litres). Ill dig out the TSB and reshare the specific bulletin. Ill scan it and upload to this forum this week. I did this religously for 40km every 2500 / 3000km but I still get the same msifire codes (as of October 2020). The VW additive is noticeably thicker than Canadian Tire / Liqui Moly Jectron etc. Likely coats better.
2. I've taken my Touareg into various garages in the last year (Speedy Auto - they installed two rounds of 6 coils and 6 plugs - to no avail. I am still experiencing misfires; Also took it in in Oct 2020 to Petes VW who also appears stumped with this cylinder misfire issue and suggested a carbon clean of the valves).
3. I used some top engine valve intake cleaner to clean the valves. Fuel additives on GDI or direct injection engines dont coat the valves like Port engines. So the VW additive or STP/ Sea Foam; name your snake oil) does nothing from a valve cleaning pov. The fuel injector cleaners do seem clean the spark plugs / bottom of engine.
4. If you are plannign to keep your Touareg for a while / know you are invested in the VW brand I'd recommend you get your own cheap OBD2 reader to read codes that come up to avoid the VW $120+HST diagnostic fee (I got one from Ancel this week specifically to read my CEL codes ((VD-500 about $60) and decide if the car needs urgent repair. This assumes some knowledge of car maintenance). For example, the most recent codes i keep getting are for 1-3-5 misfire, 2-4-6 misfire and fuel trim for Banks 1 and Bank 2; fuel system running too rich. The Ancel scanner lets you clear your CEL code. I hate that yellow engine light LOL.
4. Based on (3) i read up on how a bad Mass Air Flow sensor can throw misfire and/or fuel trim codes. Also have noticed increasingly sluggish acceleration even with OEM coils and plugs fitted in the last 5000km; also poor MPG. Napa Auto sites and others suggested cleaning the MAF which I did today (12.05.2020). Took it for 10 minutes and the engine upshifted more smoothly; no misfire at start - today was -4 here at Richmond hill. Engine left cold for about 6 hours. Will report back once i ve driven it for longer / for a few days (i do 10 - 50km commutes daily). Go here for one guide to cleaning MAF:
How to Clean Your MAF Sensor For Better Performance.
I took my Touareg for a 10 minute spin and the throttle seemed instantly more responsive. So far so good (the car started after taking the MAF out and disassembling the air filter intake duct - win!).
Disclaimer: Ive never worked on my VWs / Audis beyond battery changes; coolant top ups, a rear wiper motor replacement was my most complex job. that and a broken ratchet for an Audi A3 8L arm rest fix). So this maintenance saga is defo out of my comfort zone
Obviously, for the typical owner, these steps go WAY beyond the typical passive owner from a maintenance perspective. For reference the codes im getting are:
P0-175 / P0-172 Fuel system too rich Bank 2, Bank 1 respectively.
P0-300 - Random misfires
P0-301/ P0-303 / P0-305 - 13-5 cylinder misfires.
Hoping the software fix by a previous poster addresses this somewhat. I bought my car cash so keen to keep it running for a long time! I will come back with a new post on the Touareg rough idel TSB.
Cheers!
That said the 3.6l is a lovely v6 engine... just needs a LOT of TLC. Like a high maintenance spouse.
I have had about 5 or 6 CELs / MILs in the last year since purchase, mostly due to shaky rough start up in cold weather (as the OP and other posters have mentioned). I didn't buy my Touareg from VW, and i dont get it serviced at VW delaerships (i learnt the hard way with servicing prior Audis in Europe that the available technician expertise is overall low - most are apprentices or junior. Invariably there is only one or two Master Technicians per dealer service shop so odds are the Master Tech wont work on your car). Ill try the software fix route but thought id venture some tips ive used to help with this misfire issue. First disclaimer these go beyond the typical layman owners interest / preparedness to diagnose issue!!
1. VW issued a TSB for this engine specifying owners use a specific VW fuel additives in the fuel (one can per half a tank so approx one car / 50litres). Ill dig out the TSB and reshare the specific bulletin. Ill scan it and upload to this forum this week. I did this religously for 40km every 2500 / 3000km but I still get the same msifire codes (as of October 2020). The VW additive is noticeably thicker than Canadian Tire / Liqui Moly Jectron etc. Likely coats better.
2. I've taken my Touareg into various garages in the last year (Speedy Auto - they installed two rounds of 6 coils and 6 plugs - to no avail. I am still experiencing misfires; Also took it in in Oct 2020 to Petes VW who also appears stumped with this cylinder misfire issue and suggested a carbon clean of the valves).
3. I used some top engine valve intake cleaner to clean the valves. Fuel additives on GDI or direct injection engines dont coat the valves like Port engines. So the VW additive or STP/ Sea Foam; name your snake oil) does nothing from a valve cleaning pov. The fuel injector cleaners do seem clean the spark plugs / bottom of engine.
4. If you are plannign to keep your Touareg for a while / know you are invested in the VW brand I'd recommend you get your own cheap OBD2 reader to read codes that come up to avoid the VW $120+HST diagnostic fee (I got one from Ancel this week specifically to read my CEL codes ((VD-500 about $60) and decide if the car needs urgent repair. This assumes some knowledge of car maintenance). For example, the most recent codes i keep getting are for 1-3-5 misfire, 2-4-6 misfire and fuel trim for Banks 1 and Bank 2; fuel system running too rich. The Ancel scanner lets you clear your CEL code. I hate that yellow engine light LOL.
4. Based on (3) i read up on how a bad Mass Air Flow sensor can throw misfire and/or fuel trim codes. Also have noticed increasingly sluggish acceleration even with OEM coils and plugs fitted in the last 5000km; also poor MPG. Napa Auto sites and others suggested cleaning the MAF which I did today (12.05.2020). Took it for 10 minutes and the engine upshifted more smoothly; no misfire at start - today was -4 here at Richmond hill. Engine left cold for about 6 hours. Will report back once i ve driven it for longer / for a few days (i do 10 - 50km commutes daily). Go here for one guide to cleaning MAF:
How to Clean Your MAF Sensor For Better Performance.
I took my Touareg for a 10 minute spin and the throttle seemed instantly more responsive. So far so good (the car started after taking the MAF out and disassembling the air filter intake duct - win!).
Disclaimer: Ive never worked on my VWs / Audis beyond battery changes; coolant top ups, a rear wiper motor replacement was my most complex job. that and a broken ratchet for an Audi A3 8L arm rest fix). So this maintenance saga is defo out of my comfort zone
Obviously, for the typical owner, these steps go WAY beyond the typical passive owner from a maintenance perspective. For reference the codes im getting are:
P0-175 / P0-172 Fuel system too rich Bank 2, Bank 1 respectively.
P0-300 - Random misfires
P0-301/ P0-303 / P0-305 - 13-5 cylinder misfires.
Hoping the software fix by a previous poster addresses this somewhat. I bought my car cash so keen to keep it running for a long time! I will come back with a new post on the Touareg rough idel TSB.
Cheers!
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18 Posts
Just received some very interesting information, that I am certain reliable, from an inside source with intimate knowledge of the problem discussed in the thread.
VW Canada and VW in Germany were very aware all along of the problem that I was experiencing (misfiring, engine stumble and throwing numerous codes etc ) for two years. However the factory decided to force VW Canada and their dealers to stonewall customers and keep promising a fix since they figured it was not worth their while to correct a problem that existed only in 2016 and 2017 Touaregs in North America. Virtually all Touaregs in Europe are diesel. I suppose it is no surprise that they would be this corrupt given the disclosures around ‘dieselgate’! I am surprised that a class action lawsuit was not launched in the US.
My case at CAMVAP was going well and it was very clear that they would be forced to buy back my vehicle. I offered to accept a 10 year/160,000km. 5 star (bumper to bumper) extended warranty and drop the CAMVAP claim. They agreed to this rather than buy it back. My car right now is good but certainly not perfect but I can live with knowing I have the extended warranty.
Another gentleman I know - may be on this forum! - recently had his 2017 bought back for a very healthy sum - way more than market!!
I encourage everyone with issues to not give up - you have 5 years warrant!
VW Canada and VW in Germany were very aware all along of the problem that I was experiencing (misfiring, engine stumble and throwing numerous codes etc ) for two years. However the factory decided to force VW Canada and their dealers to stonewall customers and keep promising a fix since they figured it was not worth their while to correct a problem that existed only in 2016 and 2017 Touaregs in North America. Virtually all Touaregs in Europe are diesel. I suppose it is no surprise that they would be this corrupt given the disclosures around ‘dieselgate’! I am surprised that a class action lawsuit was not launched in the US.
My case at CAMVAP was going well and it was very clear that they would be forced to buy back my vehicle. I offered to accept a 10 year/160,000km. 5 star (bumper to bumper) extended warranty and drop the CAMVAP claim. They agreed to this rather than buy it back. My car right now is good but certainly not perfect but I can live with knowing I have the extended warranty.
Another gentleman I know - may be on this forum! - recently had his 2017 bought back for a very healthy sum - way more than market!!
I encourage everyone with issues to not give up - you have 5 years warrant!
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