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Hello all,

I'm preforming a timing belt service on my touareg and I am unsure on the cam shaft positioning. According to ElsaWin there are 16 chain rollers between the alignment marks on the cam shafts with bank 1 both being offset a 1/2 tooth offset to left. Positioning the cam and chains in this manner, the intake cam in bank 1 is ~1/2 a tooth off from the alignment mark on the bearing cap (bearing cap mark is 15.5 teeth from the exhaust cam) and on bank 2 the intake cam is 1 tooth off from the alignment mark on the bearing cap (bearing cap mark is 15 teeth from the exhaust cam). What should I do? Should I keep the 16 teeth or adjust the chains 1 tooth to get the cam shafts to align with the bearing caps? Could the chain have stretched that much?

I will work on uploading pictures for a visual. I've done multiple timing services on Audi v6's and have never had an issue with the 16 teeth and the alignment marks aligning according to ElsaWin.
 

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Below are the pictures, the counting looks slightly off in the pictures because of the angles but the counting and marks are accurate. I also forgot to mention I have the crankshaft pin in and the cam locking bar on.
Bank 1:


Bank 2:
 

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Just to update encase other people have this issue. I tried it as is (16 rollers) and got a rough idle and 2 codes:
16730/P0346 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G163): Implausible Signal
17748/P1340 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation

So I adjusted both sides to 15 rollers and it works perfectly. On bank 1 the intake cam is a ~1/3 tooth from the alignment mark on the bearing cap to the exhaust cam side. Bank 2 lines up perfectly with the marks on the bearing cap with 15 rollers. Block 93 was -3.0kw and -2.0kw and no error codes.
 

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Very helpful!

Thanks you, very helpful! I am currently battling the 16 vs. 15 roller dilemma and this was just what i needed. 15 rollers it is!
 

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Thanks you, very helpful! I am currently battling the 16 vs. 15 roller dilemma and this was just what i needed. 15 rollers it is!
Please DO NOT listen to the above posts, he has set his timing incorrectly. The 16 chain rollers is ONLY for setting the intake to exhaust cam timing, NOT exhaust to crank timing!!!

The camshaft sprockets are free-wheeling, they are not keyed to the camshaft. During timing belt service, you are supposed to lock the crankshaft in position using a special tool, loosen the camshaft sprocket bolts, secure the camshafts with a special tool, then install and tension the belt. The camshafts will remain set at TDC while the sprockets will rotate slightly as they are tensioned.

During a normal timing belt replacement, you should not need to worry about the camshaft chain at all.
 

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IMG_0682.jpg

I had the cams out to change the valve cover gasket and related seals. I do have the crank locked and the bar that keeps the cylinder heads at TDC. I did neglect to mark where the sprockets has been on the chain, and when I tried to re-time them using the 16-roller guidance, the intake cam would consistently be a full tooth retarded when the exhaust cam was at TDC. With 15 rollers the timing marks on the cams line up perfectly with the timing marks on the cam bearings (looks skewed in picture due to parallax, they line up perfectly when looking at each straight on). What I’m seeing seems to match up perfectly with the above write-up.

I’ll certainly update if I have any trouble when I fire her up in a few days. Thank you for the warning, but I’m feeling confident that OP was right in the end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I can lend some clarity to this and hopefully save some of you from the aggrevation of repeatedly re-timing that i went thru with this job


Let me begin with some clarification on the cylinder numbers and bank 1 and bank 2...

Bank 1 (cylinders 1-4) is the Passenger side and cylinder 1 is closest to the radiator

Bank 2 (cylinders 5-8) is the Driver's side and cylinder 5 is closest to the radiator


When you lock your crank with the balancer timing marks aligned to the timing belt cover cylinder 5 is at TDC, Not cylinder 1, this is important because the hydraulic cam tensioners are different part numbers for the different banks they function differently and it's very common for techs, not to mention shade tree guys like us, to put them on the wrong sides which will cause you to throw the 17748 and 17755 vag code for incorrect cam/crank correlation.

When counting rollers between the timing marks the number is 16 rollers for both sides, the confusion comes from where to start and stop counting because the rollers and the marks don't line up perfectly...


The cam locking bar will always force your exhaust cam timing marks to be perfectly aligned with their cam caps so always start your roller count with your exhaust cams on the bench from the 1st roller to the Left of the exhaust cam for both banks.


For bank 1 (passenger side) starting 1st roller to the left of the exhaust timing mark count your 16th roller should also be just to the left once you re-install this side i have always found the timing marks to line up perfectly with the cam caps after the tensioner is released.

For bank 2 (passenger side) starting 1st roller to the left of the exhaust timing mark count your 16th roller which will land almost perfectly with the timing mark on the intake cam...if you count the rollers inside the marks instead you will come up with 15 between the marks which is where the confusion comes from. Once you re-install this side the intake timing mark on the cam will be a little advanced(closer)to the exhaust cam, the pic in the previous post shows this pretty well.


After you've re-installed i'd recommend leaving cam caps tight but don't torque and stretch the bolts until you've run the motor, also let the motor sit for 30 minutes or more before turning over one or more crank revolutions by hand clockwise, after you line up the balancer marks with the cover and re-locked with the cam bar both intake cam marks should line up, passenger side always looks perfect to me driver's always seems a little past the cam cap mark if either intake cam mark isn't real close chances are the chain timing is wrong.


After you run the motor and it doesn't throw any correlation or cam codes take the valve covers back off and torque and stretch the cam cap bolts, also don't re-use cam bolts they are stretch bolts there are 26 per side 52 total the VW p/n is 077 103 460 they're about a $1.40 each
 

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Just to be pedantic and to remove any possibilty of confusion for others doing this job later, when you mention driver and passenger sides you are talking about these on a left hand drive car?
 

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Just to be pedantic and to remove any possibilty of confusion for others doing this job later, when you mention driver and passenger sides you are talking about these on a left hand drive car?

Yes LHD is my frame of reference...but to remove all doubt with the engine running I recommend you pull electrical connector on injector one and you get an open to ground fault code for that injector which is N80
 
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