[Cjensan]

Hello All,

I have searched high and low for trying to find if one can replace the camshafts on the V10 Touareg without pulling the engine.

The answer is yes you can!
You do have to pull the tandem pump fully out (easier to undo the fuel lines off the common rail than the pump). And then undo the oil supply lines which feed the turbochargers. Once this is done you can remove the 36mm nut which holds the gear that drives the camshafts. You then need to pull the pin out of that gear. The pin has a threaded hole (M8x1.25) in the end. Thread in a bolt and wiggle in and out and the pin pulls out. Once out the support arm can come off the bronze bushing that prevents the camshaft from coming out.

These cams were replaced with new and have less than 20k miles on them. The lifters were also replaced. All the lifters already show signs of damage, and every exhaust lobe has wear on the nose and ramp.
Since replacement of these parts, the vehicle has only run LiquiMoly.
I will be taking these to Colt Cams and having a stage 2 grind put on them. I will also be running an additive with every oil change. The additive is PowerUp EngineMaxx PDS.

While I am doing these mods I am doing to eliminate the EGR system and do a different crankcase breather system to help keep things a little cleaner under the hood.

 

[Cjensan]

To hold the camshafts for undoing their bolt through the gear I gabbed up this plate. It holds the cams perfectly level with the head surface for alignment while being strong enough to prevent any movement for torquing those bolts. Worked like a charm.

 

[Cjensan]

The attachments show the empty head, the gear support arm which prevents removal of the camshaft, the threaded hole for removal of the pin, and the pin itself.

 

[Cjensan]

This shows the wear on the lobes and the lifters. Again less than 20k miles.

 

[noobytoogy]

Interesting thread. Always better with pictures too.

One of the reasons for the camshaft lobe wear is the acute angle and this is why it is essential to use VW505.01 or VW506.01 oils in the early engines as these have additives to prevent the oil molecules from shearing due to the extreme pressure caused by the lobe angle.

Will the reprofiling increase these angles and, in doing so, mean that the oil molecules will shear thereby leading to premature wear on the lobes?

 

[Cjensan]

Interesting thread. Always better with pictures too.

One of the reasons for the camshaft lobe wear is the acute angle and this is why it is essential to use VW505.01 or VW506.01 oils in the early engines as these have additives to prevent the oil molecules from shearing due to the extreme pressure caused by the lobe angle.

Will the reprofiling increase these angles and, in doing so, mean that the oil molecules will shear thereby leading to premature wear on the lobes?

The LiquiMoly oil used through the entire life of these camshafts is a VW approved oil.
The profile of the cams is as stated for a solid lifter, not a hydraulic lifter. I've known the owner of Colt Cams for years and he is the guy to go to for these cams. He is the one that found the profile problem, as well as that at around 30 deg there is a bump in the lobe (factory grind) that slaps the surface of the lifter and breaks it down. Once the surface on the lifter fails, the cam wears really rapidly as well. If it wears too much then the lifter actually eats into the lobe that drives the injectors.
Upon getting the cams to Colt it was decided that if the had gotten another 3k miles or so they would have been too far gone and I would have had to replace them.

I believe that part of the reason that these cams failed so fast is when the last shop replaced them they did not properly lube them or do the proper 20 min of running at 2k RPM to ensure proper break-in.

 

[Blownvette]

.

 

[dragline1570]

Not for me but wow I applaud you for the effort as removal in chassis would be very tight and visibility of some items would be zero but well done.
I would have said not worth the effort over removing the engine but hey again well done.


As for the cams
- Yes oil is very important this is what I use the VW spec oil is wrong for a flat tappet engine nowhere near enough ZZDP.
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/applications/car-4wd/engine-oils/10-tenths-racing-10w-40-pao-ester.
- Use of assembly lube fortified with ZZDP is essential to be used during assembly.
- Initial bedding in of the cams at initial start up is also recommended.
- You are correct for some reason VW decided to use a solid lobe profile on a hydraulic tappet


- If you have any issues with getting a your local colt cams I also have made my Aussie TDI cams for the V10 which are steel billet cams, induction hardened and have a slightly higher lift and duration and of course are a hydraulic profile.
These are superior to the VW cams in every way.


regards
Drag

 

[Dpkhym]

Would you mind doing a video recap of removal? Also a video of reinstalling?

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[Cjensan]

I may be able to do some assembly pictures but I’m the type that normally gets in there and just gets going and forgets to take pictures. ???
Drag, I love the idea of your cams but I will be sticking with a regrind for the moment. Stage 2 right now.
Now that I know where all the bolts etc are I think I could probably replace the camshafts in the TDI in 10-12 hours which is a great deal faster and easier than dropping the engine.

Again I will try to remember the pictures so I can write up a DIY for those that wish to follow suit.
And as far as room yes it’s very tight but the bolts have all been fairly easy compared to some vehicles that I’ve worked on......

 

[Cjensan]

Drag, I will be doing a mix of assembly lube and ZDDP additive. I will state that there was a zddp additive added to the oil the moment it was gotten after the cams were done before.
I would put my money on no break in running being done, and no assembly lube/zddp being put on the cams for startup.

 

[Vaughan Manders]

Not for me but wow I applaud you for the effort as removal in chassis would be very tight and visibility of some items would be zero but well done.
I would have said not worth the effort over removing the engine but hey again well done.


As for the cams
- Yes oil is very important this is what I use the VW spec oil is wrong for a flat tappet engine nowhere near enough ZZDP.
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/applications/car-4wd/engine-oils/10-tenths-racing-10w-40-pao-ester.
- Use of assembly lube fortified with ZZDP is essential to be used during assembly.
- Initial bedding in of the cams at initial start up is also recommended.
- You are correct for some reason VW decided to use a solid lobe profile on a hydraulic tappet


- If you have any issues with getting a your local colt cams I also have made my Aussie TDI cams for the V10 which are steel billet cams, induction hardened and have a slightly higher lift and duration and of course are a hydraulic profile.
These are superior to the VW cams in every way.


regards
Drag

Hey Drag i am interested in your cams, do they improve performance / economy can you supply the tappets also? what is the cost and time to get them. Mine is an 2004 no problems yet but like to be prepared. thanks vaughan.

 

[Vaughan Manders]

Drag i was told by Penrite to use enviro+C-2, 0w-30 full synthetic in the 2004 v10. Do you think the other penrite oil that you suggested would be better?

 

[dragline1570]

Hey Drag i am interested in your cams, do they improve performance / economy can you supply the tappets also? what is the cost and time to get them. Mine is an 2004 no problems yet but like to be prepared. thanks vaughan.

Vaughan
First thing you do is get an oil sample done by some like this (Techenomics International)
Review that then we can talk cams as you may not need them if you are lucky.
The performance gains from cams in a diesel is not like a petrol car what these cams do is
- last longer than std
- offer a smother idle
- Prepare the engine for a tune

Drag i was told by Penrite to use enviro+C-2, 0w-30 full synthetic in the 2004 v10. Do you think the other penrite oil that you suggested would be better?

Yes what Penrite have recommended is the correct VW spec oil for a T1 V10.
Problem is that 0W30 only has 890ppm of ZDDP.
A flat tappet engine needs at least 1400ppm min but with a PD engine already with vulnerable cams I use the race 2200ppm oil ZERO SHEAR.




Problem is zinc can affect your oxygen sensor and cat convertor over time depending on how much oil you burn.


I don't have cat convertors any more so hey no issue. and I can get at the oxygen sensors to replace if I need to.


regards
Drag

 

[Vaughan Manders]

Thanks Drag, i have deleted the second cats will i have to delete the primary cats to use this oil? i was thinking that they may get hot enough to burn off any deposits, i will change the oil immediately i have done about 5000k on the C-2.

 

[Dpkhym]

Question, with the cams removed you loosened the oil supply li as for the turbo, is it possible to replace those lines in car?

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[Cjensan]

Yes it is, but you will have to pull the fuel filter housing, the intake, and the tandom pumps to do so.
Are yours leaking?

 

[Dpkhym]

Yes it is, but you will have to pull the fuel filter housing, the intake, and the tandom pumps to do so.
Are yours leaking?

The engine oil feed lines are leaking, so there is access to the banjo bolts on the turbos oil feed with everything you said removed?

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[gldgti]

Quizzically, this thread makes me WANT a V10.

I used to own a C5 2.5 V6 TDI allroad. The engine was a brilliant bastard. They also have cam lobe wear issues but it was characterful, smooth, sounded awesome. I rebuilt both cylinder heads in my garage when I owned it after it threw a follower. I miss that car every day.

Now I have this 3.0 V6, which I feel is objectively one of the better engines VW group have ever produced. And yet, I know my masochistic tendencies would leave me writhing in pain on the garage floor, simultaneously in ecstasy if I had a treg with the big nasty V10 to work on.

Whats wrong with me....

Anyway - thanks for posting all those pics, great information and thanks to everyone discussing the oil specs with such depth. I learned something.

 

[Cjensan]

Yes there is access to remove both oil feed lines from above.
Though they are a braided stainless hose crimped on to a steel hard line. I’d be surprised if they were leaking.