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Discussion Starter #1
I posted a thread a few months ago I was having while replacing the valve body in my 04 3.2. I bought some "bad" used valve bodies that were being sold as remanufactured and was having issues. (See previous thread here if interested 04 3.2 Touareg won't move after valve body replacement) I ended up buying a legitimate remanufactured valve body from RevMax. I installed it and it has been shifting perfectly smooth the last 3 months. I put approximately 1000 miles on the touareg since installing the RevMax valve body and there has been no problems. Yesterday I get into the Touareg to go for a drive and it starts out fine shifting through the first 3 gears, then all of a sudden while shifting into 4th gear it "slips" out of gear and just revs like in neutral, then clunks hard into 5th gear. It was driving perfectly fine the day before. I tried driving for a few mins and it seems that every time it shifts into 4th gear it "slips" out of gear. I had to limp back home giving it very low rpms. It seems when trying to go anything above 2000 or so rpms it slips out of gears in 4th-6th gear. For some odd reason it seems to work fine in 1st-3rd gear and reverse. To me it seems like a clear valve body issue. I just cant believe I had another valve body go bad. I haven't taken anything apart yet, the only thing I did was get the trans temp up to 40 or so deg C and remove the fill plug and weirdly alot of trans fluid came out. At least a 1/2 quart I would say. It wasnt dripping out like it should. The transmission level was filled according to spec 3 months ago when I installed the Revmax valve body. I have already contacted Revmax and am waiting to hear back. Anyone have any idea as to what in the hell could have happened besides another valve body going bad?!! This just seems extremely odd to me how it was shifting fine one day and then the next it is shifting like I have a broken valve body again. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Also there are no stored fault codes except a tiptronic switch implausible signal, but I have had that fault for the last 5 years. I am 99% sure that has nothing to do with this issue.
 

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Yeah, that's how things break. One day they still work just fine, and on the next one not anymore. :)

Maybe there are some debris stuck in the valve body chambers. Or maybe one of the clutch discs have worn down just now to a level where it just doesn't have enough grab anymore. Or maybe something else broke. I guess the many runs and tries with the non-working valve bodies didn't help the transmission either.

You could check the valve solenoid current values in MVB 007, 008 of the TCU to see if any of them are off.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes I agree about the bad valve bodies definitely didnt help. I would hope the filter would have caught any debris. I would think that if it was a clutch disc that is worn down it would have started slipping and not engaging into the gear more gradually dont you think? Because it was shifting absolutely perfect on saturday, then the very next day just started having problems. I havent check the solenoid values yet. That's my next step tonight. I talked with RevMax this morning and they said I can send the valve body in for diagnosis and it will be fixed for free if something is wrong with it, but there will be a charge if there is nothing wrong with it. So I guess my next step tonight is check MB values, then drain the transmission pan, inspect for any signs of damage and if I dont see anything I guess I have no choice but to just send the valve body back for inspection.
 

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Yeah, that's how things break. One day they still work just fine, and on the next one not anymore. :)

Maybe there are some debris stuck in the valve body chambers. Or maybe one of the clutch discs have worn down just now to a level where it just doesn't have enough grab anymore. Or maybe something else broke. I guess the many runs and tries with the non-working valve bodies didn't help the transmission either.

You could check the valve solenoid current values in MVB 007, 008 of the TCU to see if any of them are off.
LOL we have this saying at work in our department
"But it worked fine yesterday!"
"And then today came, and it broke.. and now it doesn't work at all :) " lmao
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Checked all of the solenoid values. All read between .99v to 1.0v when idling except solenoid 4 (n91) which was reading .220v. I am not sure what the spec is on those. I did not take the valve body off yet but I drained the transmission fluid and removed the filter and noticed the o ring on the filter is slightly deformed, I'm not sure if this is enough to cause issues and like I said the car was running fine for 1000 miles or so, so I'm not sure if this is related or not. See attached pic. You can see the deformation on the top left corner. Possibly the o-ring got deformed like this when I just took the filter off, but I didnt put any stress or anything on the filter when removing it.
237096
 

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Checked all of the solenoid values. All read between .99v to 1.0v when idling except solenoid 4 (n91) which was reading .220v. I am not sure what the spec is on those. I did not take the valve body off yet but I drained the transmission fluid and removed the filter and noticed the o ring on the filter is slightly deformed, I'm not sure if this is enough to cause issues and like I said the car was running fine for 1000 miles or so, so I'm not sure if this is related or not. See attached pic. You can see the deformation on the top left corner. Possibly the o-ring got deformed like this when I just took the filter off, but I didnt put any stress or anything on the filter when removing it.
I don't think that was the case, because then it wouldn't keep the shape once you've removed it. My guess is that it was pinched that way and exposed to the relatively high heat of the transmission for a longer period of time, and that's why it's now keeping this shape also outside of the stress environment.

That being said I'm not positive that this kind of pinch could have caused the issue you're experiencing. People DO have transmission issues if the O-ring is sitting wrong, but that's from the very first moment on, because the transmission is sucking up air (instead of oil) past by the non-sealing O-ring, and thus is unable to build up the required oil pressure.

Did you inspect the drained fluid and the strainer for any shavings or any other kind of solid parts? Did you find any?
 

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Was the engine running when you pulled the plug and fluid overflowed?

Do you recall how many liters or quarts went in?

What type of fluid are you using?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I don't think that was the case, because then it wouldn't keep the shape once you've removed it. My guess is that it was pinched that way and exposed to the relatively high heat of the transmission for a longer period of time, and that's why it's now keeping this shape also outside of the stress environment.

That being said I'm not positive that this kind of pinch could have caused the issue you're experiencing. People DO have transmission issues if the O-ring is sitting wrong, but that's from the very first moment on, because the transmission is sucking up air (instead of oil) past by the non-sealing O-ring, and thus is unable to build up the required oil pressure.

Did you inspect the drained fluid and the strainer for any shavings or any other kind of solid parts? Did you find any?
I agree, I would expect there to be shifting/moving issues right away if the o-ring was the culprit. I just wanted to post picture of it to be sure. I was hoping to actually find something in the filter or fluid that was possibly blocking flow. But there was no restrictions in the filter, it still looks brand new, which it more or less is, only 1000 miles on it, and there were no metal shavings in the transmission pan. Not even any little specs on the magnets. But obviously they were just cleaned 1000 miles ago.

Was the engine running when you pulled the plug and fluid overflowed?

Do you recall how many liters or quarts went in?

What type of fluid are you using?
Yes engine was running at idle when I pulled the plug. I am using about 5 quarts of Aisin fluid made for the transmission and 2 or so quarts of OEM VW fluid for the 09D transmission. I originally used 7 quarts of OEM, but 3 months ago when I was having issues with using bad valve bodies I ran out of OEM fluid and only had about 2 quarts left when swapping valve bodies back and forth, and I didn't want to spend $150 on fluid 3 times so I bought the Aisin because it was cheaper. It took about 7-8 quarts totaled when it was filled last and I followed normal fill procedure. Fill transmission initially until fluid drips out of fill hole with engine off, then get transmission temp to 35-40 deg C and fill until fluid drips out of fill hole with engine running at idle.

Also I should mentioned before taking everything apart yesterday I tried driving it again just to verify, and I was wrong, it does "slip" out of gear in all gears, 1-6 not just 4-6. With higher rpms it slipped out of 2nd and 3rd gear yesterday when I drove it. I guess I just didnt notice it before b/c I probably wasnt getting the rpms high enough to slip in 1-3 gear.
 

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Hi,
I am not sure about the 09D tranny, but on my current 2014 aisin it is possible to reset the adaptation of the solenoid valves so that the transmission control unit relearns the correct settings. So it was on my 08 VW Phaeton. You had to write a 0 in a specific adaptation channel of the gearbox. That could be done with VCDS.
It migh be worth a try.
Good luck!!

Gabriel
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi,
I am not sure about the 09D tranny, but on my current 2014 aisin it is possible to reset the adaptation of the solenoid valves so that the transmission control unit relearns the correct settings. So it was on my 08 VW Phaeton. You had to write a 0 in a specific adaptation channel of the gearbox. That could be done with VCDS.
It migh be worth a try.
Good luck!!

Gabriel
I have done the re-learn procedure.

I am really debating now if I should take my valve body off and send it back to RevMax, I have a strong feeling that the valve body is going to end up being fine and I would hate to waste the money. They said they would do a valve body check over for $175 plus $80 shipping and if something is wrong with the valve body it will be covered under warranty and I owe $0, but if nothing is wrong with is I would owe them $255. I would hate to waste the money when I just have a feeling that the valve body is not the problem. I find it strange that there was so much fluid that came out of the fill hole when I removed the plug. That is telling me that not enough fluid is getting sucked into the valve body/transmission, no? I ordered a new o-ring and am debating if I should just try installing a new o-ring first and re-fill and try again or if I should just send the valve body in. What would you guys do?
 

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I'd maybe call revmax and explain this as simplistically as possible and ask their opinion of it
 

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With regards to the tiptronic switch fault, it might well be that the fault is now become more serious than before.
I had an ocassional fault on an auxiliary coolant pump on my Phaeton that lasted for years until the pump failed...
Inside the tranny there are a couple of speed sensors. If they send a wrong signal to the TCM, shifting can be impaired. Perhaps you can check both with vcds.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
With regards to the tiptronic switch fault, it might well be that the fault is now become more serious than before.
I had an ocassional fault on an auxiliary coolant pump on my Phaeton that lasted for years until the pump failed...
Inside the tranny there are a couple of speed sensors. If they send a wrong signal to the TCM, shifting can be impaired. Perhaps you can check both with vcds.
I have to disagree with this. It is the same fault for years. I have tried replacing the tiptronic switch, the circuit board, and the magnets. Fault still exists. The touareg shifted perfectly fine for years since I bough it with that fault. Then I started having hard 4th to 5th gear shifts and periodically slipping out of gear in 4th to 5th for about 2 months which is why I replaced the valve body in the first place which lead to all of these issues. Then shifted perfect again like the day I bought after replacing the valve body with the RevMax and now we are here with the problem I am having. I agree whatever the tiptronic issue is, the correct thing to do would be to fix it, but I am very skeptical that the tiptronic fault has anything to do with the problems I am experiencing now.

I'd maybe call revmax and explain this as simplistically as possible and ask their opinion of it
I did, the person I spoke with suggested that it doesn't seem like a valve body problem to them and suggested doing re-learn procedures, check fluid levels, etc, all the basics which I already did. And he just said send it in and they would be happy to look over the valve body and test it.
 

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I did, the person I spoke with suggested that it doesn't seem like a valve body problem to them and suggested doing re-learn procedures, check fluid levels, etc, all the basics which I already did. And he just said send it in and they would be happy to look over the valve body and test it.
Hmm I'd be inclined to take their word for it at this point. Honestly past that I'm stumped and dont have anything worthwhile to offer you. Hope you get it fixed asap though
 

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Hi Crazyquik,

Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the 09D.

I have the same tranny and in December last year did the fluid and filter service on it. With no dipstick and no VCDS I resorted to using a digital thermometer gun to read the temp to ensure it was filled correctly. My sump was covered in metal shavings sludge but managed to complete the service with no issues other than a bad back. Hopefully I can help...

From reading this thread and the original it seems like you have had excellent advice and virtually everything has been covered.but the problem persists. There is a lot of content in both so apologies if I go over something that has already been mentioned.

The problem you had with the clunk going from fourth to fifth hasn't been solved long term with the valve body replacements. Am wondering if it was noticeable at approx 60,000 miles when you bought it or only more recently?

Do you know the vehicle's history before you bought it? Is there anything to suggest that it might a mechanical issue that a new valve body won't fix?

As the clunk was there before and still is now that leans me towards the new valve body being fine and any replacement of it will not resolve this issue. If the problem isn't the valve body then its elsewhere.

From the symptoms you've described the clutch, clutch bearing and fork along with the torque converter are working without complaint. So what's left? A gazillion sensors but no fault code to indicate that one of them is not playing ball.

What about the original fluid that you changed? Not all of it gets pumped out into the manufacturer specified service. Am thinking that the filter couldn't hold all the metal sludge and some has got into every nook and cranny of your system, including the lines to/from the radiator, the thermostat and possibly inside the breather itself.

You have had mixed results with your attempts ie. not working, partially working, working great and not working again. It could be contaminants from the old fluid circulating causing intermittent problems when they get lodged but also allowing the tranny to work perfectly when the gunk frees itself from various crevices. As all the big stuff has been discussed and discounted previously, what else could cause the on again, off again problems?

Also, you mentioned that you have two different brands of fluid in there. As most people will attest to, Japanese trannys work best with their manufacturer's fluid and nothing else and have been known to fail when different brands of supposedly same spec fluid are introduced.

If I was in your position I would do the following:

1. Flush the entire system, tranny, oil lines, thermostat, radiator, torque converter and the breather to make sure that there are no obstructions anywhere in the entire system.
Old time mechanics say not to do this on older automatics but you already have the symptoms they warn about and have nothing to lose.
2. Double check the breather is breathing free and clear. It if isn't, it could have trapped air and fluid high up inside during your service and given a false reading when checking the fill level.
3. Clean the sump and its magnets so they're spotless, again.
4. Install a new filter and o-ring.
5. consider replacing the thermostat unless you can remove it to inspect and verify it is spotless and clear.
6. Use a tranny flush product and don't just flush with clean fluid
7. You could also use a cleaning agent such as marvel mystery oil, seafoam or even research LA's Totally Awesome cleaner. I have used all three products in car engines with excellent results every time. But as this is a tranny and not an engine you should research what's best to use.
*** Totally Awesome is amazing at dissolving carbon buildup in engines so should go through AYF build up like a dozs of
8. When you refill, use only one brand of fluid.
When I did my service I bought the Aisin labelled product from ebay. It took about 9.5 US quarts and that was for a drain and refill, not a full flush. Am damn glad I bought a case of 12.

If this works it's likely that the clunk will still be there but at least you will be back up and running.

Fingers crossed

Phil
 

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Checked all of the solenoid values. All read between .99v to 1.0v when idling except solenoid 4 (n91) which was reading .220v. I am not sure what the spec is on those. I did not take the valve body off yet but I drained the transmission fluid and removed the filter and noticed the o ring on the filter is slightly deformed, I'm not sure if this is enough to cause issues and like I said the car was running fine for 1000 miles or so, so I'm not sure if this is related or not. See attached pic. You can see the deformation on the top left corner. Possibly the o-ring got deformed like this when I just took the filter off, but I didnt put any stress or anything on the filter when removing it. View attachment 237096
For what its worth, I compared my old o ring to yours and have none of the markings you have. Something odd happened in there.
 

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Hi Crazyquik,

Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the 09D.

I have the same tranny and in December last year did the fluid and filter service on it. With no dipstick and no VCDS I resorted to using a digital thermometer gun to read the temp to ensure it was filled correctly. My sump was covered in metal shavings sludge but managed to complete the service with no issues other than a bad back. Hopefully I can help...

From reading this thread and the original it seems like you have had excellent advice and virtually everything has been covered.but the problem persists. There is a lot of content in both so apologies if I go over something that has already been mentioned.

The problem you had with the clunk going from fourth to fifth hasn't been solved long term with the valve body replacements. Am wondering if it was noticeable at approx 60,000 miles when you bought it or only more recently?

Do you know the vehicle's history before you bought it? Is there anything to suggest that it might a mechanical issue that a new valve body won't fix?

As the clunk was there before and still is now that leans me towards the new valve body being fine and any replacement of it will not resolve this issue. If the problem isn't the valve body then its elsewhere.

From the symptoms you've described the clutch, clutch bearing and fork along with the torque converter are working without complaint. So what's left? A gazillion sensors but no fault code to indicate that one of them is not playing ball.

What about the original fluid that you changed? Not all of it gets pumped out into the manufacturer specified service. Am thinking that the filter couldn't hold all the metal sludge and some has got into every nook and cranny of your system, including the lines to/from the radiator, the thermostat and possibly inside the breather itself.

You have had mixed results with your attempts ie. not working, partially working, working great and not working again. It could be contaminants from the old fluid circulating causing intermittent problems when they get lodged but also allowing the tranny to work perfectly when the gunk frees itself from various crevices. As all the big stuff has been discussed and discounted previously, what else could cause the on again, off again problems?

Also, you mentioned that you have two different brands of fluid in there. As most people will attest to, Japanese trannys work best with their manufacturer's fluid and nothing else and have been known to fail when different brands of supposedly same spec fluid are introduced.

If I was in your position I would do the following:

1. Flush the entire system, tranny, oil lines, thermostat, radiator, torque converter and the breather to make sure that there are no obstructions anywhere in the entire system.
Old time mechanics say not to do this on older automatics but you already have the symptoms they warn about and have nothing to lose.
2. Double check the breather is breathing free and clear. It if isn't, it could have trapped air and fluid high up inside during your service and given a false reading when checking the fill level.
3. Clean the sump and its magnets so they're spotless, again.
4. Install a new filter and o-ring.
5. consider replacing the thermostat unless you can remove it to inspect and verify it is spotless and clear.
6. Use a tranny flush product and don't just flush with clean fluid
7. You could also use a cleaning agent such as marvel mystery oil, seafoam or even research LA's Totally Awesome cleaner. I have used all three products in car engines with excellent results every time. But as this is a tranny and not an engine you should research what's best to use.
*** Totally Awesome is amazing at dissolving carbon buildup in engines so should go through AYF build up like a dozs of
8. When you refill, use only one brand of fluid.
When I did my service I bought the Aisin labelled product from ebay. It took about 9.5 US quarts and that was for a drain and refill, not a full flush. Am damn glad I bought a case of 12.

If this works it's likely that the clunk will still be there but at least you will be back up and running.

Fingers crossed

Phil
Phil, without high jacking the thread, will LA awesome cleaner get rid of the carbon buildup in a Golf GTI 2.0 engine and how would you administer it?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hi Crazyquik,

Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the 09D.

I have the same tranny and in December last year did the fluid and filter service on it. With no dipstick and no VCDS I resorted to using a digital thermometer gun to read the temp to ensure it was filled correctly. My sump was covered in metal shavings sludge but managed to complete the service with no issues other than a bad back. Hopefully I can help...

From reading this thread and the original it seems like you have had excellent advice and virtually everything has been covered.but the problem persists. There is a lot of content in both so apologies if I go over something that has already been mentioned.

The problem you had with the clunk going from fourth to fifth hasn't been solved long term with the valve body replacements. Am wondering if it was noticeable at approx 60,000 miles when you bought it or only more recently?

Do you know the vehicle's history before you bought it? Is there anything to suggest that it might a mechanical issue that a new valve body won't fix?

As the clunk was there before and still is now that leans me towards the new valve body being fine and any replacement of it will not resolve this issue. If the problem isn't the valve body then its elsewhere.

From the symptoms you've described the clutch, clutch bearing and fork along with the torque converter are working without complaint. So what's left? A gazillion sensors but no fault code to indicate that one of them is not playing ball.

What about the original fluid that you changed? Not all of it gets pumped out into the manufacturer specified service. Am thinking that the filter couldn't hold all the metal sludge and some has got into every nook and cranny of your system, including the lines to/from the radiator, the thermostat and possibly inside the breather itself.

You have had mixed results with your attempts ie. not working, partially working, working great and not working again. It could be contaminants from the old fluid circulating causing intermittent problems when they get lodged but also allowing the tranny to work perfectly when the gunk frees itself from various crevices. As all the big stuff has been discussed and discounted previously, what else could cause the on again, off again problems?

Also, you mentioned that you have two different brands of fluid in there. As most people will attest to, Japanese trannys work best with their manufacturer's fluid and nothing else and have been known to fail when different brands of supposedly same spec fluid are introduced.

If I was in your position I would do the following:

1. Flush the entire system, tranny, oil lines, thermostat, radiator, torque converter and the breather to make sure that there are no obstructions anywhere in the entire system.
Old time mechanics say not to do this on older automatics but you already have the symptoms they warn about and have nothing to lose.
2. Double check the breather is breathing free and clear. It if isn't, it could have trapped air and fluid high up inside during your service and given a false reading when checking the fill level.
3. Clean the sump and its magnets so they're spotless, again.
4. Install a new filter and o-ring.
5. consider replacing the thermostat unless you can remove it to inspect and verify it is spotless and clear.
6. Use a tranny flush product and don't just flush with clean fluid
7. You could also use a cleaning agent such as marvel mystery oil, seafoam or even research LA's Totally Awesome cleaner. I have used all three products in car engines with excellent results every time. But as this is a tranny and not an engine you should research what's best to use.
*** Totally Awesome is amazing at dissolving carbon buildup in engines so should go through AYF build up like a dozs of
8. When you refill, use only one brand of fluid.
When I did my service I bought the Aisin labelled product from ebay. It took about 9.5 US quarts and that was for a drain and refill, not a full flush. Am damn glad I bought a case of 12.

If this works it's likely that the clunk will still be there but at least you will be back up and running.

Fingers crossed

Phil
The 4th to 5th clunk WAS resolved when replacing with the revmax valve body. After installing the Revmax valve body the car shifted perfectly. No clunks, no slips, no anything. Shifted like a brand new transmission until a few days ago when it started slipping into neutral. As for the fluid. I agree, and I did not want to mix fluids, but after spending over $100 on OEM VW/Audi fluid and then having to drain and refill several times I decided to go with the Aisin fluid. And I would imagine the OEM fluid is what originally came in the transmission but the transmission is an Aisin transmission and I used the Aisin fluid recommended for that transmission so I assumed mixing the 2 fluids wouldnt be a huge deal. And since the transmission has been filled and drained 3 times now over the last 3 months I am pretty sure that I have gotten all of the old dirty fluid out. If I had to guess the fluid in the transmission/valve body right now is probably 90% of the Aisin fluid and 10% OEM VW/Audi fluid. If doing my next step doesn't work I might try flushing with a transmission cleaner.

For what its worth, I compared my old o ring to yours and have none of the markings you have. Something odd happened in there.
I agree. My next step is to change the o-ring. I have a new o-ring on order from the VW dealer and it should be in tomorrow. I am going to try to refill and hope it works. If not then I will have to remove valve body and check for any type of visible damage or debris or anything and decide what my next step will be.
 
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